How freakin dissapointed should I be?

[Spooner]

I think, for the most parts, us Pens fans feel slighted for not getting Ovechkin because it seems like while Washington and Columbus tanked into their spots, the Penguins almost fought out of theirs. We had to suffer losing our franchise's Living Legend to injury, losing our best player to Cape Breton, a prolonged losing streak, and then worrying about falling out of the top pick while our team finished 12-5-3 in their last 20 following that streak.

It was a painful as hell season. More painful than any other team in the NHL. I guess we Pens fans just felt that after such a toturing season that we deserved something for it, that we should get some kind of reperations from the hockey Gods.

Only time the Pens got coverage all season was during the losing streak. ESPN was overjoyed to cover that, but give some pub to thge more than surprising bounceback? Nah.

Meanwhile, the Caps shipped their best players and played their AHL goalie trying to get into our spot. Unfortunately for them, the Pens couldn't rise fast enough to get out of their way. But they get rewarded anyway.

The Pens were the only bottom dweller to improve their team throughout the year. Ric Jackman, Jon Sim, Lasse Pirjeta, and others were added to the roster, while dead weight and underachievers were shipped off, for the sake of winning.

Bring up 1984 all you want, but the Pens did all they could to untank themselves out of the top spot this year. They're a much more win-oriented team than your pre-concieved notions would lead you to believe.

 

[schultjr]

It sounds like what you are saying is.....if a team decides to dig deep into their pockets and pay for expensive players.....they can never go back and start over.

For years the Caps had hard working teams that were good enough to lose in the playoffs....the finally decided to make a run after an elite player so they would have "that guy" who could score the big goals.....they added to that after it didnt work.....and when that didnt work they decided it was a big mistake and they would start over......you blast them them for "not following through on his commitment"......something the Rangers have stuck to for over half a decade....without success......and you blast them too

Its pretty clear you just dont like these teams and you are letting that get in the way of seeing what were smart moves.....

No, it is smart. I am responding to the question of why I said "anyone but the Caps." As I have pointed out, the Caps started rebuilding with 20 games left in the season, the Pens started 3 years ago. Now, it seems wrong that the Caps should get such a top flight prospect instead of any of the other lottery teams, who have been rebuilding for much longer. I agree with the Caps wanting to start over, I just wish that they did not solve one HUGE problem of getting a franchise player so soon after starting to rebuild. It takes most all other "rebuilders" much longer. Thats all I'm trying to say. If the Rangers would have won the lottery this year, I guarantee most of this board would be crying. The Caps are not the Rangers, but they are a lesser version of them.

By the way, to whoever claims that the Caps have the same number of fans as the Pens: look at the number of posts in the Pens board (almost 22,000) and look at the number in the Caps board (about 5,000). I realize that this does not prove much, but I think it is worth taking into account.

 

[Brad Tolliver]

The Pens didn't have much veteran talent on the team anyway, so just about anyone they brought in this year could have improved with increased playing time, as was the case with Jackman.

Last I checked the Pens were free to trade away all their stars at once, but they decided to do it slowly, and not getting much in return for those stars either. You are essentially saying the Caps doesn't deserve the first pick because they did a better job of rebuilding.

 

[Chimaera]

No, it is smart. I am responding to the question of why I said "anyone but the Caps." As I have pointed out, the Caps started rebuilding with 20 games left in the season, the Pens started 3 years ago. Now, it seems wrong that the Caps should get such a top flight prospect instead of any of the other lottery teams, who have been rebuilding for much longer. I agree with the Caps wanting to start over, I just wish that they did not solve one HUGE problem of getting a franchise player so soon after starting to rebuild. It takes most all other "rebuilders" much longer. Thats all I'm trying to say. If the Rangers would have won the lottery this year, I guarantee most of this board would be crying. The Caps are not the Rangers, but they are a lesser version of them.

By the way, to whoever claims that the Caps have the same number of fans as the Pens: look at the number of posts in the Pens board (almost 22,000) and look at the number in the Caps board (about 5,000). I realize that this does not prove much, but I think it is worth taking into account.

I'm confused... You sound as if, having to wait 3 years for a shot at a top flight prospect is a required right of passage.

That, a team should have to be bad for a number of years before they get a shot at a good prospect.

If that's the case, I think you're nuts. The Penguins have had just as much shot at the top pick (actually a greater shot percentage wise) as anyone else.

