How good is Larkin?

SirloinUB

Registered User
Aug 20, 2010
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how many teams is he the best center on?

btw i think hes a great player

Hard to say. Even on teams like Toronto, & Pitt where he'd be designated the "3rd line centre" his ice time wouldn't be that of a 3rd liner. He is the kind of guy a coach can trust in all situations.

Glendening is a 4th line center but its not uncommon to see him play 16 minutes a night matching up against top lines. I'd imagine if Larkin was magically added to one of these teams with elite Centre depth larkin he'd be the "3C" but still playing 20 minutes a night.
 

TheOtherOne

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Jan 2, 2010
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1st for Kyle Quincey. Weiss, Nielsen, Abdelkader (Given NTC), Helm (Given NTC), Howard, Ericsson (Given NTC), Daley, Bernier (3 million per season) Dekeyser (Given NTC), and Glendening were all bad to terrible signings. Trading Jarnkrok and a pick for the corpse of Scott Legwand in 2014. Keeping Trashill for this long too.

He kept the "streak" going after 2013 at all costs. His reward? A team that won 0 postseason series (5 total games) between 2014-2016. He is now by far the worst GM in the league. Or darn near close to it.


Detroit Red Wings - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
5 postseason wins in 3 years is your criteria for "worst GM in the league"? Pretty sure others have done worse...
 

TheOtherOne

Registered User
Jan 2, 2010
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Kind of a tangent, but would it even make sense to keep him as 3C on any team? If you have 3 Cs equal to or better than Larkin, wouldn't it be more efficient to trade one for huge return to fill another hole?
 
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Hammettf2b

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Jul 9, 2012
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Kind of a tangent, but would it even make sense to keep him as 3C on any team? If you have 3 Cs equal to or better than Larkin, wouldn't it be more efficient to trade one for huge return to fill another hole?
Hypothetically say hes on the Pens, you wouldn't trade Crosby or Malkin since their age windows are about the same so that means you trade Larkin. But for what? a couple of lesser pieces? 1for1 deal for a Dman? Hell why not just keep him and put him on Sid's wing?
 

Big Ed

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Feb 5, 2011
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Pretty sure only Chia can lay claim to making more horrendous FA signings. Holland is a bottom five GM.

He's basically destroyed the team. Look at those horrible contracts.
Great hyperbole dude. We have 20 million in cap space this upcoming offseason and 22 the next. Totally destroyed tho.
 
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Ezekial

Cheap Pizza, Bad Hockey
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Pretty sure only Chia can lay claim to making more horrendous FA signings. Holland is a bottom five GM.

He's basically destroyed the team. Look at those horrible contracts.
Over 20 years he destroyed that team move by move.
 

RedHawkDown

still trying to trust the yzerplan
Aug 26, 2011
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Good thing Yzerman is taking over in like half a year. Kind of irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Larkin is a stud and definitely a 1C. Once Zadina is more developed and we get this year and likely
Next years top picks on the team y’all will see
 
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Henkka

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Jan 31, 2004
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Over 20 years he destroyed that team move by move.

That's nice destroying, when you were part of the build on the rise on 80's-90's, and when you win multiple Cups in different Eras. Then you come down, like any other winning GM, when the cap mathematics with salary raises work against you, still after the longest playoff streak on cap environment. :biglaugh: :D :laugh:

It's really fun to compare these Hollands achievements to others.
 

Tetsuo

Boss of a Pile of Rubble
Apr 11, 2018
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1st for Kyle Quincey. Weiss, Nielsen, Abdelkader (Given NTC), Helm (Given NTC), Howard, Ericsson (Given NTC), Daley, Bernier (3 million per season) Dekeyser (Given NTC), and Glendening were all bad to terrible signings. Trading Jarnkrok and a pick for the corpse of Scott Legwand in 2014. Keeping Trashill for this long too.

He kept the "streak" going after 2013 at all costs. His reward? A team that won 0 postseason series (5 total games) between 2014-2016. He is now by far the worst GM in the league. Or darn near close to it.


