JimmyApples
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- Sep 24, 2021
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How dumb was the Marleau contract by Toronto?
- Thread starter JimmyApples
- Start date
- Oct 10, 2007
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Toronto probably would have drafted a different player.
Deadpool8812
Registered User
- Feb 10, 2018
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Just as dumb as the Flyers signing Lecavalier to that contract when 90% of the league knew he was cooked
Michael Farkas
Celebrate 68
This doesn't seem like a HoH thread. Also, the ex post facto inclusion of who the draft pick became is always silly to me.
BraveCanadian
Registered User
- Jun 30, 2010
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It was obviously a terrible contract the moment it was signed and imo his "mentorship" rubbed off in all the wrong ways on the young star players.
I'll never understand why Toronto keeps on bringing in guys who have never won a thing to mentor the players they hope will.
I'll never understand why Toronto keeps on bringing in guys who have never won a thing to mentor the players they hope will.
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
The Panther
Registered User
Oilers did a somewhat similar thing when they signed Duncan Keith in 2021. But at least they got a fairly successful playoff run out of it, and then Keith did everyone a solid by retiring, rather than forcing them to pay him big money for reduced minutes (or buying him out).
Jimmy Firecracker
Fire Sheldon.
Obviously he would've needed to have wanted to sign here, but Justin Williams was a free agent at the same time as Marleau and signed for cheaper and fewer years in Carolina. I would've gladly paid him Marleau's AAV for two seasons instead.
I think Babcock had undue influence on the Marleau signing, having been a team Canada guy who Mike knew and had coached previously. I'm also of the opinion that Marleau and his bag chasing ways throughout his career poisoned the well with regards to Matthews and Marner.
In Toronto's defense, they couldn't have anticipated a pandemic affecting how the 2020 concluded. They were probably anticipating that pick being in the 20s. When the season ended abruptly the pick would have been in the #18-20 range.
If I recall correctly, another team (Columbus?) was willing to do the deal but their owner balked at paying the 3.83 million buyout for a likely late 1st round pick.
Unfortunately for the Leafs, they lost the play in round and the pick ended up being higher than expected. They were able to get the #15 pick later that summer for Kasperi Kapanen (RIP Rodion Amirov). It's possible they wouldn't have taken Jarvis at #13. Predraft rankings:
Jarvis: [TSN: 18 | SN: 19 | HP: 7 | ISS: 29 | CB: 23 | THN: 16 | CP: 12 | SW: 14]
Holloway: [TSN: 16 | SN: 15 | HP: 29 | ISS: 20 | CB: 14 | THN: 13 | CP: 22 | SW: 18]
Amirov: [TSN: 19 | SN: 17 | HP: 23 | ISS: 16 | CB: 19 | THN: 30 | CP: 16 | SW: 20]
Everybody gives Edmonton flack for giving up the pick that became Matt Barzal but they weren't going to take Barzal (they would have taken Joel Eriksson-Ek). Meanwhile the Kings gave up a slightly higher pick and nobody gives them grief because Boston used it on Jakub Zboril. But the Kings would have taken Barzal according to former AGM Mike Futa.
And that just comes with the territory with a new GM. Lou signed Marleau to the deal in 2017. Dubas was elevated to GM a year later. Not the best comparison, but I bought a house where the previous owner had painted the master bedroom Pepto Bismol pink. I had to spend money to undo what they did.
Edit: Had my memory jogged that Lou had to clean up his own mess and gave up a 2007 1st rounder to dump Vladimir Malakhov's contract. That pick changed hands again and eventually netted David Perron. Devils likely would have taken somebody else had they kept the pick. It wasn't ideal but that was the price of undoing a mistake.
If I recall correctly, another team (Columbus?) was willing to do the deal but their owner balked at paying the 3.83 million buyout for a likely late 1st round pick.
Unfortunately for the Leafs, they lost the play in round and the pick ended up being higher than expected. They were able to get the #15 pick later that summer for Kasperi Kapanen (RIP Rodion Amirov). It's possible they wouldn't have taken Jarvis at #13. Predraft rankings:
Jarvis: [TSN: 18 | SN: 19 | HP: 7 | ISS: 29 | CB: 23 | THN: 16 | CP: 12 | SW: 14]
Holloway: [TSN: 16 | SN: 15 | HP: 29 | ISS: 20 | CB: 14 | THN: 13 | CP: 22 | SW: 18]
Amirov: [TSN: 19 | SN: 17 | HP: 23 | ISS: 16 | CB: 19 | THN: 30 | CP: 16 | SW: 20]
Everybody gives Edmonton flack for giving up the pick that became Matt Barzal but they weren't going to take Barzal (they would have taken Joel Eriksson-Ek). Meanwhile the Kings gave up a slightly higher pick and nobody gives them grief because Boston used it on Jakub Zboril. But the Kings would have taken Barzal according to former AGM Mike Futa.
And that just comes with the territory with a new GM. Lou signed Marleau to the deal in 2017. Dubas was elevated to GM a year later. Not the best comparison, but I bought a house where the previous owner had painted the master bedroom Pepto Bismol pink. I had to spend money to undo what they did.
