Speculation: How do you feel about the rebuild, and how confident are you in the team's direction?

Anaheim4ever

Registered User
Jun 15, 2017
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I'm a little confused. Lets say we're a year behind the Kings in the rebuild. What exactly did the Kings do last year that we haven't done yet?
They stockpiled a lot more Center prospects but i think the only one of theirs i see that can be better than Zegras is Byfield.
I see McTavish being on par with Turcotte in developing as a great 2C 2way player but McTavish could emerge next year as the better prospect & turn out better.
Then you have Villardi that is clearly so much better than Steel and Lundestrom. They also just drafted Pinelli to add to that center pool.

It really helps the Kings that their 30+ forwards aged a lot better. Kopitar + Brown vs Getzlaf + Perry(was bought out).
 

91Fedorov

John (Gibson) 3:16
Dec 30, 2013
1,229
727
I'm a little confused. Lets say we're a year behind the Kings in the rebuild. What exactly did the Kings do last year that we haven't done yet?
What did they do last year isn't a fair question. They started sucking sooner than we did. They also got lucky enough to win a draft lottery. They gambled on Vilardi and his back injury and the bet seems to be paying off. Every draft requires a bit of luck. There are surprises and let downs every year. There is no formula to follow.
 

DavidBL

Registered User
Jul 25, 2012
5,936
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Orange, CA
What did they do last year isn't a fair question. They started sucking sooner than we did. They also got lucky enough to win a draft lottery. They gambled on Vilardi and his back injury and the bet seems to be paying off. Every draft requires a bit of luck. There are surprises and let downs every year. There is no formula to follow.
My point was that LA didn't really do anything last year and people here are blasting BM for doing nothing. Like you said, LA was sucking sooner than we were so it could be argued we are now where they were last year. Up to this summer people were claiming LA was doing it right.... Just kind of point out the double standard.
 
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Hockey Duckie

Registered User
Jul 25, 2003
17,556
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southern cal
We still have a terrible team and a GM who after 3 years of failure has shown little interest or desire to make necessary improvements. We have nice pieces in play but I have no confidence the people currently in charge are the ones to make it happen

tl:dr version:

No desire to make necessary improvements? Remember our franchise players who carried us in the Twins, Getz and Pears? We have two new franchise, cornerstone players. Whatcha talkin' 'bout, Willis?!

jamie-drysdale-and-trevor-zegras-of-the-anaheim-ducks-pose-with-the-picture-id1231800918

And this lovely beast...

139f5ebb-2c7b-4e53-a2f4-f9301f6b6cda-mctavish__headshot.jpeg


Epic Version:

Three things:
1. We are in agreement with the construct of this team and how we played last year, we are terrible.


B. To be fair, he has shown necessary improvements for the past three years. We have landed two franchise cornerstones going forward with Zegras and Drysdale. We might have a third in McTavish. All three are top-9 selections for the past three drafts. But we actually have identified two franchise players. That's actually making it happen. But franchise players still need a team around them to work. Comtois is finally rising above the rest of the prospects not named Zegras or Drysdale. For the past two drafts, we've doubled up on first rounders in LW Tracey and RW Perreault via trades and eating cap. Ohhhh... I love what we have in Perreault now that we know he's working his tail off on both sides of the ice! Then, we have trade baits in G Dostal along with the three musketeer defensemen in LaCombe, Thrun, and Moore. In this past draft, we might have potential steals in D Zellweger and F Pastujov.

Our health has been a significant factor in our demise with both Lindholm and Manson falling to injuries that sideline them long term. Tack on Silf's physical injury with Rico's mental injury.

d. The front office is the same front office that kept the Ducks atop the Pacific Division for five consecutive seasons and playoff bound for six consecutive seasons. In the 13 seasons under Murray, the Ducks have been playoff bound eight times. So what happened in these past three seasons?