The Penguins are still getting a great player.

On the fan note, the Caps have outsold the Penguins as far as attendence, (at least from what I can recall) for the past few years.

 

[schultjr]

I'm confused... You sound as if, having to wait 3 years for a shot at a top flight prospect is a required right of passage.

That, a team should have to be bad for a number of years before they get a shot at a good prospect.

If that's the case, I think you're nuts. The Penguins have had just as much shot at the top pick (actually a greater shot percentage wise) as anyone else.

The Penguins are still getting a great player.


On the fan note, the Caps have outsold the Penguins as far as attendence, (at least from what I can recall) for the past few years.

I am not saying its a right of passage. I am just angry and envious (as I said in my earlier post) that the Caps are being rewarded so soon into their rebuilding process. A rebuilding process that started only because a team filled with all-stars underachieved. By all accounts, the Caps should not have been in the lottery this season.

I am confused as to how trading away players at the same time qualifies as a better job of rebuilding. The Caps have not been in a rebuilding process for more than 20 games. I would hardly call winning the lottery a better job of rebuilding. It was sheer luck. Also, I would not say that, even with Ovechkin, the Caps are going to be better than the Pens any time soon. I do not think the Pens future is bleek at all. I am just backing up my point as to why I would rather anyone else have won the lottery except the Caps.

Also, caps attendance should be higher than the pens the last couple of seasons, because, as you pointed out, the pens have been bad lately, but the caps have been playoff contenders most years with many star players (Mario has been hurt most of the last couple of years, so don't bring him up). Also, Washington is a bigger city than Pittsburgh, so higher attendance should be expected.

I can see that I have differing opinions than some people here, so I will not bother to respond any further on this topic. I am just responding to a post from a Penguin fan's point of view on why I say "anyone but the Caps" when it comes to winning the lottery.

 

[flyercide]

What happened 20 years ago happened 20 years ago, leave it there.

Most of us weren't even alive when that happened.

man that makes me feel old. i remember when mario was a rookie.. cant believe it was 20 yrs ago!! :attn:

 

[flyercide]

i would be pretty upset being a pens fan... living through this season & not getting the top pick. i mean isn't what washington did tanking the season? they traded half their team.. they werent thattt bad before the dump to warrant them getting the top pick. just as bad as 84 if u ask me.

 

[flyercide]

oh and if i remember correctly bunch of teams were trying to tank that season.. pittsburgh just did it better than the rest. since so many teams tryed the nhl tryed to put stop to it happening again.

 

[Mothra]

i would be pretty upset being a pens fan... living through this season & not getting the top pick. i mean isn't what washington did tanking the season? they traded half their team.. they werent thattt bad before the dump to warrant them getting the top pick. just as bad as 84 if u ask me.

not sure what you are saying.....but as far as this season..the Caps were terrible all season.....and finished up right about where they were in the satndings all year

 

[graywolfe81]

Still don't get it

Why anyone but the caps? Well, lets start with the fact that your owner is an idiot. He foolishly spends tons of money on players, then realizes what a bozo he was and basically gives them away. Also, he punched a fan. Then there's the fact that you had a team of all-stars THIS YEAR. Jagr, Lang, Bondra, Gonchar, and Kolzig are all-star material. You should not have been one of the worst teams. When your team underacheived, you gave away your players, called up multiple minor leaguers, and proceeded to lose many games. Of course, being a penguin fan, there is the whole rivalry, "i hate the caps," factor, I'll admit. Not to mention Ovechkin will be lost in Washington, who, in my opinion, has very few loyal fans, evident by the 50% penguin fans in the MCI center, even when the caps were good. Don't take this to mean that there are no loyal fans, because I know that is not true. Just a few of many reasons that I say "anyone but the Caps."

Foolishly spends $? How is that a criticism? He wanted to build a winner. He thought the one thing the Caps lacked then, and in the past, was top draw offensively minded talent. It fit in w/his marketing and w/what he felt was our one major weakness. He was wrong, it happens. Last year the team chokes in the playoffs for the eightieth time and is even worse this year w/the team not responding at all to the young coach, or to his replacement, a new CBA that could dramatically shift the pay scale in the league could be around the corner and the Caps are losing cr@ploads of money because when they aren't choking in the playoffs, they're missing the playoffs outright. Fans aren't showing up, your losing money, a lockout is around the corner, your one of the worst five teams in the league. So hell, keep all you're hugely salaried players, all deep into their thirties that can't beat Colombus, or Carolina let alone Ottawa and New Jersey. Do you realize how nuts that is? Of course they were traded, the team had missed the playoffs now in two of the past three years and was just getting OLD. The owner did the one smart thing he's done all along. Recognized that he couldn't win w/somewhat old stars and a disinterested fan base and decided to go young building on the prospects that have been accumlated over the past handful of years with more prospects.

