How do we not have a defense?

[Crysis]

Tied for second most goals for. Tied for second most goals against.

How did Dubas not see this coming? How in the hell do you trade our best defensive forward for more offensive D which we didn't even need? I'm so confused with this entire situation. Why does Dubas suck so bad at building a D core?

Our forwards are stacked but we NEED defenders that can actually defend. Why is it the same problem year after year? I thought with the Muzzin deal we might be headed in the right direction, I was sorely mistaken.

Fire Dubas. Fire Babcock. Fire Shanahan.

Click to read more...

 

[robertmac43]

Our forwards are stacked but we NEED defenders that can actually defend. Why is it the same problem year after year? I thought with the Muzzin deal we might be headed in the right direction, I was sorely mistaken.

He is only one guy

 

[Polaris1010]

Fire Dubas. Fire Babcock. Fire Shanahan.

I say fire Dubas and fire Shanahan. But keep the coach. He's done a better job and this will annoy people. No one can troll Leafs Nation better than the man called Babs.

Other than that, I agree with you. The off-season moves I found really surprising.

I did not like the off-seasons moves, but hey, I just watch the team. Not my job. As it turns out, they did not know what they were doing making those moves.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

Is the forward group even stacked? I only see 4 forwards who belong in the top 6 of a good NHL team. Matthews, Tavares, Marner, Nylander are the only legit top 6 forwards on the team.

 

[Menzinger]

Is the forward group even stacked? I only see 4 forwards who belong in the top 6 of a good NHL team. Matthews, Tavares, Marner, Nylander are the only legit top 6 forwards on the team.

Johnsson and Kapanen are absolutely top six quality. Though ultimately the league has sort of moved away from that top six bottom six format to more of top 9 + 4th line. And Kerfoot is above average for a 3c in that context

 

[DavePoulin4PM]

Here is the thing I find interesting about the defence situation. I don’t think individually the defense is playing bad aside from Barrie. The fly out of the zone by Barrie on that goal tonight was terrible, though.

Rielly- Looked great at the start of the year. I am 95% sure he is playing through a bad injury right now. He is not playing well for his standards but he is still serviceable.

Muzzin- playing at a high level. What are the complaints? There should be none.

Ceci- I know people don’t like him.. but he is serviceable and does a lot of heavy lifting. When he makes the odd egregious error it is very bad, but overall he is a #5 at worst on most teams in this league.

Barrie- tire fire in every way. There is nothing the coaching staff can do at this point. He needs to play his way out of this. Coaching will do nothing. His problem lies with him and him only. He was never a great dman and was a poor addition, but he is a hell of a lot better than he is showing.

Dermott- Has looked good in return, much better than I thought.

Holl- was not a believer.. but he is again playing well and even Greg Millen has been praising him. I think most would agree he is playing well.

So where does the issue lie?

1)It’s with the forwards. The other teams D are constantly pinching, without any sort of resistance from the forwards. IDK how many times we have to watch defense pinch and our wingers can’t win a battle. The forwards do not seem to block many shots, I have not looked at the numbers just going by eye test. Our forwards do not make life difficult on the opposition. Imagine being a defenseman for the Leafs and having to get bludgeoned to death every game, while the other teams defense can free wheel all game? Its pathetic

2) The defense is not a good mix. They need someone besides Muzzin who is physical. I would try to add a physical #5-7.

The Leafs also have what I would consider to be a top 5-7 goalie in the league. This garbage is unacceptable.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

Johnsson and Kapanen are absolutely top six quality. Though ultimately the league has sort of moved away from that top six bottom six format to more of top 9 + 4th line. And Kerfoot is above average for a 3c in that context

On a bubble team Kapanen and Johnson are fine in the top 6 but on a contender you absolutely need better secondary scoring than that...

 

[LeafingTheWay]

It's not the actual defensemen that are the issue.

It's the team-defense. It's the system. It's Babcock.

There is no contending team that does not have forwards supporting their D worse than the Leafs, and that's thanks to Babcock's system.

I have tons of patience, but I sincerely think it's time Keefe came in.

 

[Zybalto]

It's not the actual defensemen that are the issue.

It's the team-defense. It's the system. It's Babcock.

I think Barrie is an issue....a pretty big one.

I'm fine with the other ones really.

 

[robertmac43]

Rielly- Looked great at the start of the year. I am 95% sure he is playing through a bad injury right now. He is not playing well for his standards but he is still serviceable.

Muzzin- playing at a high level. What are the complaints? There should be none.

Ceci- I know people don’t like him.. but he is serviceable and does a lot of heavy lifting. When he makes the odd egregious error it is very bad, but overall he is a #5 at worst on most teams in this league.

Barrie- tire fire in every way. There is nothing the coaching staff can do at this point. He needs to play his way out of this. Coaching will do nothing. His problem lies with him and him only. He was never a great dman and was a poor addition, but he is a hell of a lot better than he is showing.

Dermott- Has looked good in return, much better than I thought.

Holl- was not a believer.. but he is again playing well and even Greg Millen has been praising him. I think most would agree he is playing well.

So where does the issue lie?

The issue could be that the above is not good enough. Even Muzzin playing a ta high level has not been enough to shut down really anyone.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

I think Barrie is an issue....a pretty big one.

