How far are you willing to see the owners push their agenda?

Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by Oi'll say!, Dec 11, 2004.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
View Users: View Users
  1. Oi'll say!

    Oi'll say! Read this now!

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2002
    Messages:
    12,341
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Tradesman
    Location:
    Oil in 9
    Home Page:
    I don't want to get into the technicalities of Luxury cap vs salary cap vs linkage but I was wondering what side people are on, if any.
     
  2. Isles72

    Isles72 Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    3,689
    Likes Received:
    119
    Trophy Points:
    156
    Location:
    Canada
    I was mentally prepared to lose a 1/2 season , however , I think it will take losing the entire season to get their point across that they want ''cost certainty'' .
     
  3. Steve L*

    Steve L* Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2003
    Messages:
    11,548
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Southampton, England
    Home Page:
    I would have voted for "until impasse" is declared but instead went for 3 seasons or more.

    It has to be fixed or the NHL is done.
     
  4. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    22,416
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Home Page:
    A deal should be done within the next few weeks. The NHLPA offer isn't perferct, but it certainly provides a major framework that a deal can be created upon.
     
  5. Kid Canada

    Kid Canada Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2004
    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    To add to that, I believe that both sides realize (even though they won't say it) that losing a full season will kill about 3-6 markets. The NHLPA doesn't want that for obvious reasons, and the NHL doesn't want that because they want a 30 team league to work out quite badly; which I don't agree with.
     
  6. Oi'll say!

    Oi'll say! Read this now!

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2002
    Messages:
    12,341
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Tradesman
    Location:
    Oil in 9
    Home Page:
    I only held faint hope for a half season of hockey but the two sides have come further than I expected. I'm still expecting to lose this season though, 60/40.

    It will be interesting to see if there's a big difference between how long the small market fans and big market fans are willing to see the lockout last. It's a public poll so we can see who voted for each option ;)
     
  7. Cujo_31

    Cujo_31 Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Messages:
    688
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Canada
    Home Page:
    however long it takes to get a hard 40 mil salary cap with good revenue sharing, with the 4 year entry level contract, $850,000 max. base salary & $850,000 max. in bonuses that the PA is offering.

    i voted for 3+ seasons.
     
  8. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    22,416
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Home Page:
    The NHL is very much against significant revenue sharing. The NHLPA is much more for revenue sharing than the NHL owners are.
     
  9. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    22,416
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Home Page:
    If it takes a 2nd year the NHL will already be done. It's already on the brink in the US.

    The big news of the NHLPA proposal was on page 10 of the USAToday sports section, and was barely mentioned on major all-sports radio stations in New York and Philadelphia.
     
  10. Oi'll say!

    Oi'll say! Read this now!

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2002
    Messages:
    12,341
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Tradesman
    Location:
    Oil in 9
    Home Page:
    If there was no lockout half of the teams would have been done anyways. And there's no point in just doing a half job this time around, the nhl can't become known as the league that shuts down evey ten years.

    Is nhl hockey ever mentioned on major US sports talk shows? I know Rome never talks about it.

    The nhl can come back in two years, it's not like fans will forget the sport exists. If there's linkage between revenues and salaries the owners will be making money too and that's kind of important. The players have made enough of it.
     
  11. FLYLine27*

    FLYLine27* BUCH

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2004
    Messages:
    42,410
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    PO
    Location:
    NY
    Whoever voted 3+ seasons...YOUR NOT A TRUE FAN OF THE GAME! How could you say..yea i dont mind watching hockey for 3 years as long as I get my cap. Wow!

    Flame me, I dont care but your not a true fan. The most I could understand a fan to say would be a year and half but 3 years!? Im shocked.
     
  12. IceDragoon

    IceDragoon Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2003
    Messages:
    3,871
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    semi-retired consultant
    Location:
    South of Sanity
    Home Page:
    As long as it takes to get it right, or my team will be gone.

    But then...

