How Do We Fix The Defense?

[WetcoastOrca]

How do you fix the defense?
Need to sign at least one decent free agent or make a trade. Preferably two which is how most teams do it. Look at the last go round. Ehrhoff through a trade. Hamhuis as a FA.
Then a couple of prospects need to hit quickly. Hughes and ?
Juolevi? Woo? We may get a surprise like Tanev or Hutton were in this group.
Based on the past deals it’s hard to have confidence in this management group making that free agent signing or trade though.

 

[RandV]

I really like the idea of stealing a high quality (but perhaps currently underperforming) d-man who needs a change of scenery via a trade for one of our promising rookie forwards like Lind or Gadjovitch , but at this point that seems so unlikely it's like wishing to find a big bag of money under my chair.

(looks under chair)

I mean, it's unlikely, but it's not IMPOSSIBLE. Canucks traded Patrick White who never played a game in the NHL for Ehrhoff, did they not?

Technically we were trading a 2nd round pick, the compensation to be received for White not signing. And let's keep things in perspective, it was training camp (or just after) and San Jose needed to cut some salary, plus Ehrhoff wasn't without his flaws. I believe Sharks fans used to refer to him as "Errorhoff", or something like that. Whether it was luck or skill this was a shrewd pro scouting move identifying a available asset that would be much more valuable playing in our system. It's highly unlikely Benning would be able to pull off something similar.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Would this be the appropriate thread to ask why the Canucks beat writers in the Athletic are piling on and saying Tanev is a poor hockey player with no trade value?

 

[LeftCoast]

I don't think there is a quick fix for the D - short of Quinn Hughes being the second coming of Scott Niedermayer as a rookie.

There are incremental steps. Firstly, addition by subtraction. The weakest points on the D are MDZ and Pouliot; both are free agents (UFA/RFA) this spring. It would make some sense to move one or both at the deadline for a mid-round pick. It's possible Gudbransson could be moved, but with 3 1/2 years remaining at $4M per that is a difficult task.

Addition by subtraction only works when you have someone else ready to take those spots / minutes. Olli Juolevi was progressing in his first season in the AHL, but the ankle injury was a set back. I'm not sure if he will be ready to take regular NHL minutes down the stretch. He was playing high minutes in Utica and generating offense, but his defensive coverage was not great. If he progresses to the point where he can play 3rd pairing minutes as an NHL rookie without hurting the team, it will allow them to move MDZ and Pouliot.

Quinn Hughes is going to get some games towards the end of the season, but who knows when his Michigan season will end?

Next up on the depth chart in Utica are Jalen Chatfield, Guillaume Brisebois and Ashton Sautner. Are any of these an improvement over MDZ or Pouliot at this point?

So where does that leave us? College free agents, European free agents, a trade or the summer UFA window.

I don't think an Edler or Tanev trade is in the cards, and honestly, we would be lucky to find a UFA defender as cheap as Edler or Tanev who are anywhere near as good. IMO the most sensible approach is to re-sign Edler if he will sign a shorter term (2 - 3 year) deal.

I expect there is a Sam Gagner trade in the future. Granlund and Baertschi are also potential trade bait. Granlund is a decent utility player who can any forward position on any line well enough but on a good team should not be a regular in the top 6. Adam Gaudette will fill this utility role going forward, and he would provide cheap utility without a long term commitment to a playoff team with injuries. But none of these moves will garner a top 4 defender under 30.

Tryamkin? I think he still has 1 year remaining on his KHL deal and even if he voided that deal and signed with the Canucks in the summer. After 2 years in the KHL he may not be the same player we saw in 2016-17. He has also shown signs of being a bit headstrong and a challenge to coach. IF he comes back to the NHL and IF he is an effective player I would count it as an unexpected bonus.

Edit: Improved goal tending will also help the D. It really hurt our D when Nilsson went down and Green played Markstrom for a ridiculous string of consecutive starts. Both look better with some rest.

 

[TruGr1t]

Would this be the appropriate thread to ask why the Canucks beat writers in the Athletic are piling on and saying Tanev is a poor hockey player with no trade value?

I don't think Tanev has much trade value at all, but that's more due to age and injury history.