That's not stupid, that's smart. If there's no season next year, how smart is it to have a roster chockful of hugely paid mid-thirty year old stars who couldn't get the job done in '03-'04 just gathering age while there is no season? Instead, what wasn't working was abandoned, a small core of relatively young, hard working players were kept, and an already good farm system was stocked w/even more quality youngsters, and a bevy of draft picks came in to help build around.

When you're old, and you're expensive, and you suck, it's time to go younger, cheaper, and better and that's what the team's doing, or at least trying to do.

As for the punch? It was silly, stupid, and moronic at best, but on the other hand why should I care? If an owners swings at me or you, or tries to choke us? Particularly a fat slug like Ted, why not swing back, he instigated, so drop his fat arse. All i know is that it's completely irrelevant to what's going on out on the ice so who freaking cares? Its a red herring, irrelevant, and you know that, but chose to throw it in with the litany of other complaints you have about the Caps. I could care less. I care about what the Caps are doing to get better, not about the temperment of our owner (which is a damn site more interested than absentee Pollin preceeding him). Hell, maybe we can get a nice double bill w/the battling front office boys in friday night fights, we already know that GMGM likes to throw, at Chicago anyway.

What are team "should have been," is irrelevant, what it was was what is relevant. A tiring, slow, aging squad w/some poor coaching and probably the worst ground of defensemen in the league and no money to address the need (at least according to the owner). There was unlikely to be any improvement, only regression as the team further aged. And really what are you building for? If you want to win the cup, the team as constructed and paid would never do so, and if what you were trying to build for was the playoffs, well that hadn't happened for two of the past three years so that wasn't consistently happening either. I don't see a problem w/what they did, they cut their losses and refocused on rebuilding rather than retooling a roster that wouldn't be getting us anywhere near the Stanley Cup.

As for the Penguins rivalry, it's not exactly Red Sox-Yankees, as neither team has accomplished all that much, and at least the Red Sox have made it to their share of World Series. The Caps made it only once, no doubt because Pittsburgh went down to Montreal that year. I just don't see any reason for Pitt fans to hate the Caps. How can you hate a team you get over on so much, at least historically? Doesn't make sense to me.

As for loyalty? I'm sure Pittsburgh has more, they have a less transient population, but they also generally don't generate all that much money for their franchises. I could be wrong, but I don't think of Pittsburgh the same way I do about where I live (the bay area), or even other less productive city and suburb economies. Pittsburgh will have their loyal fans, but the franchise isn't exactly financially stable. While the Caps aren't exactly generating a lot of ticket sales, they do have an owner w/huge pockets, and a city that supports winners. If the team wins, sales will increase, not as much as if say the Boulez suddenly and inexplicably started winning, but still there would be sales.

Pittsburgh didn't deserve Ovechkin, and neither did Washington or Colombus, Ovechkin was simply going to go to whomever was luckiest or NY if they had been bad enough ( ). Pittsburgh wasn't lucky, Chicago wasn't lucky, Washington was. Sometimes you get the breaks, sometimes you don't and the Caps just got perhaps the biggest and one of the only breaks they've ever gotten. I wouldn't complain, you've got two Stanley Cups, and have had the priviledge of watching Lemieux, Francis, Jagr, Straka, Kovalev, and so many other studs play together for so many years, something few other fanbases have ever been lucky enough to have. I wonder if part of that loyal fan base you've got may have something to do w/the amazing players you've had and playoff successes, I think it just might. Don't you? If you'd had a relatively anonymous collection of hardworkers that annually choked away 3 and 2 game playoff leads perhaps you're fans wouldn't be quite so willing to pay, and pay in great numbers to see you're squad every year. Just a thought.

Regardless, I think the Washington fanbase might finally start growing now, hopefully anyway, and beyond that, good luck w/Malkin, and if all goes well and you're franchise survives the potentially culling, maybe we'll both have two of the best squads in the east a handful of years from now.

