How does Canada's 2010-2016 "golden generation" compare with previous Canadian ones?

WarriorofTime

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Jul 3, 2010
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Canada won best on best Olympics in 2010 and 2014 along with a 2016 World Cup of Hockey with a lot of the same core:

2010, 2014 and 2016 (all) crossover:
Patrice Bergeron
Sidney Crosby
Drew Doughty
Ryan Getzlaf
Duncan Keith*
Corey Perry
Jonathan Toews
Shea Weber

2010 and 2014 (only) crossover
:
Roberto Luongo
Patrick Marleau
Rick Nash

2014 and 2016 (only) crossover:
Jamie Benn*
Jay Bouwmeester
Jeff Carter*
Matt Duchene
Alex Pietrangelo
Carey Price
Steven Stamkos*
John Tavares
Marc-Edouard Vlasic

2010 and 2016 (only) crossover:
Joe Thornton

* = chosen for a team but had to withdraw due to injury

Do you think this was the best generation of players (as a whole) for Canada ever or were there some other eras of players all around the same time that may have been stronger?
 

HF007

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Sep 9, 2008
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Best defensive and balanced Canadian team era ever, esp 2014.
 

JackSlater

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Apr 27, 2010
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Despite the roster Canada had at the 1991 Canada Cup, the early 90s was a loaded period for Canada. I think that is probably the strongest period. Mid 1970s, right around the 1976 Canada Cup, was also a very strong time with Lafleur and Potvin emerging as Orr played his last elite hockey. Late 50s into the 60s feels like a strong era as well.

The recent generation was good, though I get the sense that Canada is a lot smarter about team construction and preparation now than was the case before.
 

NyQuil

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I’m not sure if this is fair or not, but the competition may not have been what it was in some of the previous eras.

The Russians had issues on the back-end, the Swedish golden generation was gone, and one might argue that the US was sort of in between generations. I think the Finns might be more competitive now.

Relatively speaking, these Canadian teams performed well but in a vacuum, I’m not sure how strong they are.
 

MadLuke

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It is hard to know how much was Canada specially good or traditional other power having a bit of a downtime. But they dominated some of those tourney (2014 OG for example) in a spectacular way.
 

JackSlater

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I've always thought that Canada's best possible team would have been at the Albertville or Lillehammer Olympics, should NHL players been allowed to participate.

I had a file with a theoretical Olympic team going back to the 20s, factoring in injuries as realistically as possible. The 1992 and 1994 teams looked the strongest on paper.
 

MadLuke

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I've always thought that Canada's best possible team would have been at the Albertville or Lillehammer Olympics, should NHL players been allowed to participate.

They are a candidate for sure, Canadian center with the most points around that time (90-91 to 93-94)

Points (ppg)
Center
Gretzky: 527 (1.62)
Oates: 521 (1.49)
Yzerman: 468 (1.34)
Sakic: 462 (1.29)
Turgeon: 447 (1.26)
Gilmour: 439 (1.2)
Messier: 399 (1.21)
Francis: 393 (1.09)
Damphousse: 390 (winger a lot around that time too)
Hawerchuk: 385
Lemieux: 373 (2.17 ppg)
...
Muller, Linden, Ricci


That so much center dept, that I am not sure a player like Joe Sakic get automatically a spot on that team , Gretzky-Lemieux-Yzerman-Messier being I think the clear top 4 of that time and if it is 1994 you have Gilmour to put in if Lemieux goes left wing, while in 1992 that a young Sakic with 0 playoff experience).

While a much older Sakic is an ultra easy an automatic pick in 2006, captain and not because of respecting him but because easily one of the best center for Canada even if he is significantly past is peak at 37, that clear example of decline in Canadian talent at that position between the 2 era.