 

[Cupless44]

Would this be the appropriate thread to ask why the Canucks beat writers in the Athletic are piling on and saying Tanev is a poor hockey player with no trade value?

Because it’s true. His value has tanked and his play is declining. Have you watched him this year?

I have always thought Tanev is over rated in Vancouver and the trade ransoms expected on this board have been laughable at times. The time to move him for a good return was two years ago. Nonsense that the defence would have been terrible without him. They have been terrible WITH him on the way to bottom five finishes.

 

[Ryp37]

Because it’s true. His value has tanked and his play is declining. Have you watched him this year?

I have always thought Tanev is over rated in Vancouver and the trade ransoms expected on this board have been laughable at times. The time to move him for a good return was two years ago. Nonsense that the defence would have been terrible without him. They have been terrible WITH him on the way to bottom five finishes.

He's definitely looked off to start but has been better lately.

I also disagree. People don't appreciate Tanev enough, or Edler for that matter, and they only way they'll realize this is when they aren't there to matchup against other teams top lines.

 

[valkynax]

step 1: fire Dim Jim
step 2: build a fence with draft picks so that fat f*** can't ever EVER come near the organization again

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Would this be the appropriate thread to ask why the Canucks beat writers in the Athletic are piling on and saying Tanev is a poor hockey player with no trade value?

His play has deteriorated and he has the reputation of a really injury prone player.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Would this be the appropriate thread to ask why the Canucks beat writers in the Athletic are piling on and saying Tanev is a poor hockey player with no trade value?

I think Tanev still has good value. We’ve already seen that defensemen typically get traded at a premium. I mean look at the prices we’ve seen paid in the past and there are a lot of teams looking for an affordable top 3 defenseman. High demand and low supply.
If you’re a cup contender he would be a great add and could push the team over the top.

 

[Fire Benning]

Even ignoring his injury history, Tanev is probably undervalued around the league as is because he never had the pedigree of a highly touted prospect, isn't a big meanie/physical defenseman, doesn't put up points, and now is a year away from unrestricted free agency.

 

[VanJack]

No real quick fixes for the Canucks blueline unfortunately. It's the same scenario every year. Once Tanev and Edler go down, the lack of bluieline depth basically sinks them. Trying to move Gudbranson, Hutton, Pouliot or Stecher into a top-two role predictably produces disastrous results.

Makes it all the more baffling, that when facing a 'black-hole' in organizational depth on the blueline, Jimbo opted to over-pay for three veteran third-fourth line forwards in free agency.

If they can woo Trymakin back; sign Quinn Hughes; and if Juolevi takes another step, that might go a long way towards fixing things. But they're still sorely lacking right-side d-men. So Woo might have to be fast-tracked.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

We are probably a few years past the best time to sell Tanev with respect to value, and he’s certainly injury prone - but I was surprised at the prognostications that his play has declined and that he’s not good anymore...when healthy, he’s still arguably our best defender, and a top four caliber player on a lot of blue lines in the NHL. IMO.

 

[Canucks1096]

They need to find another Schaefer for Salo type of deal. Good 3rd liner for a top 3 D. Easier said than done

 

[VanJack]

Canucks needed somebody drafted in latter half of the draft to break out....somebody like Bieksa, Salo or Sopel....unfortunately a string of guys like Liberati, Olson, Neill, Gunnarson, Stewart, Cederholm, Subban and Williamson basically all busted hard...some of them didn't even get signed.

Rathbone might work out. Obviously they're rolling the dice on overage CHL free agents like Chatfield and Eliot. But basically the only guy who looked like he was really going to develop was Tryamkin, and of course he bolted to the KHL.

And on the free agent market, the Canucks have bottomed out trading valuable picks for guys like Clendening, Pouliot and Gudbranson. But I suppose if you keep trying, somebody like Woo has to work out eventually. Right?

 

[RandV]

I don't think Tanev has much trade value at all, but that's more due to age and injury history.

I can't comment on Tanev's current play but I've never really bought the injury history part. Often when a player/manager/etc becomes involved in a lot of discussion on HFBoards certain tropes can develop and opinions begin to distort reality, especially when the Toronto fanbase is involved. While injuries/health are something an inquiring team would need to look at, it's not a value crippling issue many Leaf fans would suggest.