 

[graywolfe81]

The tanking argument doesn't fly with me either. The Caps sucked in October, November, December and all of the winter and early spring of 2004. They didn't tank, they SUCKED. I suppose some of you guys weren't watching. They were complete cr@p w/the studs and pretty cr@ppy w/o them. Tanking for Ovechkin doesn't make a lot of sense because there was NO way to know that the Caps could somehow climb out of the glut of teams that were piled into that same mid-fifties point range 10 days or so before the season ended. Pitt had pretty close to a lockdown on the best lottery odds, than there was the pile up. Quite clearly the franchise felt that the team needed to bring together it's youngsters in order to get them to gell. Much better to try and make a run w/the pirates, and get the newly acquired players, and some of our newly brought up prospects time to work together as a team, particularly in playoff atmosphere if possible, granted it's AHL playoffs, but it's still a chance to play for something AS A TEAM. The team built for the future, and then tried to give their future as much of a chance to play together as possible w/the lockout and the future in mind. The present was lost, it was time to build for the future.

Tanking? The season was already done, how can cr@p tank, when it's already cr@p to begin with?

 

[graywolfe81]

No, it is smart. I am responding to the question of why I said "anyone but the Caps." As I have pointed out, the Caps started rebuilding with 20 games left in the season, the Pens started 3 years ago. Now, it seems wrong that the Caps should get such a top flight prospect instead of any of the other lottery teams, who have been rebuilding for much longer. I agree with the Caps wanting to start over, I just wish that they did not solve one HUGE problem of getting a franchise player so soon after starting to rebuild. QUOTE]

I really doubt you've been paying attention to the Caps. The truth is, the Caps first began to crumble in '97, but a few very good players, guys like Gonzh and Kolzing and Bondra w/some decent support around them managed to drag them to the playoffs a few times after that but the cracks clearly showed up then. That's why the Caps first started making their concerted attempts at rebuilding in '99 w/the bevy of draft picks draft. They acquired a boatload of draft picks to build around and did a pi$$poor job of it though they didn't realize it at the time (Beech, Sivek and Lupaschuk haven't amounted to much, right?), but their team managed to make it to the playoffs again in '00 and in '01 and Ted figured perhaps the team just needed a player that would make those around him better and would draw focus to him and sell tickets. Hence Jagr trade. Woops! Team still stinks, and is absolutely wretched in '01-'02. W/Lang and Jagr the team finds its way back to the playoffs in '03 but clearly the quick collapse against Tampa is a sign that this team isn't very good, and is just getting older.

If you look at the caps, you see terrible years in '96-'97, '98-'99, '01-'02, and '03-'04, two of the past three seasons, and four of the past eight, and the progression appears to be towards further aging and even worse play considering how bad two of the past three seasons were. The fact is, our rebuilding may have been disjointed, but a clear effort to rebuild Washington begain in the early spring of 1999. It's only Ted's deep pockets, the surprising '99-'00 rebound, and his desire to build the Caps brand name in the city, rather than actually rebuild the franchise that delayed a full rebuilding process.

But the facts are there, the Caps have traded several players, for several early draft picks in two of the past three seasons, and three of the past six. It didn't just start this year, it started w/the blown '99 draft, and began in earnest with the '02 draft and continues today. The Caps may not have been suffering for as long lately as the Penguins, but the team has been in a rebuilding process since 2002 at the very least and probably much longer if not for Leonsis' efforts to market the team, and if necessary through perhaps foolish quick fix measures.

I actually give him credit. He saw he made a mistake, admitted it, and started doing something about it. I much prefer recognizing problems and dealing w/them, rather than continuing year after year in throwing money at problems that can't be effectively addressed that way.

Besides, if I saw the lottery statistics correctly, the fact is, nobody had a lockdown on the pick, if NBA and previous NHL draft lotteries are any predictor its pretty impossible to predict who will actually land it, since reshuffling to some degree nearly always occurs.

 

[stardog]

If the Caps were 10th in salary, it isn't a far cry from 15th, which would be the middle of the league. They are much closer to the average salary than they are the highest. That's what I was refering to.

The Pens and Caps have arrived at similar situations by different paths, but I don't quite understand your post. On one hand, you seem to be saying that Leonsis is spending a ton. At the same time, you say he had the resources to keep his players but didn't. Would it have been better for him to spend more money for the same players that weren't winning?