Original Contract lenghts
201620172018201920202021
Getzlafxxxxx
Perryxxxxx
Keslerxxxxxx
Eavesx (TDL)xxx
PlayoffsWCF1st rdn/an/an/a
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

  • We lost Eaves completely in starting in 2017 due to some unknown illness. Eaves played a total of 9 NHL games in his three-year extension from the Ducks and didn't touch the ice in 2019-20 season.
  • Kesler's healthy also started in 2017, basically half the player he was pre-2017. His last season playing on ice was 2018-19 season.
  • Perry was bought out in 2019-20 season after lackluster effort in 2018-19 season. The team wanted to move on from Perry and start the youth movement in 2019-20, despite Murray saying it wasn't a youth movement.
  • Getzlaf starting losing his step in 2018-19 season.
It's kinda difficult to win when you lose top talents like the four mentioned above. After going to the WCF with all four, there were visions we can get to the next step in 2017 as well as be competitive through 2020.
Anaheim is rebuilding, but their process is a slow one, unfortunately. We have to have veterans to help shield the younglings until they can fly on their own. Building through the draft ranks as a higher priority for the organization. There's tinkering around with the Heinen's, Volkov's, and Fleury's, but it's the Zegras' and the Drysdale's that will carry this organization on their backs for the next decade or longer. We're just waiting on their maturation to come up, which is soon.

It's odd to see the bitching and complaining about the past three seasons when we've landed two franchise players and one more potential franchise player because of our bad seasons. Being a playoff team for six consecutive seasons doesn't often give you a plethora of chances to draft top-10 talent. We're in a freaking rebuild and you want an instantaneous turnaround when we've been lacking prospect talent to carry us.

  • 2014 LW Ritchie is a #10 overall, but plays like perimeter player most of the time and has become a niche PP specialist only.
  • 2014 RW Kase is a rd 7 line driver, but made out of glass.
  • 2015 D Larsson is a first rounder defenseman that hasn't panned out like all the other Ducks' defensemen.
  • 2015 forward Nattinen (Rd 2) busted.
  • 2015 forward Terry (Rd 5) dominates the AHL, but turtles in the NHL. He's trending along the "Holland Hang-up Hallway".
  • 2016 first rounder forwards Jones and Steel are third liners, though, I'm not so sure about Steel being an NHL product from last year's play.
  • 2017 second rounder Comtois is the prospect pre-Zegras that has made a significant impact. (We traded our #1 for Eaves.)
  • 2017 second rounder Morand is an AHL player, but we traded him for Volkov this past season.
  • 2018 first rounder Lundy is a defensive solid 3C.
We've been capped strapped for several season due to Eaves, Kesler, and Perry's buyout. Now, we have cap space today and going forward with franchise players along with Rakell 2.0 (Comtois). We've been in on D Justin Faulk, but he used us to stay on the East Coast. We were set to giving up our futures for a healhty PLD. We're in on broke-neck Eichel, but not wanting to trade either one of our franchise players.

There are many ways to be successful. If we don't get Eichel, then our other route is to stay the course to continue the build. Back in 2003, we nearly traded away Corey Perry to improve our team faster. Luckily, the trade was botched and we ended up far better with Perry than without. It just took a different route. I hate the losing seasons, but Zegras is here today. Drysdale is here today. We have a great defensive veteran unit when healthy. I'd like another top-6 forward or two, but it's asinine to think the org doesn't want to get back to being a playoff team. There's a long game here for Murray. And his best assets are drafting and cap management. Right now, our prospect pool just got much deeper with the 2021 draft and that can only help us via becoming NHL players or packaged for a trade. Why? Because that's what Murray has done before with us.
 

Hockey Duckie

Registered User
Jul 25, 2003
17,556
12,464
southern cal
They stockpiled a lot more Center prospects but i think the only one of theirs i see that can be better than Zegras is Byfield.
I see McTavish being on par with Turcotte in developing as a great 2C 2way player but McTavish could emerge next year as the better prospect & turn out better.
Then you have Villardi that is clearly so much better than Steel and Lundestrom. They also just drafted Pinelli to add to that center pool.

It really helps the Kings that their 30+ forwards aged a lot better. Kopitar + Brown vs Getzlaf + Perry(was bought out).

Don't forget Eaves and Kelser into that mix!
 
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Anaheim4ever

Registered User
Jun 15, 2017
8,869
5,440
tl:dr version:

No desire to make necessary improvements? Remember our franchise players who carried us in the Twins, Getz and Pears? We have two new franchise, cornerstone players. Whatcha talkin' 'bout, Willis?!

jamie-drysdale-and-trevor-zegras-of-the-anaheim-ducks-pose-with-the-picture-id1231800918

And this lovely beast...