Actual NHL GM's don't put nearly as much thought in such risk aversion. Injury prone NHL players who were traded is kind of a narrow scope so this is better seen in free agent signings, where there's a massive gap between fan perception and actual results. If a GM thinks Chris Tanev is the dman they need to push for the Cup, they're not going to hesitate because he might get injured in the playoffs.

Reality is the biggest factor in Tanev's 'trade value' has always been Jim Benning's willingness to trade him. Considering how thin our blueline has always been and how we're always trying to be 'competitive' it's most likely that despite all the fan chatter he's just never actually been available.

 

[Var]

I think by and large we're going in the right direction. It's hard to say that at 14-16-4 but with Hughes and various other Dmen in our system, we're working towards it. It's not an overnight fix, but the kinds of overnight fixes that we could act on could either jeopardize the future contracts for our upcoming young players or give up on our prospect or draft pool. Because we're not deep enough to make trading an option, we'll simply rely on our draft position and Utica player development to bolster our team. If the team is positioning to be a contender in 2/3 years, being patient is the right approach and it looks like that's what we're doing.

Hopefully free agent Dmen become available at a reasonable prices, but there are a lot of teams hungry for those as well. ChilliBilly had a good post saying we should be trying to hang on to Edler. There are D much worse than him and you won't be saddled with a long contract.

 

[Phenomenon13]

The only way we fix the defense is by drafting good defenseman. We need a number one guy. I don't believe we have one in the system.

 

[Catamarca Livin]

I hope Hughes, OJ, Tryamkin and Woo might be part of the solution. Tanev and Edler would be a good 4-5 dmen if not sign Ufa to replace one with salary saved.

 

[Tim Calhoun]

Edler - Tanev
Hutton - Biega

is actually not a bad top-4. Green would be wise to ride those four guys 45-50 minutes/night (22-25 min per player) and pray to the heavens that none of them gets injured, if he wants the team to be competitive every game.

Oh, and it’s worth pointing out that the current regime inherited those four players.

 

[Var]

The other thing I was going to say was that Biega, Stetcher, and Hutton are still young. On Sportsnet650, they were saying Stetcher had a great game vs Philly and for these younger Dmen, a bit of time might be the answer. Having Edler back seems to have been big.

 

[forty47seven]

Canucks needed somebody drafted in latter half of the draft to break out....somebody like Bieksa, Salo or Sopel....unfortunately a string of guys like Liberati, Olson, Neill, Gunnarson, Stewart, Cederholm, Subban and Williamson basically all busted hard...some of them didn't even get signed.

Rathbone might work out. Obviously they're rolling the dice on overage CHL free agents like Chatfield and Eliot. But basically the only guy who looked like he was really going to develop was Tryamkin, and of course he bolted to the KHL.

And on the free agent market, the Canucks have bottomed out trading valuable picks for guys like Clendening, Pouliot and Gudbranson. But I suppose if you keep trying, somebody like Woo has to work out eventually. Right?

Gustav Forsling would be awesome right about now...

 

[PG Canuck]

Tryamkin/Forsling/Hughes/Stecher/Hutton would be a pretty decent start to building that competent defense.

Then some absolute massive wildcards in Woo and Rathbone.

Then, uhhhh, hopeful (?) in Juolevi.

The first five names mentioned are NHL players now. Tryamkin would be but yknow. If ONE or even none of Juolevi or the two wildcards pan out or someone we draft, we could pursue some free agent dmen by throwing some money around to fill the top 4 hole.

 

[WTG]

I think Edler is a solid top 4 defenseman and probably will continue to be one for a few more years.
But holy hell watching him on the PP he looks like a piece of wood. I'd describe his play as blocky.
I think he should be moved down to the 2nd unit and Hutton promoted up to the first. Hutton moves the puck a lot more fluidly and skates better than Edler.

 

[Var]

I think Edler is a solid top 4 defenseman and probably will continue to be one for a few more years.
But holy hell watching him on the PP he looks like a piece of wood. I'd describe his play as blocky.
I think he should be moved down to the 2nd unit and Hutton promoted up to the first. Hutton moves the puck a lot more fluidly and skates better than Edler.

Totally. The guy still has a cannon though.