From my understanding it seems that he is saying both. Which is certainly true in this case.
He DID spend a ton, and then he refused to do so later.
It really shouldn't be all that confusing given they happened in different time frames.

A bit misleading. You are claiming the Pens have been looking for all-star player for 3 years, yet last year they had Lemieux, Straka, Kovy, Hedberg, and Tarnstorm. 2 years ago, you can add Lang to that list.

Yes and the difference is that the Pens were pretty succesful with the players (in question-Lang/Jags) that they had up until 2 years ago.
The other difference is that the Pens did not have the luxory (and this is the main point I am trying to make) of being able to keep these players while the Caps did have the financial wherewithall to keep thier all stars. If we had the deep pockets of other teams then there really wouldnt be a beef probably, as IMO we would be in the playoffs and pretty succesful.

The Caps and Pens both missed the playoffs in 01-02. The Caps still had a higher average attendance.

Aint rebuilding grand.

Personally, I could care less that the Caps won the lottery. Or if it was Chicago or whoever.
I am simply dissapointed that the Pens did NOT win. Anything after that is all a moot point.
And I think that the word "deserves" should be stricken from the record in any conversation. I seriously do not think one team deserves a chance draw more than any other.
I could list alot of reasons why the Caps arent deserving, or Colombus, Chicago and Phoenix. I could list reasons why the Pens don't as well.
In fact, you can list reasons why ANY team doesnt, but it simply does not matter.
It is all subjective reasoning and opinionated thoughts.
Who really CARES about these reasons when pertaining to what is deserved and what isnt. I wouldnt want the order set up by a panel based on subjective reasoning.

Basically, do the Caps DESERVE that #1 pick? Not even close. Are they in the position to get that pick unfairly (going by the assumption that they don't deserve it)? Hell no. Should that prevent a team from getting it? No way.
The lottery the Caps won was simply the luck of the draw. And no one team is more deserving than any other based on the lottery system. On ice issues (or off ice ones)shouldn't come into play in this arena to back a point of who is more deserved of the chance to pick first.
When we are talking about the word deserved when it comes to hockey, it should be applied to only matters that are under ones control.
Such as this team DESERVED to win that game because they worked garder. Or that player DESERVED that suspension because he grossly broke the rules.
Not "this team deserves a certain random number to put them first in the draft order because the other teams have more off ice issues, and because our teams fans have suffered longer than thiers".

And I should mention that you can substitue the team "Capitals" above and replace it with any other.

The Caps definatley do NOT deserve the #1 pick.
Neither does any team. There are simply to many ambiguous and subjective arguments that come into play to make an edjucated guess as to who both deserves and doesnt deserve the pick.
No team deserves it any more, or any less than another.

 

[stardog]

Good lord you must be the biggest Rangers fan out there, since they have been "building" their team exactly the way you like it for the past few years, despite missing the playoffs everyone of those years. Guess what, if Lemieux didn't mind losing tons of money like Leonsis did, he could have kept all his stars too, instead of losing all of them without even getting a single 1st round pick in return. If you knew anything about your own team you would know the Pens got themselves a future all-star last year, some goalie by the name of Marc-Andre Fleury. Just because the Caps got Ovechkin doesn't mean they will be good right away, even these guys with franchise potential need time to develop. Nowdays there is no point building an entire team around one guy anyway, the successful teams are the ones with depth, which the Caps appear to have. Nobody prevented the Pens from picking up key pieces of the future in the draft the past three years.

Guess what.
Mario simply doesnt HAVE the money you are talking about.
That is a joke to even make the comparison IMO, and I seriously think you know better than that.

And while they may NOT have gotten the first round picks as you eluded to, they DID get guys who WERE high first rounders very recently.
IMO, it is ALMOST the same thing.
They also got some very solid prospects. So lets judge the return that the Pens got for what it is. Meaning give it a few years before you rip them apart dude. And meaning lets also not look at it black and white and take into account that his hands were severly tied when making these deals.
There is a grey area in there.

 

[stardog]

Craig Patrick and Mario Lemieux were. That year is one of the main reasons there is a lottery. Quebec did it a few times as well.

And they had a hand in it how?