Left wing
Robitaille
Andreychuk
Shanahan
Bellows
Grave
Corson
Roberts
Clark
Juneau

Right wing
Recchi
Neely
Fleury
Tocchet
Ciccarelli
Verbeek
Larmer
Nolan
Gartner
Lemieux

D:
Bourque
Coffey
MacInnis
Murphy
Stevens
Blake
Desjardins
Duchesne
---Lefebvre, Odelein, Cote or young Niedermayer-Foote in 94 if some of the above cannot come, with that top 3 adn the option to play 7 or 8 D in IIFH, you do need that many minutes from the bottom guys.

For your role player you have Guy Carbonneau, Graham, Skrudland, some of the Sutter's, Keane you can pick from, but with the Francis-Damphousse, Messier, Muller, C. Lemieux, Grave, the option to go all talent and have no issue making your PK units is quite there anyway.

I think one way to see it, is how hard it would have been for some player to make it (say Damphousse), while older and lesser version could have made it somewhat easily in some other edition. Starting to go over the hill Nolan made it in 2002, not sure he does here with Roberts-Neely-Shanahan-Tocchet-Andreychuk-Grave and Clark for the 94-Verbeek pushing him quite down the list of your big or physical winger list, some of that is explained by valuing experience, leadership and so on, but some would be that the early 90s was an extreme talented time for the first liner Canada debt wise.

There is a possible trap of taking too much of those big time forward and making them play out of position I imagine.

It is not just that the list of name is impressive (the 2002 also had that) but it is how many of those name are fully in their prime (some still prime but a perfect mix of veterancy in them at the same time like Yzerman-Bourque-Lemieux-Gilmour-Messier), only Gretzky is a clear step below is peak on those big name that would come I feel like, but that still an Art Ross winner type of player that can elevate is game on the big stage, specially a short tourney he can do a 93 versus Canucks or Leaf performance.
 
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Nerowoy nora tolad

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They are a candidate for sure, Canadian center with the most points around that time (90-91 to 93-94)

Points (ppg)
Center
Gretzky: 527 (1.62)
Oates: 521 (1.49)
Yzerman: 468 (1.34)
Sakic: 462 (1.29)
Turgeon: 447 (1.26)
Gilmour: 439 (1.2)
Messier: 399 (1.21)
Francis: 393 (1.09)
Damphousse: 390 (winger a lot around that time too)1991-92 NHL Goalie Statistics | Hockey-Reference.com
Hawerchuk: 385
Lemieux: 373 (2.17 ppg)
...
Muller, Linden, Ricci


That so much center dept, that I am not sure a player like Joe Sakic get automatically a spot on that team , Gretzky-Lemieux-Yzerman-Messier being I think the clear top 4 of that time and if it is 1994 you have Gilmour to put in if Lemieux goes left wing, while in 1992 that a young Sakic with 0 playoff experience).

While a much older Sakic is an ultra easy an automatic pick in 2006, captain and not because of respecting him but because easily one of the best center for Canada even he is significantly past is peak at 37.

Left wing
Robitaille
Andreychuk
Shanahan
Bellows
Grave
Corson
Roberts
Clark
Juneau

Right wing
Recchi
Neely
Fleury
Tocchet
Ciccarelli
Verbeek
Larmer
Nolan
Gartner
Lemieux

D:
Bourque
Coffey
MacInnis
Murphy
Stevens
Blake
Desjardins
Duchesne
---Lefebvre, Odelein, Cote or young Niedermayer-Foote in 94 if some of the above cannot come, with that top 3 adn the option to play 7 or 8 D in IIFH, you do need that many minutes from the bottom guys.

For your role player you have Guy Carbonneau, Graham, Skrudland, some of the Sutter's, Keane you can pick from, but with the Francis-Damphousse, Messier, Muller, C. Lemieux, Grave, the option to go all talent and have no issue making your PK units is quite there anyway.

I think one way to see it, is how hard it would have been for some player to make it (say Damphousse), while older and lesser version could have made it somewhat easily in some other edition. Starting to go over the hill Nolan made it in 2002, not sure he does here with Roberts-Neely-Shanahan-Tocchet-Andreychuk-Grave and Clark for the 94-Verbeek pushing him quite down the list of your big or physical winger list, some of that is explained by valuing experience, leadership and so on, but some would be that the early 90s was an extreme talented time for the first liner Canada debt wise.

