How Do We Fix The Defense?

[Icebreakers]

We would need a solid top 3 dman from free agency. Bad news is that there is essentially no one realistically available besides Gardiner this year and Pietrangelo/Spurgeon/Brodie next year.

All of those guys are at 30 or approaching 30 looking for their last contract...so its going to be very pricey.

Problem with drafting dmen is that they are so hard to project, and even if you find one they take 3-5 years before becoming impact players (Unless if they were a top pick).

 

[F A N]

Tryamkin/Forsling/Hughes/Stecher/Hutton would be a pretty decent start to building that competent defense.

Is Forsling any better (if he manages to stay healthy) than Stecher or Hutton? The D isn't very good with Edler, Tanev, Stecher and Hutton in the lineup playing top 4 minutes. Would having more Stecher and Hutton calibre players help all that much?

It is possible that having a guy like Hughes changes the dynamic. None of us envisioned that Hamhuis and Bieksa would for such a good shutdown pairing.

I do want to see Tryamkin back though. I think he would like it better here this time around.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

Is Forsling any better (if he manages to stay healthy) than Stecher or Hutton? The D isn't very good with Edler, Tanev, Stecher and Hutton in the lineup playing top 4 minutes. Would having more Stecher and Hutton calibre players help all that much?

It is possible that having a guy like Hughes changes the dynamic. None of us envisioned that Hamhuis and Bieksa would for such a good shutdown pairing.

I do want to see Tryamkin back though. I think he would like it better here this time around.

Tram coming back would be huge for fixing this D. Not that he is some star top pairing D, but he can bump one of Pouliot/MDZ/Gudbranson off the roster will help.
Re-sign Edler to a $4M 3years contract. Have Tram back. Our D next season could look like this:
Edler-Tram
Hughes-Tanev
Hutton-Gudbranson
Still below average, and with Tanev/Edler/Gudbranson, you know there'll be a lot of injuries. But it is a start. Somehow get rid of Gudbranson going forward and sign a good RSD that can provide alittle offense (maybe Jeff Petry?), and hope ONE of Woo/Rathbone/Joulevi can cut it as a bottom pairing guy and we could be set (as in average NHL quality).

 

[canuckking1]

Through the draft.

 

[Hit the post]

None of us envisioned that Hamhuis and Bieksa would for such a good shutdown pairing.

Hamhuis was always at least solid #3 for the Preds. To my knowledge, Trotz often paired him up with a developing prospect.

 

[Bleach Clean]

We are probably a few years past the best time to sell Tanev with respect to value, and he’s certainly injury prone - but I was surprised at the prognostications that his play has declined and that he’s not good anymore...when healthy, he’s still arguably our best defender, and a top four caliber player on a lot of blue lines in the NHL. IMO.

I am surprised by this as well. I don't subscribe to the Athletic, who is saying this about him?

 

[Bleach Clean]

Rebuilding the defense is about volume. The more options, the better. My objective would be to liquidate declining assets and rebuild it from the ground up. Something like this:

Keep Hutton, Stecher and Biega (who is 30 years old and is fine as a fringe NHL/AHL dman).

1. Trade Edler to MTL at the deadline. Get Josh Brook back. That's a good right shot option added to the pipeline.

2. Trade Tanev for a right shot D or a 1st/2nd + D prospect. They need to trade Tanev this offseason because he is in decline and he has 1 year left on his deal. Get a Liljegren (unlikely, I know) or another D option back.

3. Move Gudbranson for another D prospect. If they can work out a deal with OTT to take on Ceci to get Jacob Bernard-Docker, that would be ideal. Or, target JBD alone if Dorian thinks Ceci has value.

4. Trade Del Zotto and Pouliot for D prospects and/or picks. Reasons are obvious.

5. Move any non-young forward for a D prospect and/or picks. This includes Sutter, Eriksson, Beagles etc... This provides a better chance to draft a Dman with those picks.

6. Stay away from any high end options on defense in FA. Re-sign Edler if he's not interested in staying in MTL. Maybe sign low end options at RHD like Sustr, Rutta and/or Jensen.

That gives you something like this for next year:

Elder-Stecher
Hutton-Biega
Hughes-Ceci
Juolevi-Jensen

Now granted, that defense is probably weaker than the one we have now, but it has Brook, Woo, Tryamkin, Liljegren, Bernard-Docker, Rathbone and other options in the system. Hughes and Juolevi are both in the top8 as well. The left side should be stronger, and depending upon what you think of Gudbranson, the downgrade on the right side is Tanev.

 

[forty47seven]

Is Forsling any better (if he manages to stay healthy) than Stecher or Hutton? The D isn't very good with Edler, Tanev, Stecher and Hutton in the lineup playing top 4 minutes. Would having more Stecher and Hutton calibre players help all that much?

It is possible that having a guy like Hughes changes the dynamic. None of us envisioned that Hamhuis and Bieksa would for such a good shutdown pairing.

I do want to see Tryamkin back though. I think he would like it better here this time around.