 

[stardog]

Actually, i hate the rags. In fact, your assumption makes no sense. How have the Rags been building "the way I like it." They did the exact same things as the Caps this year, only worse. They had a team of all-stars, traded for more all-stars, were still horrible, and proceeded to trade away all-stars. If any team actually "tanked" the end of the season, it would be them. Lemieux never signed Jagr, Lang, etc... to huge contracts. He did not have a choice but to get something, no matter how small it seemed, for his players. Leonis signed these players and did not follow through on his commitment. Yes, the Pens got a goalie last year, but what is still missing on their team is an all-star forward. The Caps had at least 3 before they went on their firesale, and an all-star calibre goalie to boot. The Caps made stupid monetary decisions, went for a quick fix, and were rewarded. The Pens have been building for a few years now, never, that I can remember, made a big foolish signing, they have a bad season, but show heart down the stretch. Yet, the Caps win the lottery. It is almost the same as the Rangers winning the lottery, and we know how much most people hate them. Their situations are really similar, but the Rangers far more extreme.

Lets be honest here though.
If we are able to use the monetary issue as a valid reason for supporting our arguments in this (and many others) thread, then we must also not use it as an excuse.
The reason they never made a big, foolish signing was because they werent in the financial position to do so.
While it is speculative of course, who is to say that, if given the chance financially, they wouldn't have.
Because Lord knows, they made a few small foolish signings over the last few years as well.

 

[GodZillaAteMyZamboni]

By the way, to whoever claims that the Caps have the same number of fans as the Pens: look at the number of posts in the Pens board (almost 22,000) and look at the number in the Caps board (about 5,000). I realize that this does not prove much, but I think it is worth taking into account.

You are right, it doesn't prove much. There are a handfull of guys on the Pens board who probably account for 75% of the posts all by themselves.

 

[stardog]

I think, for the most parts, us Pens fans feel slighted for not getting Ovechkin because it seems like while Washington and Columbus tanked into their spots, the Penguins almost fought out of theirs. We had to suffer losing our franchise's Living Legend to injury, losing our best player to Cape Breton, a prolonged losing streak, and then worrying about falling out of the top pick while our team finished 12-5-3 in their last 20 following that streak.

Maffy was our best player on some nights but I wouldnt say he was our best player consistently enough at the time of his demotion to say he was our best player this year.
I can think of a few who are more deserving of that compliment IMO.

It was a painful as hell season. More painful than any other team in the NHL. I guess we Pens fans just felt that after such a toturing season that we deserved something for it, that we should get some kind of reperations from the hockey Gods.

I honestly didnt think it was all that painful. And I certainly think alot of teams had more painful seasons. The Caps being one of them.
I would think that, as a fan, it is more painful to have high expectations at the start of a season, and then watch the team you love underachieve almost every night.
Or a team like Atlanta, whose heartbreak is well documented from before the start of the season.
Or a team like LA, who saw what looked to be a great team not only suffer through another injury plagued year, but then worked hard and fought even harder, only to miss the playoffs. And considering how hard they worked all season, and what they over came over that span, to come that close and come unwravled at the end, would be much more heartbreaking than what our team had.
Our expectations were low from the start. It was hard to see them lose this much, but it was also expected. And given that the Pens success this year was never about winning, but developing and building for the future, our season was both fun and nowhere near a disapointment.

Only time the Pens got coverage all season was during the losing streak. ESPN was overjoyed to cover that, but give some pub to thge more than surprising bounceback? Nah.

Meanwhile, the Caps shipped their best players and played their AHL goalie trying to get into our spot. Unfortunately for them, the Pens couldn't rise fast enough to get out of their way. But they get rewarded anyway.

The Pens were the only bottom dweller to improve their team throughout the year. Ric Jackman, Jon Sim, Lasse Pirjeta, and others were added to the roster, while dead weight and underachievers were shipped off, for the sake of winning.

Bring up 1984 all you want, but the Pens did all they could to untank themselves out of the top spot this year. They're a much more win-oriented team than your pre-concieved notions would lead you to believe.

This all depends on how you look at it. The Caps certainly did not upgrade thier current roster, but they definatley upgraded thier future one.
And given that there current roster was going nowhere, with less than a month left, why WOULD they try to upgrade it?
Why NOT get a solid return for what will be a rebuilding process?

 

[stardog]

The Caps lost many games before the trades, and arguably played better after. They were behind the Pens in the standings for much of the year. It was only a collossal, near record-breaking collapse by the pens that allowed the Caps to pass them.

