Forlov's point is clear and I completely disagree with it. One playoff win in four years is sad no matter how you slice it. The Kings need something big to move back into contention. Maybe it will come thru the draft or free agent signing but if they roll with this years team next year expect them to regress.
How far away are the Kings from contention?
- Thread starter Chruceg
- Start date
Raccoon Jesus
Todd McLellan is an inside agent
Again, I'm just pointing out that it's pretty clearly a point-of-view mentality thing. It's fair to look at the bad side. It's also fair to wonder aloud how bad it is when other teams are also getting similarly rolled. Maybe in a different style, but let's not forget SJ let in more goals in one game than we did in an entire series. Are they really in a more enviable position somehow?
Herby
Now I can die in peace
Luc Robitaille - “We may have been swept and only scored 3 goals the entire series, but we did lose to the champs, so that means we are really close”
And it will be taken hook line and sinker.
And it will be taken hook line and sinker.
Frolov 6'3
Unregistered User
the rest of us ?
Speak for yourself.
Moral victory, Carter healthy for the RS, what are you talking about anyway ?
No my point was not clear to you at all. Not saying there are no shortcomings, just not as bad as some make them out to be.
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RJ,
Your kind but I don't think anyone is worshipping me well yet lmao
But seriously, it's always been a point of view thing, Boston has had the same success in four years, Chicago same success, SJ same, etc yet naysayers will say Kings are in a worse position because on discussion boards and simulation games, 1st round picks and prospects are much better than older, proven players
johnjm22
Pseudo Intellectual
- Aug 2, 2005
- 19,607
- 14,912
I think the Kings need to get to a point where they can roll the top 3 lines.
Kempe-Kopitar-Brown
Pearson-Carter-Vilardi
Iafallo-xxxx-Toffoli
Clifford/Reider-Thompson/Amadio-Lewis
If the Kings can acquire a good third line center and move Kempe into a LW spot, the lineup starts to balance out IMO.
Kempe-Kopitar-Brown
Pearson-Carter-Vilardi
Iafallo-xxxx-Toffoli
Clifford/Reider-Thompson/Amadio-Lewis
If the Kings can acquire a good third line center and move Kempe into a LW spot, the lineup starts to balance out IMO.
deeshamrock
Registered User
Given the use of 'champs', I'm hoping he was being factious. Because they aren't close. And I agree that the expectations posted at the start of the thread, for potential goal totals next year was conservative, which is good. But I totally disagree on the idea that 30 more goals makes the Kings contenders. It takes a whole lot more that goals to be a contender, scoring is just one small part. Lots of teams have finished top 5 in the regular season and fizzled in the playoffs.
The are a good team, with Vilardi and a couple other shining promise players in the wings, but poor decision making and drafting by DL over the past several years, weakened their farm system. A healthy and deep farm system, is a key to success. I've lived thru that in Philly , for 25 years when Bob Clarke, Synder and HOmer mismanaged just about every area. Hexy has done a fine job making key moves to attain multiple draft picks and now they have gone from worst Farm System in the NHL to one of if not the very best. It not only helps to have talent developing for your team but as chips in a trade. But It has taken a few years , due to how thread bare it was when he took over.
I think Luc and Blake were given the job because of a similar issue and are very well aware of how important building thru the draft is. Amadio, Iafallo, LaDue , Kempe all nice pieces and have done and should do fine. But they are not top league prospects, just the top Kings prospects and there is a difference. Vilardi is the real deal, a genuine blue chip top 6 forward. But like any forward who is a top 6er, in order to grow and develop, you need to play in the top 6, get the key minutes in every game situation. Playing him 10 min a game in the bottom 6, that won't help him. Better to have him 18 -22 in the AHL, letting him game grow. But if he shows in training camp, he can handle centering the 2nd line, with a savvy vet like Carter on wing, he'll do fine. He's gonna make mistakes, all rookies do, let him learn from them.
For the Kings to be a legit contender, they need more than a handful of elite players. Quick, Kopi and Doughty all tops in the NHL at their position. But that hasn't done anything over the last 4 years when they've failed. A legit contender has to be better than the competition. And for the last 4 or more years, they've not done that. Regular season far too many times trailing midway thru t he 3rd and playing pants on fire for the last 10 min to tie and go to OT.
That's not what good teams do, good teams need to be consistent. Stevens is a good coach but he's changed (style wise) since I saw him behind the bench in Philly. He has absorbed a defensive front created by Terry Murray and continued by Sutter. And some of the players over that time , drafted for and acquired, reflected that. But the NHL now is a much faster league, which smaller skilled players. and the Kings just aren't fast enough to keep up shift after shift (something Brown alluded to, see quote below) And don't underestimate the rule changes that have taken some of the physicality out of the game.
What the Kings evolve into and what path they take to get there is up to Luc and Blake. I think they aren't' dumb, they see the success around them , they need to be aware of skill among the competition.