139f5ebb-2c7b-4e53-a2f4-f9301f6b6cda-mctavish__headshot.jpeg


Epic Version:

Three things:
1. We are in agreement with the construct of this team and how we played last year, we are terrible.


B. To be fair, he has shown necessary improvements for the past three years. We have landed two franchise cornerstones going forward with Zegras and Drysdale. We might have a third in McTavish. All three are top-9 selections for the past three drafts. But we actually have identified two franchise players. That's actually making it happen. But franchise players still need a team around them to work. Comtois is finally rising above the rest of the prospects not named Zegras or Drysdale. For the past two drafts, we've doubled up on first rounders in LW Tracey and RW Perreault via trades and eating cap. Ohhhh... I love what we have in Perreault now that we know he's working his tail off on both sides of the ice! Then, we have trade baits in G Dostal along with the three musketeer defensemen in LaCombe, Thrun, and Moore. In this past draft, we might have potential steals in D Zellweger and F Pastujov.

Our health has been a significant factor in our demise with both Lindholm and Manson falling to injuries that sideline them long term. Tack on Silf's physical injury with Rico's mental injury.

d. The front office is the same front office that kept the Ducks atop the Pacific Division for five consecutive seasons and playoff bound for six consecutive seasons. In the 13 seasons under Murray, the Ducks have been playoff bound eight times. So what happened in these past three seasons?

Original Contract lenghts
201620172018201920202021
Getzlafxxxxx
Perryxxxxx
Keslerxxxxxx
Eavesx (TDL)xxx
PlayoffsWCF1st rdn/an/an/a
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
  • We lost Eaves completely in starting in 2017 due to some unknown illness. Eaves played a total of 9 NHL games in his three-year extension from the Ducks and didn't touch the ice in 2019-20 season.
  • Kesler's healthy also started in 2017, basically half the player he was pre-2017. His last season playing on ice was 2018-19 season.
  • Perry was bought out in 2019-20 season after lackluster effort in 2018-19 season. The team wanted to move on from Perry and start the youth movement in 2019-20, despite Murray saying it wasn't a youth movement.
  • Getzlaf starting losing his step in 2018-19 season.
It's kinda difficult to win when you lose top talents like the four mentioned above. After going to the WCF with all four, there were visions we can get to the next step in 2017 as well as be competitive through 2020.
Anaheim is rebuilding, but their process is a slow one, unfortunately. We have to have veterans to help shield the younglings until they can fly on their own. Building through the draft ranks as a higher priority for the organization. There's tinkering around with the Heinen's, Volkov's, and Fleury's, but it's the Zegras' and the Drysdale's that will carry this organization on their backs for the next decade or longer. We're just waiting on their maturation to come up, which is soon.

It's odd to see the bitching and complaining about the past three seasons when we've landed two franchise players and one more potential franchise player because of our bad seasons. Being a playoff team for six consecutive seasons doesn't often give you a plethora of chances to draft top-10 talent. We're in a freaking rebuild and you want an instantaneous turnaround when we've been lacking prospect talent to carry us.

  • 2014 LW Ritchie is a #10 overall, but plays like perimeter player most of the time and has become a niche PP specialist only.
  • 2014 RW Kase is a rd 7 line driver, but made out of glass.
  • 2015 D Larsson is a first rounder defenseman that hasn't panned out like all the other Ducks' defensemen.
  • 2015 forward Nattinen (Rd 2) busted.
  • 2015 forward Terry (Rd 5) dominates the AHL, but turtles in the NHL. He's trending along the "Holland Hang-up Hallway".
  • 2016 first rounder forwards Jones and Steel are third liners, though, I'm not so sure about Steel being an NHL product from last year's play.
  • 2017 second rounder Comtois is the prospect pre-Zegras that has made a significant impact. (We traded our #1 for Eaves.)
  • 2017 second rounder Morand is an AHL player, but we traded him for Volkov this past season.
  • 2018 first rounder Lundy is a defensive solid 3C.
We've been capped strapped for several season due to Eaves, Kesler, and Perry's buyout. Now, we have cap space today and going forward with franchise players along with Rakell 2.0 (Comtois). We've been in on D Justin Faulk, but he used us to stay on the East Coast. We were set to giving up our futures for a healhty PLD. We're in on broke-neck Eichel, but not wanting to trade either one of our franchise players.