Detroit Red Wings - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
As has been mentioned, Detroit is out of cap hell after this season. Larkin is signed on a super sweetheart deal going forward which will help when the rest of the new 'core' of Mantha, AA and Bertuzzi need extending (by setting an example for what these players can expect hopefully). Out of all the player's you've mentioned, exactly which among them will still be signed once this team is actually ready to do some damage in the playoffs? Nielsen, Abby and Dekeyser. Heck, even Dekeyser has actually started to play somewhat decently (although still questionable that he's worth $5 mil a season). With the cap going up, I'm not sure how this will hamper the team either extending or signing the requisite UFAs that will turn this ship around.

Other than that, who has Holland really sold too high or too low on in an effort to 'win now' back when the window was still somewhat open? Jarnkrok? A decent 3rd line center. A 1st round pick for KFQ? Tough to say they would have drafted Vasilevskiy at that spot. I've never really bought into the idea that Holland is a terrible GM. I've always seen him as an excellent foot soldier for Illitch's whims. Which at the end of the day, is the role of the GM.

The real reason the 're-build on the fly' did not pan out was because for about 16 years (2000-2016) the Red Wings had horrible drafting/development on defense. Highlights include KFQ and Nick Jensen. This partly due to them picking late (or not at all) in the first round for the entirety of that period, as well as poor luck and general poor development. Even now the defense is still very much a work in progress for the future. We shall see how this situation progresses, but I don't buy that this team is hamstrung in the slightest.
 

newfy

Registered User
Jul 28, 2010
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He had Dats and Z , he should have buillt for the future.
25 years of playoffs without a top 20 pic and a cup in the salary cap era.
Making the playoffs and winning cups when the recent cup winners were doormats.
I can accept the current cap hell, because its imaginary.

Yeah the cap is irrelevant to Detroit right now. Anyone left over making big money from the days of them competing are basically gone in the next year or two. By the time Detroit is ready to make playoffs again they'll have plenty of cap space so it will be irrelevant. I also hate when people say Detroit should've started rebuilding in 2010 (and on top of that blaming Holland). You dont rebuild when you have 2 centers the calibre of Datsyuk and Zetterberg with a number one dman in Kronwall still hanging around. I also really think the order to make the playoffs at all costs came from ownership because Mr Illitch was dying. As soon as he passed away, Holland has been doing a great job at the deadline of acquiring picks. I dont like the contracts he signs players to, but he can definitely make a good trade and had 4 top 40 picks last year, 2 in the first round.
 

LarKing

Registered User
Sep 2, 2012
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Unless he hits a major cold streak, it looks like he’s going to finish the season with 30+ goals and near ppg. Man has he really turned a corner. I remember him saying he wants to be the best player in the league back in his rookie season and it was nice to hear, but he has some serious drive to improve. Reminds me of Crosby where he recognized his weaknesses and just improves them all...really excited to have him on the team for hopefully his entire career.
 
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nbwingsfan

Registered User
Dec 13, 2009
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Minnesota
New Jersey
Columbus
Ottawa
Montreal
Arizona (I think Keller is a winger?)
Vegas?

Just off the top of my head. Might be missing a couple.

Add:
Anaheim (Getz is really slowing down)
Chicago (debatable)
NYR
Carolina (IF Aho plays W)
Nashville (debatable)


So quite a few teams.
 

TheOtherOne

Registered User
Jan 2, 2010
8,265
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Add:
Anaheim (Getz is really slowing down)
Chicago (debatable)
NYR
Carolina (IF Aho plays W)
Nashville (debatable)


So quite a few teams.
Food for thought, what do you call it when, hypothetically, you might call Toews better than Larkin overall in a vacuum, but, hypothetically, Larkin's line matches up very favorably against Toews' line whenever they meet? Or to use an extreme example, consider Glendening matching up very well against Crosby in the playoffs (obviously Glendening is nowhere near the player Crosby is, in case I have to point that out).

This is rhetorical, I don't want an answer for it, I just think it's an interesting paradox to think about.
 
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nbwingsfan

Registered User
Dec 13, 2009
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Yeah, some of those are definitely arguable. I'm pretty sure Aho is a full-time center though.

I dont watch enough of Carolina to know, that's why I put a disclaimer.

Either way, Larkin is only 22 and likely going to pass other C soon as well.
 

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