No, it really isn't. This isn't a slag at Larkin, but frankly, Tavares is performing better this year and has outperformed Larkin every single year prior the two have been in the NHL. He would be the clear 3C on Toronto and I really don't think many neutral fans would argue that.
How good is Larkin?
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Being higher up the lineup brings more offense flowing through you and gets more points. Look at how much Kadri's offense dropped going from 2 to 3C
Larkin does have his ungodly speed though which lets him be in on more defense to offense rush the other way plays
I said performance this year, not previously.
Matthews has been injured half the year with Tavares being the clear 1C. Besides that, I disagree that being a 2C going up against 2nd pairings is harder to produce than a 1C going up against top pairings. Kadri's production has also dropped because of a decrease in quality of linemates.
Despite having significantly worse linemates, Larkin has a 54% CF while Tavares has a 50.4 CF% , with Tavares getting slightly more OZ% starts. I fail to see what opportunities offensively that Larkin is getting that Tavares is not. I seriously doubt Larkin's production would drop being the 2C in Toronto playing with Marner
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newfy
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Lol I dont think theres a single person on the planet that would say Larkin has ever outperformed Tavares prior to this year. Tavares has the track record and an 11 million dollar contract, I'm sure Larkin would be behind him in Toronto. That doesnt mean its not debatable about who is having a better season.
Theyre separated by ~3 points while one plays with Marner and the other is flanked by Abdelkader. Larkins advanced stats are still actually a bit better despite this. Thats with Larkins OISH% at 5% and Tavares at 13%, Larkins PDO much lower as well. So without having close to the quality of linemates/teammates, hes leading most advanced stat categories, hes ahead in faceoff %, and right there in production depsite the fact that shooting percentage and PDO are telling us he isnt getting the puck luck. Larkin just got done dominating Tavares last week actually.
Why dont you explain why its not debatable? Because to me that sounds like there could be a pretty good debate, possibly in Larkins favour even
Guys I'm as big of a fan of Larkin as anyone but let's not start comparing him to top ~ten centers like Tavares after 30 games.
newfy
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As long as you [mod] use those 30 games to say hes going to be for sure better, whats wrong with it?
Me saying its been debatable who has been better this season between them in the 30 games is not the same as saying Larkin is for sure better going forward or that he would play ahead of him in Toronto. I laid out the stats in my earlier post, in the 30 games so far this year Larkin has been arguably better than Tavares. Why cant we say that?
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The Zermanator
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Because some (and I stress, some) Leafs fans are incredibly insecure. It's why threads like 'How good is Larkin?', like so many countless threads on here that have absolutely nothing to do with the Leafs, inevitably devolve into d***-measuring contests.
Larkin's having an amazing season. He's a beast in all zones and he's never stopped improving so no reason to think he's done now. So to answer the question, he's a clear 1C. And a damn good one at that. When comparing to players like Tavares or whoever else, it all comes down to priorities. What type of player do you consider to be the best. Larkin is forming into the Bergeron mold, an elite 200 ft player. He may not be as elite as the Tavares types in the offensive zone, but the question is whether the defensive aspect overcomes that offensive deficit. I think it does. Because Larkin is quickly developing the ability to shut down other teams' top lines. He's done it to Colorado, Tampa, and interestingly, Toronto, this season.
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newfy
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Matter of opinion I guess. I dont really care if other fans are insecure personally. Its a discussion board and its something to discuss. If it becomes a dick-measuring contest with reasonable posts, stats and things like that to back it up. If I tihnk my opinion is right I'm going to try my best to prove it like I did before in this thread. 30 games in right now, hes having imo at worst, a season comparable/prety even to Tavares but gun to my head I can definitely defend the position that Larkin is having a better season than vice versa.
The thread is about how good Larkin is, might as well compare him to other top centers in the league who he is having a comparable season to
The Zermanator
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Of course, I'm just speaking more generally about the tendency for a lot of threads to get completely derailed in a p***ing match between Leafs and Oilers fans, completely obscuring the original point of the thread.
And yeah, I was kind of alluding to that. I think there's an argument to be made for Larkin against many of the game's top centres. Sure a guy that gets 90 pts is great, but how many of those points come against terrible teams, where they just clean up with 2-4 pt nights? Whereas put them up against a centre like Larkin/Bergeron/etc and suddenly they're neutered, and held pointless.
Pit them against each other in a skills competition and sure, Tavares wins hands down. Pit them against each other in a game scenario, and suddenly Larkin's speed, tenacity, and defensive IQ really balances the scales.
I'll say it with an analogy. The Tavares types may be the Supermans of the league, but the Bergeron/Larkin types are no slouches themselves, and they've also got a little kryptonite.
Larkin (Along with some good goaltending from Howard) has been straight up dragging the wings out of the cellar of the league this year. That roster has no business being 14-13-4 right now. (No offense, fans)
In addition to things already mentioned, he's playing almost 22 minutes/night and has been one of the best penalty killers in the league, only giving up 4.6 G/60 shorthanded while on the PK almost 2 minutes each game.
Said it before, but the guy he's starting to most resemble is the guy he was lining up against on face offs tonight that's won a couple cups in LA.
In addition to things already mentioned, he's playing almost 22 minutes/night and has been one of the best penalty killers in the league, only giving up 4.6 G/60 shorthanded while on the PK almost 2 minutes each game.
Said it before, but the guy he's starting to most resemble is the guy he was lining up against on face offs tonight that's won a couple cups in LA.
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Still on 22, close to a PPG so far this year. And playing with not much in talent .. he sets up 4 or 5 plays a game sometimes that should result in goals if he wasnt being anchored by Abdelkader and Helm at certain times this year.
His prime may still be 4 or 5 years away.. fun to watch him develop in the meantime. Had legit concerns for him in his sophomore year.
Funny enough our coach made a stupid decision and decided to line up Glendening against Kopitar for whatever reason. The kings dominated that matchup all night.
Would be nice to see his numbers playing with Kucherov, Stamkos, Hedman, etc. instead of Abdelkader, Helm and Nyquist.
rocketdan9
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Reminds me of our board hyping up Mantha when he had like 20 points his first 25 games last year. Granted, Larkin is a much better player than Mantha, but we need more sample size.
There’s a difference between playing like a top 10 center for a half season and actually being one for 2-3 years
Meh all people are going to remember the next time he hits a cold streak is how he was being compared to Tavares by Wings fans. You do have a point and you can post what you want obviously, but I prefer to not set myself up for ridicule when the inevitable cold streak occurs.
newfy
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If people ridicule about that then theyre idiots though lol. I made it clear I'm not talking abut him being better in the future, I'm saying in these 30 games hes been so good that he can be compared to Tavares. If he hits a cold streak, well that sucks and obviously it will effect how we view his season overall.
Through these ~30 games hes absolutely been a comparable player and it speaks to the type of season hes having though so far. Dont set yourself up for ridicule by making outrageous claims that have a chance of being wrong. Me saying Larkin has been as good or better so far this season has 0 chance of being wrong because it can be backed up
koyvoo
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The guy is playing in the upper half of #1C’s this year for sure.
I was just told he’s Detroit’s #1C because of the process of elimination. Lol. The fact that he has the toolbox of a 1C has nothing to do with it I guess.
I was just told he’s Detroit’s #1C because of the process of elimination. Lol. The fact that he has the toolbox of a 1C has nothing to do with it I guess.
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