Those teams around them, in the div and conf. they will be making changes too. Some of them have deep pools, have drafted better , over the last few years . So they have some distance to make up.
You cant' rush that process. Having good scouts, drafting well, turning the barren field into rich farmland again, is a key.
So I think being a contender, winning 4 of 7 in division and con. to get to the SCF, is several years away.
But, then I read Bob McKEnzie's comment on Jeff SKinner being moved and the price to acquire being a steep, high one. And then he said the Kings were very interested. If that is the case, then they are attempting to speed up the process. I love skinner (although his multiple concussions would be a worry) but he's got one year left. So that is trading for a rental, which I am against. Skinner, will chose to sign where he wants next year, Just playing for the Kings for 1 yr, won't ensure him signing an LTC in the 7-8M x 8 range in LA. So that 'high price tag' Bobby mac mentioned, that is a huge risk. And whoever goes the other way, that leaves more key holes in the lineup.
But maybe a part of their rationale is fear that another year w/o success spells DD leaving.
Brown post season in LA KIngs Insider on the Kings inability to have sustained time and pressure in the opposing teams zone, and the lack of goals that resulted (in the knights series but that is a pattern they've fallen into for the last few years)
Wrapping up end-of-season coverage; more from Dustin Brown (+ video) - LA Kings Insider
". I think probably the biggest thing is we didn’t generate, we didn’t have waves of attack, we had one good shift and then another four or five minutes and then another good shift where when you’re on your game as a group, as a team, you just wave after wave and that’s when you get the sustained pressure and eventually a goal breaks through. We had one or two good shifts and then we never maintained that pressure."
Raccoon Jesus
Todd McLellan is an inside agent
Skinner has been linked to the Kings for what seems like forever, too. I'll be miffed if we acquire him if for that reason alone...why wait till a year left, you know? heh.
KingsHockey24
Registered User
- Aug 1, 2013
- 14,152
- 12,501
Kempe can't go on another 30+ game goalless drought, Pearson needs to put up better than 15, and we'd need to see significant improvement over Iafallo's 9 goals.
johnjm22
Pseudo Intellectual
- Aug 2, 2005
- 19,607
- 14,912
I don't think Kempe would have another goal-less drought that long if he was playing on the top line.
There's certainly a lot of IF's in the lineup.
If...
Kempe takes the next step and becomes 20g/30a producer
Vilardi can have a 20g rookie campaign
Toffoli can return to his 15/16 form
Pearson can score 20g+ again
Brown & Carter can be productive again even though they'll both be 34
Voynov comes back
Brickly is good right away
Amadio or someone else becomes a good third line center
Kopitar can score at a ppg pace again
If all those things happen than we might have something, but that's a lot of ifs. The more ifs your team has the worse they are.
The Tikkanen
Pest
I think the Kings are two top 6 left wingers away from contention.
Mystery player-Kopitar-Brown
Mystery player-Carter-Toffoli
Iafallo-Kempe-Vilardi
Rieder-Thompson-Lewis
I think you're gonna see Pearson packaged at the draft, Rieder being RFA is a tough call but he's 25, he's fast and had a 11.8 shooting percentage in his time with the Kings. Sign a free agent as #2 LW, gives the Kings a lot of flexibility with the 3rd line all capable of playing top 6 minutes (hopefully in Vilardi's case). Trading Pearson, Clifford and I think Martinez is included in the previous mentioned package saves the Kings 9.35 million. Then you need to give LaDue a deal, Mitchell and Folin walk. Obviously I'm not a GM and cannot say this is gonna happen, just my opinion of what the Kings NEED to do in order to contend. Status Quo is death for me, would be a huge mistake to reward a team that slept walked through a good chunk of the season and 4 playoff games. Slow starts, no swagger, no identity, needs to be changed with a major trade and a free agent signing.
Mystery player-Kopitar-Brown
Mystery player-Carter-Toffoli
Iafallo-Kempe-Vilardi
Rieder-Thompson-Lewis
I think you're gonna see Pearson packaged at the draft, Rieder being RFA is a tough call but he's 25, he's fast and had a 11.8 shooting percentage in his time with the Kings. Sign a free agent as #2 LW, gives the Kings a lot of flexibility with the 3rd line all capable of playing top 6 minutes (hopefully in Vilardi's case). Trading Pearson, Clifford and I think Martinez is included in the previous mentioned package saves the Kings 9.35 million. Then you need to give LaDue a deal, Mitchell and Folin walk. Obviously I'm not a GM and cannot say this is gonna happen, just my opinion of what the Kings NEED to do in order to contend. Status Quo is death for me, would be a huge mistake to reward a team that slept walked through a good chunk of the season and 4 playoff games. Slow starts, no swagger, no identity, needs to be changed with a major trade and a free agent signing.
Just curious, what team doesn't have IFs?