Edler and Tanev have missed a bunch of time already. That top 4 is 12-7-1 in 20 games together. Things start to be a problem when Pouliot, Del Zotto and Gudbranson have to play up the depth chart.

Forsling's probably is in that same teir as Hutton and Stetcher but he's also 2-3 years younger. He made the NHL at 20 and still has the potential to be better at the same age.

I asked the Blackhawks forum how they thought Forsling was playing and what his potential is. This is the response I got:

Good enough. The potential is there to be a keeper although consistency is still a factor. He has a minor shoulder injury ... so he's missed a few more games.

He has the potential to be a legit top two pairing in the near future.

He's missed the last week or so with a shoulder injury, so we'd all would like him to be a little less injury prone, but all in all he's been good. A steady two-way top 4 LD that is only 22.

Still get a bit of a young Hjalmarsson vibe with him. Not as good at shot-blocking, but with a better offensive game.

Forsling would look good on most teams. He’s had solid positioning and has moved the puck well. Last year his big issue was he avoided contact which impacted him making plays but he has not had that issue this season. He has had actually engaged physically. I think he ends up as a 2-3 IF he can stay healthy. Clearly JC trusts him.

I see him as more of a 3-4 guy in the future.

Forsling is a definite upgrade over MDZ or Pouliot right now. I can't see how adding another, at worst, top 4 tweener to the bottom half of this blueline wouldn't be a postivie.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

I am surprised by this as well. I don't subscribe to the Athletic, who is saying this about him?

I believe the article writer was the fellow Botchford refers to as “Boy Genius”. His name escapes me - Arman? Aman?

And then Botchford himself seemed to reinforce that claim.

 

[bandwagonesque]

Edler and Tanev have missed a bunch of time already. That top 4 is 12-7-1 in 20 games together. Things start to be a problem when Pouliot, Del Zotto and Gudbranson have to play up the depth chart.

Forsling's probably is in that same teir as Hutton and Stetcher but he's also 2-3 years younger. He made the NHL at 20 and still has the potential to be better at the same age.

I asked the Blackhawks forum how they thought Forsling was playing and what his potential is. This is the response I got:









Forsling is a definite upgrade over MDZ or Pouliot right now. I can't see how adding another, at worst, top 4 tweener to the bottom half of this blueline wouldn't be a postivie.

The Hawks forum is in complete denial about the necessity to rebuild and this seeps into player evaluation constantly, especially on defence.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I believe the article writer was the fellow Botchford refers to as “Boy Genius”. His name escapes me - Arman? Aman?

And then Botchford himself seemed to reinforce that claim.

This is weird because Botchford has usually been on the side of trading Tanev to recoup prime assets. For him to pull a 180 turn now is surprising. I hope someone asks him about this.

The writer has to be Harman Dayal. I am familiar with his work on Canucks Army. He's a stats guy so it's surprising, again, that he's turning as well. I suppose the 29 game sample this year is not flattering to Tanev? (In other words, HD shouldn't be judging his play on 29 games).

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

This is weird because Botchford has usually been on the side of trading Tanev to recoup prime assets. For him to pull a 180 turn now is surprising. I hope someone asks him about this.

The writer has to be Harman Dayal. I am familiar with his work on Canucks Army. He's a stats guy so it's surprising, again, that he's turning as well. I suppose the 29 game sample this year is not flattering to Tanev? (In other words, HD shouldn't be judging his play on 29 games).

I believe Harman Dayal is the writer.

Edit:

 

[Blue and Green]

4. Trade Del Zotto and Pouliot for D prospects and/or picks. Reasons are obvious.

5. Move any non-young forward for a D prospect and/or picks. This includes Sutter, Eriksson, Beagles etc... This provides a better chance to draft a Dman with those picks.

No team is going to give up any asset for Del Zotto, a part-time player on a weak defensive corps with a $3M salary. Pouliot, maybe a 6th or 7th round pick just because he's cheaper and two years from UFA, but he'd be of no real use to a playoff team. No team is going to trade for Eriksson with that contract. Beagle just got here and I doubt he'd fetch very much, especially with what seems like a rather generous and lengthy contract relative to his value. The only viable trade chip among these guys is Sutter.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I believe Harman Dayal is the writer.

Edit:

Harman really needs to check his sample size for the inferences he’s making. If I were on Twitter, that would be my first message to him.

 

[NoShowWilly]

Harman really needs to check his sample size for the inferences he’s making. If I were on Twitter, that would be my first message to him.

Maybe you should read the article.

 

[forty47seven]

The Hawks forum is in complete denial about the necessity to rebuild and this seeps into player evaluation constantly, especially on defence.

If you want to brush it off as anecdotal hyperbole, that's fine. I think there's some value in firsthand accounts especially when there seems to be somewhat of a consensus. I gave 4 opinions that ranged from him being a #5 with 3-4 potential to being a #4 with 2-3 potential. Even if you take the more conservative view, which is likey more truthful, he's still a better option than Pouliot or MDZ.

