In what scenario is comparing those two rediculous? Overall body of work up to this point? That's not the the discussion either. The discussion is how good is Kyle Connor. See thread title.
How Good IS Kyle Connor
- Thread starter Skidooboy
- Start date
Exactly. And my initial comments was that we won't know how good Connor truly is until we see him produce with different line mates. That's all I have to say on this subject. You feel free to go on with your narrative comparing Connor to Wheeler though....
I would have liked to see Wheeler produce with different line-mates before paying him $8.25 as he won't or i should say shouldn't (after all POMO is the coach) be playing on the top line much longer as Laine will be replacing him.
So Wheeler has played with Scheifele and Connor for his entire career? Okay
You said it's rediculous to compare the two, I said it's not. There lies our difference. I will continue that "narrative" with or without your contributions. I firmly believe that is on-topic in this thread.
For your information it is against my nature to enjoy anything.
Fair post and "sheltered" is probably too strong. Connor is an amazing player and I'm concerned that with the contract timing, we seem to be setting ourselves up for the worst possible contract
I guess we'll see how it shakes out.
Tommigun
Registered User
- Jan 5, 2018
- 4,822
- 4,960
Or even better, put Ehlers with Scheifele, Connor with Little/Laine and Perreault on the 4th line.
If it leads to a Stanley Cup this season, that's the price you pay to win while your young stars are still on ELCs.Fair post and "sheltered" is probably too strong. Connor is an amazing player and I'm concerned that with the contract timing, we seem to be setting ourselves up for the worst possible contract
Rabid Ranger
2 is better than one
As an "outsider" who follows the Jets a bit I have to say I'm mystified by the narrative that a guy like Connor should be penalized for playing with two elite talents. I'm equally mystified by the call to breakup that line (one of the best in the league) to shoe horn other players (like Laine).
Last edited:
jetsforever
Registered User
- Dec 14, 2013
- 27,295
- 23,236
Your second paragraph is incorrect. CSW was the most sheltered line end of the season. The opponent wanted to play best against CSW for sure, eg. because they were worst defensively. It's not that Maurice did match them against the best competition. That would have been silly, even for Maurice.
CLT is THE tool for Maurice to shelter offensive lines. Simply put: all the other lines are first and foremost sheltered by CLT.
CSW had highest percentage of offensive zone starts, and it's easy to get why. For example Little and Stastny were better at faceoffs than Scheifele. Also towards the end of the season, other lines were better at getting out of own zone.
How is Connor sheltered when compared to his closest comparable Ehlers? Connor plays with the two best veteran forwards Jets have, Ehlers is playing as a "veteran" with two rookies (not sure if Roslovic is an official rookie anymore).
Where CSW did shine last season and I guess will shine also this season is their offensive zone play which is like a nightmare for the opponent. Connor is excellent on that. On the own zone CSW and esp. Connor is often too exciting to watch. They ensure maximum amount of goals for the both ends...
If they didn't need to shelter Connor anymore, Ehlers could replace him in CSW and no-one would notice. Connor would then try with Roslovic and why not also with Laine.
I think it is almost guaranteed Connor gets bridged to help keep costs down in the short term. It's got to the point where top players coming off their ELC's either get bridged or you pay them like UFA's as if the RFA years no longer exist. So you might as well get a couple cheap years and then pay what the player wanted 2 years prior. In the Jets case it will also help clear out some salary. Very high profile players like Laine still need the long term otherwise the distractions become too great.Fair post and "sheltered" is probably too strong. Connor is an amazing player and I'm concerned that with the contract timing, we seem to be setting ourselves up for the worst possible contract
- Jun 10, 2014
- 57,331
- 29,083
Put Ehlers with Scheif & Wheeler, KC with Little & Laine. Seems pretty obvious to me. Perreault with Rosie.
The argument is that Connor is too good with Scheif to do that. 3 games in we would be reading here how Ehlers and Scheif can never be separated again. Meanwhile, Connor is just the tonic to get Little going and unleash the Laine.
The worst that could happen is that Connor slows down a bit and Chipman saves a few mil.
- Jun 10, 2014
- 57,331
- 29,083
Great job putting that together. I won't be altogether surprised to see Laine take less than what many are forecasting but I'm not sure it will be as low as $8.5. I wish for that but have just about zero expectation of that. I really don't see them bridging Laine, they just won't take that chance.
Connor on the other hand is in my mind the wildcard. I don't know how he feels about being here as he's largely flown under the radar with Laine's arrival. Does he like it here? Is winning more important than a huge salary? And what if Laine puts up 50 but Connor puts up 40? He's getting PP1 time, playing top line, it's not inconceivable given his hands and linemates. How do you ask a 40 goal scorer to take $6? All of these guys have egos, so if Marner is getting $8 how is Connor going to feel about a $6 offer? Probably pretty insulted. Honestly I look at the Toronto situation with Nylander and can't believe they actually publicly stated players should take a discount to play for Toronto. Uh, no, not happening. Now I do think Nylander should get a contract roughly what Ehlers % of cap is, whatever that works out to in current dollars. It's less than his ask but more than the rumored offer. I also think that Marner is going to be tough to sign next year for them. Basically Winnipeg and Toronto are in the same boat in many ways, we just got lucky with Ehlers and Scheifele signing bargain deals. My guess is they bridge Connor out of necessity and to buy some further time to clear the books but heaven help us if Connor pots another couple of 30+ goal seasons while on a bridge (which based on Trouba's ridiculous award might be $6 anyway).
I guess I'm just a little less optimistic in terms of how this is all going to work out. Let's say Laine takes $9.5 and Connor wants $7.5. It's nice to point to Ehlers and Scheifele's relative bargain contracts but we can't realistically expect either Laine or Connor to take home team discounts, it's just not the way it works in reality. Those discounts are the exception rather than the rule.
Our cap problem isn't quite as big as TO's, but it is close. If Laine waits until after Matthews signs, and I think he will, Matthews gets 12 so Laine gets 11. Never mind 8.5.
If Connor scores 40 and a bunch of assists he is going to get close to 8, 7.5 might do it. But if there is a bridge first it will hit 8. That's if he scores 40. But even with a consistent mid 30's through his bridge he might get there. And I don't think there is much choice about the bridge.
I didn't like Connor when he was just a skinny kid tearing up the USHL and now that he is threatening the very fabric of the Jets Cap plans with his 8 million a year contract demands I can see I was right . He's no good. 
PS. I am not related to WEhlers.
PS. I am not related to WEhlers.
Connor has dominated at every level he's played at. There's literally no good reason to think he wouldn't drive any line he played on in the NHL. That said, he's still young and filling out, so that might still be a year or two off.
As I mentioned in the other Connor thread, I'm 100% confident he's going to develop into an elite stud and I trade any other forward not named Laine or Scheifele before I trade him. He'll be worth every penny of 8 million by the time he's in his late 20's.
DeepFrickinValue
Formally Ruffus
- May 14, 2015
- 5,289
- 4,159
Or trade him after this season and his 40 goals. Pump those tires.
Can’t keep everyone.