There is a possible trap of taking too much of those big time forward and making them play out of position I imagine.

It is not just that the list of name is impressive (the 2002 also had that) but it is how many of those name are fully in their prime (some still prime but a perfect mix of veterancy in them at the same time like Yzerman-Bourque-Lemieux-Gilmour-Messier), only Gretzky is a clear step below is peak on those big name that would come I feel like, but that still an Art Ross winner type of player that can elevate is game on the big stage, specially a short tourney he can do a 93 versus Canucks or Leaf performance.


And just for completeness, in goal

Roy
Joseph
McLean
Hrudey
Ranford
Belfour
Moog
Fitzpatrick
 

JackSlater

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Apr 27, 2010
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What about 2002-2004? Much smaller time frame but they won the Olympics, World Cup and 2 World Championships in that time frame.

I'd still call it sort of a lull period despite good results. The 2002 Olympic team was sort of a last hurrah for the generation that peaked 10 years earlier and the 2004 World Cup team was the only hurrah for what ended up being a disappointing generation. An over-simplifiction but that's the sense I have. Both are hurt by a weak generation of players plus premature declines of guys who should have been Canada's best like Lindros and Kariya. In terms of results it does help when pretty much every other country also has those premature declines as well.
 

gotyournose

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Oct 24, 2019
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I'd still call it sort of a lull period despite good results. The 2002 Olympic team was sort of a last hurrah for the generation that peaked 10 years earlier and the 2004 World Cup team was the only hurrah for what ended up being a disappointing generation. An over-simplifiction but that's the sense I have. Both are hurt by a weak generation of players plus premature declines of guys who should have been Canada's best like Lindros and Kariya. In terms of results it does help when pretty much every other country also has those premature declines as well.
I don’t know who I would add to the 2002 Olympic team. Once the team got rolling, they got rolling. Though I will say Ryan Smyth is replaceable. 2004 World Cup team on defence was missing Pronger, Blake and Jovo. Just imagine if they were on the backend during the tournament. In terms of forwards hard to say. Centre is set with Sakic, jumbo, Vinny and Richards.

2006 Olympics is perfect case of team chemistry being off and players getting a cold streak at the wrong time. I have to believe if the team is clicking and firing on all cylinders, Canada wins gold in 2006 Olympics. Even without Niedermayer(which was a crippling loss) the defence was good enough at best.
 
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86Habs

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I had a file with a theoretical Olympic team going back to the 20s, factoring in injuries as realistically as possible. The 1992 and 1994 teams looked the strongest on paper.

Yeah, agreed. There is a possibility that Canada could muck it up through sub-optimal roster selection or poor coaching (imagine Keenan being responsible for selecting the roster and coaching, on international ice with IIHF refereeing), but the talent level is so deep and of such high quality that I would have to believe they could overcome that. I like the hypothetical 1992 team more than the hypothetical 1994 team, if only because you get Wayne and Mario closer to their peaks:

Goal: Roy, Belfour, McLean

Defense: Bourque, Stevens, MacInnis, Murphy, Coffey, Desjardins (plus one of Smith, Tinordi, Macoun, Cote, etc.)

Centers: Gretzky, Lemieux, Messier, then a wealth of talent to choose from. I wonder whether Canada would have chosen Lindros, who was a few months out from being selected to the 1991 Canada Cup team (and playing well, though in a limited, physical role) and played at the Olympics anyway. Gilmour would likely center the "checking" line. There would likely be a lot of top-level center talent left off the roster...hard to find a spot for Sakic, Francis, Oates, Turgeon, Nieuwendyk, Brind'Amour, checkers like Carbonneau or Sutter, and possibly even Yzerman depending on which way they go with Lindros.

Wingers: Lots of good, hard-nosed natural wingers with a goal-scoring bend to choose from (even without Neely). Roberts, Larmer, Shanahan, Graves...maybe Muller and Linden for the checking line wingers...Gartner and Fleury for skating ability on international ice and Robitaille for scoring ability. Again, good talent would likely be left off like Damphousse, Andreychuk, Tocchet, Lemieux, Cicarelli, Verbeek, Nolan (in the midst of a breakout season), Graham for checking/defense.

