Speculation: How do you fix this situation before the off-season?
- Thread starter Mobiandi
- Start date
Boomstick
Registered User
Well, I'm not sure what to do but I'll tell you this. We've been exposed. Everyone's beating us easily, as much as I love the Flames we might not be very good at all. I don't want to limp into the playoffs as an 8th seed just to see us get exposed and be out in 4 games.
If we're going to be this horrible, I say ride the wave and get a fantastic player in the draft.
My preference is to be solidly in the playoffs but holy smokes I can't see that happening with the way we're getting beat. We can't even get a losers point on most nights. I can't believe this team just can't score. It's not just this 6 game losing streak and goalless drought, we really haven't been playing good hockey all year. Everyone keeps saying we'll hit our stride, we're always bad in the first 10 games etc etc. This might be a long term ongoing mess. There's lots of parity in the NHL and the Flames are just struggling horribly. I don't think this is going to be an easy fix at all. I'm not happy with any of these guys right now and that's from the front office to the team on the ice. I wish i could snap my fingers and fix things but I really don't think that's going to happen. Too many players are doing absolutely nothing. It seems once they get down 1-0 that's it, they're deflated and defeated.
I do believe a few players need to get out of town, but since I'm not a GM I have no idea how that's going to happen either. Everyone's at their least value in a trade market. If I'm other teams and BT comes calling about Frolik, Jankowski and others there's no way I want players that have no impact in the NHL anymore. I just think it's going to be tough to get value for most of our players, especially anyone that plays in the bottom 6.
Anyways, I'm done with my rant. Let's see what happens in Philly.
If we're going to be this horrible, I say ride the wave and get a fantastic player in the draft.
My preference is to be solidly in the playoffs but holy smokes I can't see that happening with the way we're getting beat. We can't even get a losers point on most nights. I can't believe this team just can't score. It's not just this 6 game losing streak and goalless drought, we really haven't been playing good hockey all year. Everyone keeps saying we'll hit our stride, we're always bad in the first 10 games etc etc. This might be a long term ongoing mess. There's lots of parity in the NHL and the Flames are just struggling horribly. I don't think this is going to be an easy fix at all. I'm not happy with any of these guys right now and that's from the front office to the team on the ice. I wish i could snap my fingers and fix things but I really don't think that's going to happen. Too many players are doing absolutely nothing. It seems once they get down 1-0 that's it, they're deflated and defeated.
I do believe a few players need to get out of town, but since I'm not a GM I have no idea how that's going to happen either. Everyone's at their least value in a trade market. If I'm other teams and BT comes calling about Frolik, Jankowski and others there's no way I want players that have no impact in the NHL anymore. I just think it's going to be tough to get value for most of our players, especially anyone that plays in the bottom 6.
Anyways, I'm done with my rant. Let's see what happens in Philly.
Mobiandi
Registered User
- Jan 17, 2015
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I don't think Peters is bad but I also don't think he has what it takes to manage the personalities here
I'm seriously leaning towards a hail mary move in bringing back Darryl Sutter as interim coach and hiring Iggy as an associate coach to whip the locker room into shape. Everyone but the ex-Canes, Tkachuk, Andersson, Kylington, Brodie, and our goalies have been an absolute disgrace
I'm seriously leaning towards a hail mary move in bringing back Darryl Sutter as interim coach and hiring Iggy as an associate coach to whip the locker room into shape. Everyone but the ex-Canes, Tkachuk, Andersson, Kylington, Brodie, and our goalies have been an absolute disgrace
Ainsy01
Registered User
- Jun 12, 2014
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This was actually agreed on with a kings poster in a proposal thread. I asbolutely love it, which means its probably very bad for the kings
2020 2nd
2021 2nd
Frolik @ 4.3
Jankowski @ 1.7
money out - 6
For
Carter @ 3.7m x2 (after this year)
Toffoli @ 2.3 this year only
Money out - 6
[TBODY]
[/TBODY]
2020 2nd
2021 2nd
Frolik @ 4.3
Jankowski @ 1.7
money out - 6
For
Carter @ 3.7m x2 (after this year)
Toffoli @ 2.3 this year only
Money out - 6
| JOHNNY GAUDREAU | SEAN MONAHAN | ELIAS LINDHOLM | |
| MATTHEW TKACHUK | JEFF CARTER | TYLER TOFFOLI | |
| SAM BENNETT | MIKAEL BACKLUND | DILLON DUBE | |
| ANDREW MANGIAPANE | DEREK RYAN | MILAN LUCIC |
Bounces R Way
Registered User
I honestly have no idea. Team doesn't even seem capable of completing 3 passes in a row. So sick of hearing about "locker room issues". That is such a f***ing cop out. Only been like 15 years now.