Actually, no they werent. The Pens were behind the Caps when the losing streak started and behind the Caps for almost the entire duration of the season.

 

[stardog]

Cry me a river my friend

And when logic fails you, and when there is no valid response, throw out insults. Thanks for contributing your wisdom to the thread. It was much needed.

 

[stardog]

You are right, it doesn't prove much. There are a handfull of guys on the Pens board who probably account for 75% of the posts all by themselves.

A) On one hand you are saying that it doesnt mean much and on the other you are speculating as to the reasons?

B) That IS speculation and I highly doubt that the # is even CLOSE to 75%.

C) It means nothing at all like you said. I would gather though, that ba television ratings over the last decade would provide a better barometer, given that all things are closer to equal (not taking into accounts such intangible subjectives such as, soze of city, wealth etc.). I think that is a much more fair (while not entirley accurate) scale to weigh fan support on than a given message board.

 

[GodZillaAteMyZamboni]

Actually, no they werent. The Pens were behind the Caps when the losing streak started and behind the Caps for almost the entire duration of the season.

After looking at the standings, you are correct. The losing streak started Jan. 13. when the Caps had a 1 point lead. It was actually 5 days prior to that when the Pens were ahead of the Caps.

What's not true is that the Pens were behind the Caps for the duration of the season. The Caps were below the Pens for last part of Oct and all but the final two days of Nov. In Dec and the first week or so of Jan. they were tied much of the time, with each team leading a few times by a point of two.

The point is, it's absolutely false to say the Caps tanked to try to get into last place. They were there the whole season. The only real separation came during the Pens losing streak.

 

[HabsYounGuns]

Obviously, as a huge Pens fan, I am really dissapointed in the results of what I like to call, "Judgement Day".

On the Pens board I am seeing alot of people really having alot of faith in Malkin.
Perhaps the cynic in me is just believing they are trying to rationalize so that they aren't dissapointed as I am over losing AO.

So...the question for those of you in the know on the two of them....exactly how dissapointed should a Pens fan be realisticly?

Who has seen them play enough to offer solid judgement?

Can Malkin be as good as AO one day, as I am reading on the Pens board?

Is there a HUGE drop between the two of them?

Thanks....


dissapointed unbiased stardog

The sadest thing for you Pittsburg fans is how Fleury choke when it count! He failed at the WJC and just failed again with Cap Breton against an Average Chicoutimi team! Cap Breton was favorite with Gatineau to win the title in the Q even before Fleury came back from the NHL!

This kid looks extremmely immature and althought he is highly skilled, I personnally doubt he is mentally strong enough to become a top goalie in the NHL!

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

The sadest thing for you Pittsburg fans is how Fleury choke when it count!

I didn't know they had a team in Kansas.

http://www.pittks.org/

Did some research, and they don't have a Pro team.

He failed to the WJC and just failed again with Cap Breton against an Average Chicoutimi team! Cap Breton was favorite with Gatineau to win the title in the Q even before Fleury come back from the NHL!

This kid looks extremmely immature and althought he is highly skilled, I personnally doubt he is mentally strong enough to become a top goalie in the NHL!

Fleury didn't want to play in the WJC.

Fleury didn't want to go back to Jrs.

He made the best of an uncomfortable situation.

People are just looking for reasons to bash him because of the WJC, eventhough he had asked not to be sent there.

Calling a 19 year old goalie, who just the year before was the star of the WJC, a bust, is as comical as it is ridiculous.

 

[graywolfe81]

I didn't know they had a team in Kansas.

http://www.pittks.org/

Did some research, and they don't have a Pro team.



Fleury didn't want to play in the WJC.

Fleury didn't want to go back to Jrs.

He made the best of an uncomfortable situation.

People are just looking for reasons to bash him because of the WJC, eventhough he had asked not to be sent there.

Calling a 19 year old goalie, who just the year before was the star of the WJC, a bust, is as comical as it is ridiculous.

Couldn't agree more. Give Fleury time, and we'll see what he's made of. Particularly at this level there are a manifold of unknowns to deal with. Blaming everything on Fleury for any result right about now seems a big stretch to me.

Thanks to Stardog for bringing reason and logic to the debate and conversation in the thread. I couldn't agree more w/his point of view, even though I can't shake my Red Sox/Cubs on Ice analogy for Caps playoff play (and that's a stretch considering that at least the Red Sox make their share of World Series' from time to time) in my own posts.