Even Tampa and Vegas will have a LOT of IFS next year,
Vegas
IF...
Karlsson can continue his insane shooting percentage
Marchessault is really a PPG player
They can rely on Theodore as a #1 D
Fleury continues to play out of this world
Tampa
IF....
Point can continue
Johnson can regain his form
Palat can regain his form
Stamkos doesn't get injured
Vasikevlsy doesn't get tired....
etc etc etc.....
Every team has IFS going into a season
Don't necessarily disagree with you, but take a look around and plug in realistic names etc,
You will see it's much harder to happen in real life
johnjm22
Pseudo Intellectual
- Aug 2, 2005
- 19,607
- 14,912
So then....whats the point?
I agree with you, the less Ifs you have, the more, but every team has the same amount of IFs,
With LA, its Kopitar, Brown, Carter,
VGS its going to be, Karlsson, Marchessault, Theodore
TB its going to be Kucherov, Stamkos, Point
TOR its going to be Matthews, Marner, Reilly
WPG its going to be Laine, Connor, Ehlers
etc etc,
Not saying you did, but to try and say the Kings aren't this because of ifs or or that because of ifs, to me, there's no end result from that,
The Kings are contender if Kopitar, Carter, Toffoli, and Brown all get 50 goals next year,
The Kings aren't contenders if Kopitar, Carter, Toffoli, and Brown all get 50 POINTS next year,
It just seems a silly way to judge a team...
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
- Apr 6, 2006
- 32,357
- 11,191
Many of the Kings had either their best seasons offensively ever, or close to it. I don't see it happening again. This team simply is not deep enough. Every year there is a key injury which is the reason why they don't come through. It will happen again the same way.
lumbergh
It was an idea. I didn't say it was a good idea.
Has anyone bothered to put down a good definition of a contender? No one even knows what one is. You know it when you see it?
You can say that about any team though, that is why this argument doesn't make sense,
Tampa didn't make the playoffs the year Stamkos was injured......
Vegas doesn't make the playoffs without SEVERAL players having career years etc...
The arguments you are making, can be made against EVERY team in the league, you realize this right?
I was trying to do that with my opening post. A top five goal differential makes you one of the top teams in the league. Take a look at the standings on nhl.com, switch to see the whole league then sort by goal differential. Every year the top teams have the best goal differential and vice versa. The really nice part is that the to goal differentials are fairly consistent season over season. Tops being right around 60ish and number five being around 45 or so.
This is why I like to look at how many more goals the Kings need to be competitive. An additional 30 goals this past season would have given them the best goal differential in the league. When you look at it that way the Kings really are one elite player short. But with with Vilardi coming up next season replacing a player that scored less than five goals we need only one above average player to make the 30 goal number. We are so much closer than the majority of this board thinks.
I strongly disagree with this post. Look at the numbers that I presented in the opening post. I fully agree that Kopitar had a career year. Lewis certainly did as well. Brown was back to his consistent 30-30 production from the cup runs. But who else? You make it seem like everyone we had was playing out of their mind but we still fell well short. This was not the case. Carter was hurt. Tofolli was off his career best. Pearson was well below. It was Iafallo's and Kempe's first year. That's every forward that scored more than ten goals. We get Vilardi and one more the Kings could be the class of the West.
As to your point that there is always an injury that causes us to miss, my counterpoint was that we don't need that player the whole season. What the Kings needs to do is to make the playoffs, have top six forward health, top four defenseman health, and production equivalent to a top 5 goal differential team come playoff time. Which is totally plausible.
The numbers just don't support the idea that the Kings are miles away.
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
Can the Kings start over as an expansion team and play for the Cup next year?
The Tikkanen
Pest
SlimCharles
Kings & Sabres
Also we lost every game by just one goal and one in 2OT. We weren't blown out, that series was a grind. When Doughty got suspended I figured we were ****ed and that was indeed the case.
Raccoon Jesus
Todd McLellan is an inside agent
Just like Kopitar's career was over after last year right?
Saying things so definitively is really my only beef with your post though.
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
- Apr 6, 2006
- 32,357
- 11,191
...and you know I never said Kopitar's career was over after last year, right? I know it's one of the favorite tactics around here by some to completely misrepresent what people you don't agree with have posted.
What I have posted:
Kopitar will likely have a big bounce back season. He did.
It won't matter because the Kings don't have the depth and are paying too much in cap hit to too few players.
As Kopitar ages his performance will decline. It is inevitable.
If you can't define where you are, and where you want to go, nothing happens. It's been four years, and the Kings have a SINGLE win in the playoffs. Our vaunted core everyone seems to think is among the best in the NHL has crapped the bed in the two playoff series they have appeared in over the last four years.
Soon, unless Doughty doesn't want to re-sign with the Kings, they will be paying two players somewhere in the neighborhood of $21M a season. That approach hasn't worked for a single team.
Sorry the facts don't jive with your hopes.
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