I wouldn't mind bringing in a scoring center, preferably one that shoots right. I've always kind of liked Jeff Carter, least that guy can shoot. Would not want to pay all that much for him though.
Trade Frolik and Hamonic. Jankowski too if you can. None of these guys have provided much of anything this season. I haven't lost total faith yet, neither in Peters or the players, hockey is a weird sport. Momentum does some very odd things to a hockey team.
I wouldn't mind bringing in a scoring center, preferably one that shoots right. I've always kind of liked Jeff Carter, least that guy can shoot. Would not want to pay all that much for him though.
Trade Frolik and Hamonic. Jankowski too if you can. None of these guys have provided much of anything this season. I haven't lost total faith yet, neither in Peters or the players, hockey is a weird sport. Momentum does some very odd things to a hockey team.
Flames Fanatic
Mediocre
That second powerplay unit...
I would put almost every forward on our roster on the second PP unit before Jankowski at this point.
I would put almost every forward on our roster on the second PP unit before Jankowski at this point.
Player hasn’t scored in 60 games and is bad at screening (always tries to tip the shot or get a rebound instead). Absolutely stupid, but I would expect nothing less.
Mobiandi
Registered User
- Jan 17, 2015
- 20,990
- 17,401
It's not that bad. Jankowski in there is questionable but who else is going to be the screen? Rinaldo lol?That second powerplay unit...
I would put almost every forward on our roster on the second PP unit before Jankowski at this point.
DFF
Registered User
- Feb 28, 2002
- 22,314
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Flameshomer
Likeaholic
1. Trade Gaudreau and maybe Giordano and Backlund -- could be in the offseason, or could be pre-trade deadline, just maximize these returns. Focus on known prospects with good pedigrees.
2. Trade UFAs and underperformers pre trade deadline: Hamonic, Janko and Frolik are definites, Brodie and Bennett maybe
3. Tank remainder of season (will be easy with those trades) and secure high draft selection.
4. Throw money at Hall in off-season to replace gaudreau's offensive creativity and production
IMO this is the best possible outcome at this point. I think we need to get value out of Gio before the contract becomes a total anchor. He has been majorly bad this season, and I am nervous that now that the perpetual underdog drive is gone he will continue on this trend. Gaudreau doesn't take nutrition, health, or physical development seriously at all, and it will catch up to him if it hasn't already.
Tkachuk-Monahan-Lindholm is a good foundation of a forward core. On the D side, relying on Hanifin, Andersson and Valimaki going forward seems like the right call.
2. Trade UFAs and underperformers pre trade deadline: Hamonic, Janko and Frolik are definites, Brodie and Bennett maybe
3. Tank remainder of season (will be easy with those trades) and secure high draft selection.
4. Throw money at Hall in off-season to replace gaudreau's offensive creativity and production
IMO this is the best possible outcome at this point. I think we need to get value out of Gio before the contract becomes a total anchor. He has been majorly bad this season, and I am nervous that now that the perpetual underdog drive is gone he will continue on this trend. Gaudreau doesn't take nutrition, health, or physical development seriously at all, and it will catch up to him if it hasn't already.
Tkachuk-Monahan-Lindholm is a good foundation of a forward core. On the D side, relying on Hanifin, Andersson and Valimaki going forward seems like the right call.
Der Jaeger
Generational EBUG
Sabres have had interest in Jankowski in the past. Sabres need a two way center and a net front presence. Is he that guy?
Bounces R Way
Registered User
No. He is decent defensively and on the PK. Don't think he could find the front of the net if you drew him a map.
This can;t be fixed in season. They can't unload draft picks and their prospects are meh. Its up to this group of players to either figure it out and go on a St Louis type run to make the playoffs or the players continue to play like crap and we try to offload pending UFA's for picks and hope for the lottery gods to smile on them.