What an incredible amount of talent.
 
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MadLuke

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Jan 18, 2011
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Gilmour would likely center the "checking" line

Did not made it on the 1991 team, Albertville is before the 92-93 season start, the only change is toronto in january a month before the Olympics but the team could have been mostly lock.

He is a lock on the 1994 squad if healthy, but 1992 I feel he is still like the 1991 Gilmour and a maybe.

Graham made the 1991 team and is having a very similar season, coached by Keenan (if he is the coach and considering he just won in 91 with is style that make it possible, I imagine that throw a lot of "logical-obvious" pick out of the window has well).
 

86Habs

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May 4, 2009
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Did not made it on the 1991 team, Albertville is before the 92-93 season start, the only change is toronto in january a month before the Olympics but the team could have been mostly lock.

He is a lock on the 1994 squad if healthy, but 1992 I feel he is still like the 1991 Gilmour and a maybe.

Graham made the 1991 team and is having a very similar season, coached by Keenan (if he is the coach and considering he just won in 91 with is style that make it possible, I imagine that throw a lot of "logical-obvious" pick out of the window has well).

That's a fair point re: Gilmour, although we was having a solid 1991-1992 season at the time of the trade. Sutter might be the most obvious option at checking line center (other than Gilmour), and I don't particular like the thought of him on international ice. However, if Keenan were the GM and coach I'd have no doubt he would be selected, and the 1992 team would look a lot like the 1991 Canada Cup team (so no Yzerman, and maybe some other off-the-wall selections).
 

MadLuke

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Jan 18, 2011
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That's a fair point re: Gilmour, although we was having a solid 1991-1992 season at the time of the trade. Sutter might be the most obvious option at checking line center (other than Gilmour), and I don't particular like the thought of him on international ice. However, if Keenan were the GM and coach I'd have no doubt he would be selected, and the 1992 team would look a lot like the 1991 Canada Cup team (so no Yzerman, and maybe some other off-the-wall selections).

Considering he (Gilmour) was not on that Keenan 1991 team, I am not sure I follow.
1991 Canada Cup rosters - Wikipedia

Was he injured ?

Keenan favored Graham-Lindros-Sutter over Gilmour in 1991 and he was still coaching Graham with the Hawks in 1992 and Sutter joined the Hawks has well, not sure why it would not have been the same here with those 3 still above Gilmour in a Keenan picking order that just won with that decision and Gilmour status being still exactly the same I think at that point.
 

86Habs

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May 4, 2009
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Considering he (Gilmour) was not on that Keenan 1991 team, I am not sure I follow.
1991 Canada Cup rosters - Wikipedia

Was he injured ?

Keenan favored Graham-Lindros-Sutter over Gilmour in 1991 and he was still coaching Graham with the Hawks in 1992 and Sutter joined the Hawks has well, not sure why it would not have been the same here with those 3 still above Gilmour in a Keenan picking order that just won with that decision and Gilmour status being still exactly the same I think at that point.

I was referring to Sutter in the parts you bolded, so we agree. I think Gilmour was a vastly better player though.
 
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blundluntman

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I do remember the 2014 Olympics being absolute domination from Canada but I was also quite underwhelmed by the other team's rosters that year. I think any of those teams in the 90s would've been just as dominant if not more. That being said though, they're up there for best Olympic rosters, the forward core is fairly stale compared to past teams though
 

gotyournose

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Oct 24, 2019
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I do remember the 2014 Olympics being absolute domination from Canada but I was also quite underwhelmed by the other team's rosters that year. I think any of those teams in the 90s would've been just as dominant if not more. That being said though, they're up there for best Olympic rosters, the forward core is fairly stale compared to past teams though
2014 team Canada was insane but they did get lucky in that the competition was weaker. All the stars aligned for Canada. Just remember Sweden was missing so many great players.
 

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