    I believe that the players are being short-sighted in refusing to link their salaries to revenues.
    I think that the players should be partners with the owners; and share in the responsibility of improving the game, expanding the fan base and growing revenues.
    there's potential to make much more money for everyone

    If they ever smarten up and realize that working together accomplishes more than working against each other...
    ... I can see 32 sustainable franchises in the not-too-distant future.
    then maybe a 'wildcard' playoff round'
    top 4 in each conference have home ice and the by
    5 thru 12 play best-of-3 for the right to be the road team in the 1st round
    only 8 of the 32 teams would have hopeless fans at the end of the regular season
    A little hope goes a long way...
    into the wallet
    :D

    But then...

    I'm just a fan, so, what do I know?
     
  13. Potatoe1

    Potatoe1 Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2004
    Messages:
    764
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    74
    I agree, that's insane.

    There are some very irrational people here. People seem to have become co committed to one side or they other that they would sacrifice their own enjoyment to see the side they have chosen win.

    3-years are you kidding me?

    That would destroy this league.
     
  14. djhn579

    djhn579 Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2003
    Messages:
    1,747
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Tonawanda, NY
    I'm a big fan of the game. I'm also not a child. I can wait when I 'm reasonably certain that the end results will be worth waiting for. I'm shocked that some people on here are so fixated on seeing games that they put blinders on and pretend there are not some major problems that can, and possibly will, result in teams folding. Or just as bad, want to maintain the status quo where some teams can constantly bring in new players through trades because many other teams can't bring in enough revenue to keep up with the highly inflated salaries. I'm even more shocked that people can call themselves fans yet not care if teams fold (maybe they are not NHL cities... what BS!)

    I'm willing to wait as long as it takes to resolve the problems. I doubt it will take more than two years, but as long as it takes was not an option given...
     
  15. Potatoe1

    Potatoe1 Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2004
    Messages:
    764
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    74

    You think that all teams can survive without any revenue for 3-years?

    These teams have, staff to pay, lease obligations to fufill, debts to service, and other business that are conected to their NHL franchises. There is a heafty cost asociated with not playing.

    And what exactly will the revenues even look like after the fan base has been so badly damaged by a 3-year lay off.
     
  16. IceDragoon

    IceDragoon Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2003
    Messages:
    3,871
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    semi-retired consultant
    Location:
    South of Sanity
    Home Page:
    Excuse me???
    I was a fan, long before you were a twinkle in your daddy's eye.
    I just happen to understand that sometimes you have to tolerate some pain, in order to get the right gain.
    And, I remember how the last "quick-fix" worked.
    My favourite game needs to be fixed.
    No matter how long it takes.
    And I will be back at the rink, whenever that happens.
     
  17. FLYLine27*

    FLYLine27* BUCH

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2004
    Messages:
    42,410
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    PO
    Location:
    NY
    Please, your just so upsest with have a EVEN playing field that your willing to give up hockey for as long as it takes to get it..talk about greed. Heres a note...at least half the teams would be gone after 3 years...including your OILERS that cant hold on to a player and then blames the system. :rolleyes:
     
  18. PecaFan

    PecaFan Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2002
    Messages:
    8,939
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    141
    Location:
    Ottawa (Go 'Nucks)
    Home Page:
    Yup. I've been watching the game 50 years, waiting 3 is nothing.

    I must admit I'm surprised at the poll so far. 60+% voting for 1.5 years to 3 years.
     
  19. McJadeddog

    McJadeddog Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    14,992
    Likes Received:
    297
    Trophy Points:
    154
    Location:
    Regina, Saskatchewan
    in all honesty.... who frickin CARES if the league survives in the states?? certainly not anybody that i know, and i live in hockey-crazy western canada.... once this gets fixed the canadian fans will be waiting and frothing at the mouth for NHL to come back.... if it doesnt get fixed, then the only NHL team that will left in canada will be the leafs.....then the rest of canada will turn its attention to a different hockey league, and the NHL knows it cant let that happen, because without canada, there is no NHL.....simple as that

    so yes, im willing to wait as long as it takes for this to get fixed.... even if it takes 5+ years, because i have lots of other entertaining hockey to get me by in the meantime with our junior leagues
     
  20. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    22,416
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Home Page:

    Without US $$$$$$$ the NHL is toast. End of story.
     