Iggys Dome
Not allowed to say the “R-Word” (rebuild)
I don’t think tanking is the worst idea in the world right now. I’m not saying I’d fully be on board with a tank ( okay, well maybe I would be) but unless this team strings together some confident wins in the next couple weeks I’m quite alright with offloading Frolik, Janko, Hamonic etc. ( this is a must if we go the tank route).
I still think this is a good team on paper, and should be a consistent playoff team no question. But it’s quite clear that it’s a mental thing, as this team has had a habit of unraveling like this since 2016. BP is a decent coach l, I don’t think it’s on him really. Unless there really was a systems change and all of a sudden we decided to stop activating our d and choose to dump the puck which would really bother me.
This team got ass f***ed by Colorado last playoffs. But that’s no excuse for the absolute piss poor start we had. Just brush it off and get back up. I’m starting to get a bit annoyed with the leadership group we have right now, but I’m willing to give them a slight break given they have shown the ability to rally together.
I still think this is a good team on paper, and should be a consistent playoff team no question. But it’s quite clear that it’s a mental thing, as this team has had a habit of unraveling like this since 2016. BP is a decent coach l, I don’t think it’s on him really. Unless there really was a systems change and all of a sudden we decided to stop activating our d and choose to dump the puck which would really bother me.
This team got ass f***ed by Colorado last playoffs. But that’s no excuse for the absolute piss poor start we had. Just brush it off and get back up. I’m starting to get a bit annoyed with the leadership group we have right now, but I’m willing to give them a slight break given they have shown the ability to rally together.
Anglesmith
Setting up the play?
I've always been pretty pro-player, and I think I stand by that right now. I think nothing is more convincing than looking at the "good teams" when they suffer injuries. Their call-ups come in and beat the other teams' NHL players. Organizations like Boston and Pittsburgh regularly have career AHLers come in and contribute, and those players generally seem to have zero NHL career prospects outside of that perfect storm that puts them in the lineup. On a team playing well, players are interchangeable parts who can fit in easily because of support from the regulars in the lineup. The decisions a player needs to make are made simple by a clear focus.
That's on a team playing well, though, which we are not, and haven't really been for a while. The Flames right now seem extremely unsure of what their system is dictating and what they should be doing. They regularly make confident passes into awful situations. Because the team is playing badly and has massive confidence issues, it's really hard to separate system from poor play. One feature of the Flames' game that I've picked on in the past is their tendency to force breakouts in outnumbered situations when keeping the puck is an option. There are so many games lately where Gaudreau gets blamed for lack of offence and turnovers, but where he keeps being passed the puck on a breakout and left to go 4-on-1 while his teammates are behind the play.
So I'm really curious about whether this is a system aspect, seeing as it has been going on for so long. The Flames seem hell-bent on making a forward pass just for the sake of making a forward pass. This tends to lead to turnovers, which leads to chances against. If this is part of Peters' system, I hope he is gone soon. If it's part of the issues with puck decisions that Gaudreau referenced on behalf of the players, I hope they pull their heads out of their asses quickly. But overall, I don't believe the problems facing the Flames are as simple as just having the wrong players.
That's on a team playing well, though, which we are not, and haven't really been for a while. The Flames right now seem extremely unsure of what their system is dictating and what they should be doing. They regularly make confident passes into awful situations. Because the team is playing badly and has massive confidence issues, it's really hard to separate system from poor play. One feature of the Flames' game that I've picked on in the past is their tendency to force breakouts in outnumbered situations when keeping the puck is an option. There are so many games lately where Gaudreau gets blamed for lack of offence and turnovers, but where he keeps being passed the puck on a breakout and left to go 4-on-1 while his teammates are behind the play.
So I'm really curious about whether this is a system aspect, seeing as it has been going on for so long. The Flames seem hell-bent on making a forward pass just for the sake of making a forward pass. This tends to lead to turnovers, which leads to chances against. If this is part of Peters' system, I hope he is gone soon. If it's part of the issues with puck decisions that Gaudreau referenced on behalf of the players, I hope they pull their heads out of their asses quickly. But overall, I don't believe the problems facing the Flames are as simple as just having the wrong players.