Edit: Had my memory jogged that Lou had to clean up his own mess and gave up a 2007 1st rounder to dump Vladimir Malakhov's contract. That pick changed hands again and eventually netted David Perron. Devils likely would have taken somebody else had they kept the pick. It wasn't ideal but that was the price of undoing a mistake.
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Because he started one on the main board that got nuked in short order.
Crosby2010
Registered User
- Mar 4, 2023
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2017 is history, no?
I think at the time the Leafs needed some veteran leadership. This was a time when the Leafs had that "aw shucks" look to them after losing to Washington in the opening round with a record 5 overtime games (1951 Leafs/Habs had 5 overtime games as did Phoenix/Chicago in 2012 but has anyone else?)
The signing didn't have the feel of a hometown boy coming home to try to win a Cup. Like Thornton for example. Or someone like Corson or Roberts. Partly because Marleau is not from Ontario too. I do agree that Babcock likely had a hand in this as Marleau was a Team Canada Olympian in 2010 and 2014.
BraveCanadian
Registered User
- Jun 30, 2010
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MarkusKetterer
Shoulda got one game in
This. It’s like saying the Leafs traded Scott Niedermayer for Tom Kurvers.
No. They traded the pick for Kurvers. And if the Sharks picked Scott, then nobody would say the Leafs traded Kurvers for Pat Falloon.
Yes and no. I think you should include the position of the pick, yeah if a team hits on a 7th traded to them, it's hardly an indictment of a GM, but the picks traded that became Louongo, Neidermeyer, and Segin are absolutely big losses.
Michael Farkas
Celebrate 68
Yeah, position makes sense. But unless you're in a spot where it's basically a guarantee that that player is going there (i.e. Celebrini at 1 this year), it's silly to include the player.
Someone traded Buffalo a 5th round pick for Rhett Warrener at the deadline, that 5th became Ryan Miller...that doesn't make that a bad deal five years later.
Similarly, the Penguins acquired an 8th overall pick in the Jordan Staal trade. That pick became Derrick Pouliot. That doesn't mean the Penguins didn't get good value...they just can't scout.
Someone traded Buffalo a 5th round pick for Rhett Warrener at the deadline, that 5th became Ryan Miller...that doesn't make that a bad deal five years later.
Similarly, the Penguins acquired an 8th overall pick in the Jordan Staal trade. That pick became Derrick Pouliot. That doesn't mean the Penguins didn't get good value...they just can't scout.
Leaf Fans
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- Sep 29, 2017
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Even Lou makes bad signings one in a blue moon. Jarvis is like Tim Stützle only for 8M lessing cap.
sr edler
gold is not reality
- Mar 20, 2010
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Seth Jarvis while a good player isn't someone that would've put Toronto over the top, if they even would have picked him which is highly unlikely.
But yes, Babcock loved Marleau and Tavares because they're both bootlickers with generic photo albums.
But yes, Babcock loved Marleau and Tavares because they're both bootlickers with generic photo albums.
Marleau has the most games played in NHL history without winning anything. While playing like he didn't care for the majority of it.
That's not fair to Tavares. He has fallen off but it's rare for a center of his caliber to reach free agency. It's even more rare for a big name player like that to return to his Canadian hometown. Tavares isn't worth what he is being paid but he was a legit signing and a legitimate star player in the league.
Hobnobs
Pinko
- Nov 29, 2011
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Probably still takes Amirov
EDIT: Forgot what happened to Amirov and my post would've been tasteless in it's original form. My apologies.
Hobnobs
Pinko
- Nov 29, 2011
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On his own Jarvis wouldnt do much for the Leafs BUT it would give Leafs cheap depth and the Domi signing wouldnt happen. They would have a player that can play all forward positions, anywhere in the lineup for less than a third of Domis cap hit. That's priceless in the cap era.
BigBadBruins7708
Registered User
Tavares signing with Toronto was a colossally misguided waste of money. Toronto didn't need forward help, they had Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Kadri. What they needed (and still need) is top pair defensemen and a goalie. That $11m a year to Tavares could've gone a long way to filling that hole (such as signing Pietrangelo).
They also hurt themselves 2 ways with that signing, that move raised the internal pay structure and cost them a couple million a year each on Matthews and Marner next 2 contracts.
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
What's worse is that as long as JT is sucking up $11M, it's practically impossible for the team to contend, yet, I seem to be the only Leafs fan in the world who thinks the team should be doing whatever they can to get out from under it. Everyone else either thinks,
- Oh, that would be so "classless" to make our captain, a Toronto boy, our prized UFA signing and the guy who got us to the 2nd round, waive his NMC. What free agent would ever want to come to Toronto ever again, for as long as the next two generations of Tavareses are alive???
- Forget it. Not gonna happen. Ever. No player with a NMC has ever been moved. Ever. We're stuck with him. Think of other ways to improve the team, because this ain't it. We're not gonna contend this year or next because of him, you say? Well, we'll see. Maybe you're right. And if you are, at least it's just those two years and we can go back to being a contender in AM & MM's age 28 seasons. I don't care that we're wasting their age 26 & 27 seasons. It is what it is.