If Forsling was never traded, he would be one the Canuck's highest ranked prospects/young players. M2B would've been ing the crap out of this guy the past four seasons. In 2016, he tied Victor Hedman for 2nd in all-time U20 single season points by a Dman in the SHL. He made the NHL the following year at 20 and put up offence at a 0.35 PPG pace in 52 games as a 21/22 year old. Statistically speaking, he's been steadily progressing.

 

[bandwagonesque]

If you want to brush it off as anecdotal hyperbole, that's fine. I think there's some value in firsthand accounts especially when there seems to be somewhat of a consensus. I gave 4 opinions that ranged from him being a #5 with 3-4 potential to being a #4 with 2-3 potential. Even if you take the more conservative view, which is likey more truthful, he's still a better option than Pouliot or MDZ.

If Forsling was never traded, he would be one the Canuck's highest ranked prospects/young players. M2B would've been ing the crap out of this guy the past four seasons. In 2016, he tied Victor Hedman for 2nd in all-time U20 single season points by a Dman in the SHL. He made the NHL the following year at 20 and put up offence at a 0.35 PPG pace in 52 games as a 21/22 year old. Statistically speaking, he's been steadily progressing.

Based on what I've seen on that board I'm nearly certain it's hyperbole. He's 22 and hasn't stuck consistently on one of the league's thinnest defenses. Calling him at worst a top 4 tweener is likely also hyperbole. He isn't that now.

 

[forty47seven]

Based on what I've seen on that board I'm nearly certain it's hyperbole. He's 22 and hasn't stuck consistently on one of the league's thinnest defenses. Calling him at worst a top 4 tweener is likely also hyperbole. He isn't that now.

Fair enough, I can't say that with certainty.

He has "stuck" with the Blackhawks at this point. He started the season on IR from offseason wrist surgery. His 5 games in the AHL was effectively a conditioning stint. I doubt he goes back down.

 

[Bubbles]

Will people stop talking about Forsling? He's gone, deal with it.

I don't know why Philip Holm was never given a fair shake...I thought he did well in the AHL.

Re-sign Edler and Tanev, there aren't many good options in the free agent market, and these guys can help tutor the young guys like Hughes and Juolevi.

Sign a free agent from Europe. I'm afraid it's one of those things you have to draft your way out. Or pick on a team that has salary cap issues or straight up "hate" defenseman (aka Carolina Hurricanes)

 

[DomY]

I think the easiest way to supplement the defence would be in-house improvements and arrivals:
- Elevate Hutton and Stetcher to Top Pairing minutes, to see what you got. Hutton seems to get stronger with more minutes.
- Sign / Call up Hughes and Juolevi
- Trade for Dante Fabbro
- Let Edler walk / trade him at the deadline
- Bring back Tryamkin in 2020

2019 vs 2018:
Hutton / Stetcher < Edler / Tanev
Hughes / Tanev > Hutton / Stetcher
Juolevi / Gudbranson / Fabbro >> Del Zotto / Pouliot / Gudbranson

 

[Var]

2019 vs 2018:
Hutton / Stetcher < Edler / Tanev
Hughes / Tanev > Hutton / Stetcher
Juolevi / Gudbranson / Fabbro >> Del Zotto / Pouliot / Gudbranson

So:
Hutton / Tanev
Tanev / Hutton
Gudbranson / Gudbranson

 

[DomY]

I mean I thought it was pretty clear:

In:
Hughes, Juolevi, Fabbro

Out:
Tanev, Del Zotto, Pouliot

Hutton and Stetcher playing increased minutes, Tanev fewer, Juolevi and Fabbro upgrades over Del Zotto and Pouliot. Gudbranson moving back to the left playing with Fabbro.

As a whole, all these changes should be an improvement overall even if Hutton/Stetcher aren't that good of a top pairing. And maybe Hughes will end up playing 25m a night like Heiskanen did right away.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Maybe you should read the article.

I’m not an Athletic subscriber. Can you elaborate? I see the beginning portion of HD’s article referring to Tanev’s decline per the numbers, even though HD knows not to infer from such a short sample.

 

[Luck 6]

We really need our two top 10 picks to amount to top 4 defensemen. If Juolevi and Hughes can both do that, and hopefully one of our other prospect defensemen develop better than expected and can take on a similar role, then we are fine. We will need to grab someone in free agency, and hope Tryamkin returns, but we'll at least have the right pieces in place. Now, Juolevi and Hughes are not sure things, and that's where I am a bit nervous. It looks like our forward group will be ready to compete in the playoffs within a year or two, having our defense lagging behind them by an additional 3 years will certainly shorten our next window. It is hard to build defensemen through the draft, they take longer than forwards to develop and are so difficult to properly forecast.

 

[Melvin]

I’m not an Athletic subscriber. Can you elaborate? I see the beginning portion of HD’s article referring to Tanev’s decline per the numbers, even though HD knows not to infer from such a short sample.

He addresses the small sample size and goes into great detail on tanevs play. It's an excellent article and making the kind of statements you are making without reading the article is frankly foolish.

Most notably, he says that he thinks tanev is as good as ever but echoes a lot of people on here in thinking he's been playing hurt and wonders if he will ever be healthy enough to get the kind of value we would want in a trade.