There are many ways to be successful. If we don't get Eichel, then our other route is to stay the course to continue the build. Back in 2003, we nearly traded away Corey Perry to improve our team faster. Luckily, the trade was botched and we ended up far better with Perry than without. It just took a different route. I hate the losing seasons, but Zegras is here today. Drysdale is here today. We have a great defensive veteran unit when healthy. I'd like another top-6 forward or two, but it's asinine to think the org doesn't want to get back to being a playoff team. There's a long game here for Murray. And his best assets are drafting and cap management. Right now, our prospect pool just got much deeper with the 2021 draft and that can only help us via becoming NHL players or packaged for a trade. Why? Because that's what Murray has done before with us.
Can we call McTavish: McBeast ? Unleash the McBeast !
I could imagine Ahlers saying this someday "McBeast with a big hit on Turcotte, WOW !".
 

Hockey Duckie

Registered User
Jul 25, 2003
17,556
12,464
southern cal
Can we call McTavish: McBeast ? Unleash the McBeast !
I could imagine Ahlers saying this someday "McBeast with a big hit on Turcotte, WOW !".

I think Big Mac will become a force for us.

If McTavish plays completely different from the rest of our prospects, then maybe being a beast is what the org needs. It's a bunch of beauties & the beast. heh
 

Henrique Iglesias

Registered User
Jun 15, 2009
715
549
Alberta, Canada
They stockpiled a lot more Center prospects but i think the only one of theirs i see that can be better than Zegras is Byfield.
I see McTavish being on par with Turcotte in developing as a great 2C 2way player but McTavish could emerge next year as the better prospect & turn out better.
Then you have Villardi that is clearly so much better than Steel and Lundestrom. They also just drafted Pinelli to add to that center pool.

It really helps the Kings that their 30+ forwards aged a lot better. Kopitar + Brown vs Getzlaf + Perry(was bought out).

I’m not saying Zegras will without a doubt be better, but I think Byfield will be a bust. I know he’s still young but I have not been impressed with his game at all whenever I have watched him. I think he gets more credit than he deserves simply because he is big. His skating and skill are severely overrated, IMO.
 

Masch78

Registered User
Oct 5, 2017
2,476
1,603
We still have a terrible team and a GM who after 3 years of failure has shown little interest or desire to make necessary improvements. We have nice pieces in play but I have no confidence the people currently in charge are the ones to make it happen

Now do we have nice pieces or not? Rebuild takes its time and during that time you need to add young talent. Obviously we have some, otherwise I don't know what you consider as nice pieces.
 

duckpuck

Registered User
Sponsor
Jul 10, 2007
2,493
2,570
I do really like our young players and prospects. So I'm fine with the rebuild so far.

The problem isn't the young pieces. The problem is the older pieces (Manson, Rakell, Silf, Henrique among others) that Murray has not monetized. The kings accelerated their rebuild by trading Muzin, Martinez, Toffoli, Cambell, Clifford, and Pearson.
 

91Fedorov

John (Gibson) 3:16
Dec 30, 2013
1,229
727
My point was that LA didn't really do anything last year and people here are blasting BM for doing nothing. Like you said, LA was sucking sooner than we were so it could be argued we are now where they were last year. Up to this summer people were claiming LA was doing it right.... Just kind of point out the double standard.
My bad, I took your post the wrong way. I agree with you.
 
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Masch78

Registered User
Oct 5, 2017
2,476
1,603
The problem isn't the young pieces. The problem is the older pieces (Manson, Rakell, Silf, Henrique among others) that Murray has not monetized. The kings accelerated their rebuild by trading Muzin, Martinez, Toffoli, Cambell, Clifford, and Pearson.

You can't ice a youth team.
 
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JabbaJabba

Registered User
Dec 22, 2010
7,577
2,809
Finland
Which prospects do you think will get a shot in next season's roster? Are there any besides Zegras and Drysdale?
 