  21. no13matssundin

    no13matssundin Registered User

    Joined:
    May 16, 2004
    Messages:
    2,870
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Theres no need to flame you. Your rhetoric flames itself. What you and other pro-PA cant seem to wrap your heads around is that you cannot seperate the game from the economics. Sure, I want to see the game. I want to have hockey back. But the economics are messed up beyond words. So much so that if they continue, the game I want to see will end: you see, FlyLine, the NHL is a business. It uses hockey to produce revenue. It remains in existance because, up to this point, there has been a positive revenue stream and a profit. But now, because of bad management from the league, overspending by the owners, overpayment of the players, and a massive decay of the quality of the game, that profit is drying up and if the status quo remains, will disappear. With it will go the owners, the people who pay the players and the teams we the fans cheer for. It happened to the USFL, it happened to the WHA, it happened to many other league because of mismanagement and out of control spending.

    It also doesnt matter who brought us here. Guess what: the owners did. They caused this whole mess. The PA also helped it along. All sides are guilty; much more so the owners. So, with that in mind: WHO CARES. Were here now and, guess what, the same people who brought us here just noticed that their massive lack of control is bad for business... thus, for their own gain, they want to fix it. The good news is that out of their greed is our gain... they dont want to liquidate the league and cut their losses, they want the league to grow and succeed so they can make money... and us, the fans, get the benefit of a healthy econominc system that guarentees a long livelihood of the game we love...

    But ONLY if it makes sense for the business to continue.

    If it doesnt, then the league is dead. DEAD. Theres no ifs ands or buts. IT WILL DIE, FLYLINE. If you dont get any other point made on this board, get that one: IT WILL DIE.

    No More Stanley Cup.
    No More Rangers.
    No More Nothing.

    So, understand that while your short-term desire to see hockey is applaudable, you are missing the point that all of us who are willing to wait 5 or 10 years to see hockey again are on about:

    We are willing to miss out on hockey for 2, 3 or 5 years so that our children can see NHL hockey 20, 30 or 50 years down the road. And if you are a real fan, as you claim, you should put aside your hatred for Bettman, take off your blinders and recognize that, while he is the one that helped bring us to this point, he is ALSO the only one who is championing to save this league... for you, for me, for our kids and grandkids.

    Bettman is not the enemy this time: The status quo is.

    It must change or else you and me will be debating economics on the NBA boards...

    cause there wont BE an NHL.

    I hope you'll consider this.
     
  22. gmdevils

    gmdevils Registered User

    Joined:
    May 17, 2002
    Messages:
    770
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Home Page:
    Don't tell me what kind of fan I am...
     
  23. djhn579

    djhn579 Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2003
    Messages:
    1,747
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Tonawanda, NY
    That was not the question. I answered about how long I was willing to wait.

    Is it possible that some teams will fold if there is not hockey for 3 years? Of course. But so far as I know, no team has dipped into their $10M contingency fund yet (not that the will tell us anyway...), and most teams are owned by people with enough other business deals going that they can hold out a lot longer than the players can.

    Think about it. There are teams that intentionally overspent to build and keep a winner. Those teams are okay for quite a while. There are many teams that have been in debt for many years already. I'm sure they can hold out a few more years, especially when they know that a much better system will be put in place, a system that will allow them to compete on a more financially even playing field.

    I don't think it will take more than two years though, but we will see...
     
  24. IceDragoon

    IceDragoon Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2003
    Messages:
    3,871
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    semi-retired consultant
    Location:
    South of Sanity
    Home Page:
    Who are you to say you know what my emotions and motivations are?

    Oh wait...
    You can tell the future, so you must be able to read my mind and, therefore, know my motivations.
    Now you're telling me that the reason my team had to let some marque players go, was because they are inept, or, at the very least, didn't feel like paying "fair market value".
    And, it had nothing to do with the fact that most hockey players are grossly overpaid because their value is tied to other grossly overpaid hockey players.
    Thank you for enlightening me.[/sarcasm]
    :shakehead
     
  25. FLYLine27*

    FLYLine27* BUCH

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2004
    Messages:
    42,410
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    PO
    Location:
    NY
    See there NOT. They are bad yes, but your SO PRO-OWNER anything...and i mean ANYTHING that Bettman saids you buy. Its pointless debating with people like you. :shakehead You think the only way the NHL will live is with a CAP..well when the sides do agree without a CAP..you will look like the idiot who followed and went by every word Bettman has said.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"