I'm fine with the other ones really.

He hasn't been great so far.

But this is worst year by far. His PDO is also way below his career normal, and everything.

I don't believe for one second he'll continue being this bad.

 

[Zybalto]

He hasn't been great so far.

But this is worst year by far. His PDO is also way below his career normal, and everything.

I don't believe for one second he'll continue being this bad.

just gotta keep being patient I guess.

 

[Zybalto]

What big minute dmen have been the most important to their teams this year.....

Top 10 xGF%/60 REL for D this year in the NHL (75 dmen with at least 300 5v5 minutes so far):

1. Ekblad
2. Theodore
3. Ellis
4. Josi
5. McAvoy
6. Dillon
7. Fowler
8. Ceci
9. Provorov
10. Slavin

Yea, Ceci may be a bit underrated at the same time some other players playing like crap are making him stand out more....

 

[8816 others]

You'd have to go back decades to find a consistently good defense for the Leafs.

Defense is the least selfish and least appreciated aspect of the game. They don't hand out Noris trophies to defensive d men, they don't hand out Selke trophies to defensive forwards unless they also put up points.

Why is this not an issue for all 31 teams? Why is it always a problem for the Leafs no matter the roster, the coach, the system?
- Because this team is selfish.

It makes so much money, it's hard for anyone to resist. Everyone with the ability to make a difference on the ice or to the system, decides to look out for themselves and their bank account. Who can blame them really?

The team needs a culture change.

 

[Teeder Keon]

Barrie / Ceci

 

[ZEBROA]

When something dont work, try something else. Coach... system.. lines... players... preparation... game coaching...

 

[Notsince67]

Tied for second most goals for. Tied for second most goals against.

How did Dubas not see this coming? How in the hell do you trade our best defensive forward for more offensive D which we didn't even need? I'm so confused with this entire situation. Why does Dubas suck so bad at building a D core?

Our forwards are stacked but we NEED defenders that can actually defend. Why is it the same problem year after year? I thought with the Muzzin deal we might be headed in the right direction, I was sorely mistaken.

Fire Dubas. Fire Babcock. Fire Shanahan.

When you have a creative playmaker like Marner focused on defensive issues and a dman like barrie, flying out of the dzone before the puck is out, tells me that the roles have been completely screwed up. Why is the whole team focused on a quick transition just to see a dump in? Im not against all dump ins but it is becoming a lazy go to play when the puck has been moved up with zero offensive structure. Even if it isnt dumped in, the puck carrier needs to slow the puck to let other players catch up and find an open lane. Bostons puck transition comes in waves of forwards who often use royal road passes to set up a high danger shot. Dump ins and high low passes rely on really fast players...something we dont really have among our top scorers and centermen.

 

[Atomos2]

What are the stats saying about this defence and Babcock's defensive system because if the stats are as bad as I think they are, it probably means Dubas isn't listening to his stats department at all.

 

[Nithoniniel]

We looked very similar with Kadri too. And he was quite overrated defensively.

The big issue is that we acquired a top pairing RD to solve our problems and he's proceeded to be one of the worst players in the league so far by many metrics. That wasn't exactly on the radar, and it's a huge blow to our game.

 

[ottawah]

On a bubble team Kapanen and Johnson are fine in the top 6 but on a contender you absolutely need better secondary scoring than that...

Not really. They are on pace for 49 and 45 points.

Last years Stanley cup winning forward scorers 4-6 : 48/38/36/
Year before? 47/38/35
Year before? 53/44/37
Year before? 51/40/32

So scorers 4 was 50 points , 5 was 40 points and 6 was 35 points on average.

So if those two end up just as they have been doing so far, their production is marginally better than the last 4 stanley cup winners. That certainly is workable.

The issue is team defensive shortcomings.

 

[horner]

Our defence in a nutshell.
Johnson drop backs a puck to Nylander with two islander players around him .
Nylander miss plays the puck .
A man left wide open .
Goal

We are to weak on the puck
We make dumb desisions
We don't have a clue about coverage.

That has been our team defense for three yrs .

iam not picking in Nylander.

 

[horner]

All our players are way to weak on the puck .

You watch the islander and they wanted the puck so bad .

Casey Cizikas all determination

 

[Faltorvo]

On a bubble team Kapanen and Johnson are fine in the top 6 but on a contender you absolutely need better secondary scoring than that...

wooooahhhh hang on

show me top teams #5,6 forwards that are better then kappy/aj

 

[Leafsfan74]

Tied for second most goals for. Tied for second most goals against.

How did Dubas not see this coming? How in the hell do you trade our best defensive forward for more offensive D which we didn't even need? I'm so confused with this entire situation. Why does Dubas suck so bad at building a D core?

Our forwards are stacked but we NEED defenders that can actually defend. Why is it the same problem year after year? I thought with the Muzzin deal we might be headed in the right direction, I was sorely mistaken.

Fire Dubas. Fire Babcock. Fire Shanahan.

How?

Cap issues.

You know who to blame for that.

 

[Buds17]

Team defence, the PK, goaltending, coaching...there's overlap in terms of team struggles.

It looks like the Leafs can currently keep the pace with all but one team offensively. However, that one team is also superior in another way...they concede less.