Aug 11, 2011
28,352
22,224
Am Yisrael Chai
How about those who watched the Gulls what do you think of Limoges' chances when(/if?) he's signed?
Limoges took a short journey from point-collector to line driver for SD. If he continues on that trajectory there's no reason he couldn't push for a middle six spot. Smart player, good speed, good vision, pretty good finish. He'd have to keep developing though.
 

Hockey Duckie

Registered User
Jul 25, 2003
17,556
12,464
southern cal
The problem isn't the young pieces. The problem is the older pieces (Manson, Rakell, Silf, Henrique among others) that Murray has not monetized. The kings accelerated their rebuild by trading Muzin, Martinez, Toffoli, Cambell, Clifford, and Pearson.

It's a combination of both. People purposely omit older pieces in Eaves and Kelser because they cannot be traded due to health reasons as the reason for not being able to play. Perry was bought out. That's 3 out of 4 of our top-end older players. Their absence actually accelerated the rebuild. Remember, we went to Western Conference Finals in 2017. We still managed to get into the playoffs in 2017-2018 while missing Eaves and 1/2 Kesler. We are already running thin on veteran players with talent. Perry fell to injury in 2018-19, which gave us #9 overall in 2019 draft, C Zegras. We traded Monty and acquired another 2019 first round pick, 29th in LW Tracey. In 2019-20, we stood pat and was gifted the 6th overall in the 2020 draft, RHD Drysdale. We also took on a cap dump in a trade to help facilitate another first round pick, 27th in RW Perreault. In 2020-21, we added D Shat and not much else to be gifted #3 in the 2021 draft.

All I am going to say is the Ducks are so lucky Zegras and Drysdale fell into our laps... We would be all time bad without those two giving us hope.

Having Zegras and Drysdale exposes the vast differences in talent compared to all pre-2019 talents save G Dostal. Out of all of the youth movement first rounders from 2014-2018, none have really stood out. Comtois is a 2017 second rounder. 2014 second rounders gave us defensemen Pettersson and Montour.

First round picks, 2014 - 18
2014: LW Ritchie #10
2015: D Larsson #27
2016: LW Jones #24, C Steel #30
2017: == Traded for Eaves ==
2018: C Lundestrom #23​

Our brightest star pre-2019 was RW Kase, but he was made of glass. Although 22-year old LW Comtois took a huge jump this year, his improvement was still overshadowed by 19-year old Zegras and 18-year old Drysdale at the NHL level. Again, this exposes that lack of top-end talent the org has pre-2019.

In a way, it's fortuitous that we haven't had any pre-2019 prospect jump up in improvement to carry the Ducks because we have been finishing in the top-10 for the past three seasons. As for comparisons with the Kings, it was the Kings' older, veteran players carrying the team last year whereas the Ducks' youth carrying the team last year.

Kings Top-5 scorers, 2021
2020-21Record21-28-749 points
LAKingsTop-5Scorers
RankPlayerAgeGamesGAPtsPPG
1Kopitar33561337500.89
2Doughty3156826340.61
3Brown36491714310.63
4Iafallo27551317300.55
5Kempe24561415290.52
Top-5Avg Age30.2
Top-3Avg Age33.3
[TBODY] [/TBODY]


Ducks Top-5 scorers, 2021
2020-21Record17-30-943 points
AnaheimDucksTop-5Scorers
RankPlayerAgeGamesGAPtsPPG
1Comtois22551617330.60
2Rakell2752919280.54
3Fowler2956518230.41
4Henrique3045129210.47
5Terry2348713200.42
Top-5Avg Age26.2
Top-3Avg Age26
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Although our prospects pre-2019 aren't amazing, they are at least producing and revealing they are beginning to carry the team. The difference between the Kings and Ducks last year are 6 points. That's it?! We're expecting both Zegras and Drysdale to compete for the Calder next season. RW Perreault is on a fast track, especially if he stays in the AHL next season too. The Kings aren't that far ahead of the Ducks, but the Ducks already know they have NHL franchise players in both Zegras and Drysdale today.
 

Masch78

Registered User
Oct 5, 2017
2,476
1,603
All I am going to say is the Ducks are so lucky Zegras and Drysdale fell into our laps... We would be all time bad without those two giving us hope.

I love them both, but we would have some other prospects. Sanderson will be a good one too. And there are some fine players out of 2019 as well. Only time will tell.
 

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