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Anglesmith
Setting up the play?
Well, my last sentence there can be interpreted two ways. On one hand, it's not so simple as "it's this player and this player at fault." It's more complicated than that. So that seems negative.
But the solution to the simple player problem is a complicated rebuild process. Fixing the more complicated issues facing this team is a more simple solution, comparatively. It's attainable internally, and this team has proven that it's possible with this group. So from that perspective, it's a positive.
Anglesmith
Setting up the play?
There we go. Thought we lost you for a bit.
Any actual thoughts? Do you notice the systemic issues forcing plays that I talked about?
My take hasn't changed this year- teams have clogged the middle and taken away our space. Peters has no counter, and they scramble constantly or just dump it in. Also the fact the team stills defers to Gaudreau when teams just dog pile him, and this hasn't changed is either an issue of lack of adjustment or the personnel isn't going enough. It also doesn't help that our defense has become much more passive in the neutral zone; I find they back off FAR too often for my liking because they fear getting burned, and they don't join the rush enough anymore either. Maybe it was just me, but I actually thought Davidson was pretty aggressive in the neutral zone in his first game (at least compared to the other dmen), and I have a bad feeling that has been coached into this group to prevent them from getting "burned" as often. Either way, it is a big problem that our team cannot transition effectively, and its not a surprise our scoring has evaporated again despite the fact that we generate chances.
Idk how to fix it, and it seems the same applies for Peters. We aren't an effective cycle team, and right now we are too reliant on that and our defense to generate chances from the point (San Jose can do it, but they have Erik Karlsson and Brent Burns while we simply don't). Its a big mess.
I dont think the Flames can fix this in-season. To paraphrase Ned Flanders, I think Treliving is in a dilly of a pickle.
1. Cant make a trade - The Flames right now are a roster made up of two distinct halves. Take the forwards - on one side you have four high end/elite players (Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm & Tkachuk). The rest of the roster is a dogs breakfast of reclamation projects, failed draft picks, character guys and players with potential that cant seem to “put it all together”.
a) Trading one of the Big Four forwards would simply shift the strength fron one side to another. Moving a winger for a center would weaken the wing. Moving a center for a winger kills their minimal center depth.
b) Trading from the second group isnt going to be significant enough to “shake things up”. It would likely be a “shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic” type move.
c) Their biggest trade chips are injured. The names being kicked around as possible trade assets were/are Brodie. Hamonic, amd Bennett. All currently injured. The other two, Jankowski and Frolik wont return a player that moves the needle.
d) Trading picks right now would be disastrous. The only way they should even consider moving a first is if the Flames are firmly entrenched in a playoff spot.
2. A coaching change is not an option. I think Treliving knows his destiny is linked to Peters’. If one goes, I think they both go.
3. The solution is not internal. Theres simply no one in Stockton that has the talent to step in and make a difference.
I wouldn't want Brad Treliving’s job for anything right now. I AM, however, very curious to see how this all shakes out.
1. Cant make a trade - The Flames right now are a roster made up of two distinct halves. Take the forwards - on one side you have four high end/elite players (Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm & Tkachuk). The rest of the roster is a dogs breakfast of reclamation projects, failed draft picks, character guys and players with potential that cant seem to “put it all together”.
a) Trading one of the Big Four forwards would simply shift the strength fron one side to another. Moving a winger for a center would weaken the wing. Moving a center for a winger kills their minimal center depth.
b) Trading from the second group isnt going to be significant enough to “shake things up”. It would likely be a “shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic” type move.
c) Their biggest trade chips are injured. The names being kicked around as possible trade assets were/are Brodie. Hamonic, amd Bennett. All currently injured. The other two, Jankowski and Frolik wont return a player that moves the needle.
d) Trading picks right now would be disastrous. The only way they should even consider moving a first is if the Flames are firmly entrenched in a playoff spot.
2. A coaching change is not an option. I think Treliving knows his destiny is linked to Peters’. If one goes, I think they both go.
3. The solution is not internal. Theres simply no one in Stockton that has the talent to step in and make a difference.
I wouldn't want Brad Treliving’s job for anything right now. I AM, however, very curious to see how this all shakes out.
