How did Slovakia and Czech Republic become two amazing hockey nations?

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Slovakia has a low hockey player to population ratio, and unlike the United States and Russia, they also have a low overall population (Because despite low ratio, USA and Russia have a high absolute amount of hockey players). Czech Republic yes does have the 3rd highest hockey player to population ratio behind only Canada and Finland, which probably influences Slovakia, but that begs the question; how did the Czech Republic produce so many hockey players? In terms of absolute numbers CR has more hockey players than Russia.

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[alko]

Slovakia has a low hockey player to population ratio, and unlike the United States and Russia, they also have a low overall population (Because despite low ratio, USA and Russia have a high absolute amount of hockey players). Czech Republic yes does have the 3rd highest hockey player to population ratio behind only Canada and Finland, which probably influences Slovakia, but that begs the question; how did the Czech Republic produce so many hockey players? In terms of absolute numbers CR has more hockey players than Russia.

Somewhere i saw an article, that this number is fake. Dont know, where is t. But basically, was said, that in these numbers are also players, that didnt saw ice rink for years. And such things.

Other side, i think (some users here said it also) that ice-hockey in Russia isnt such popular as it seems to be. There is football, and its way way in front.

 

[lamini]

Somewhere i saw an article, that this number is fake. Dont know, where is t. But basically, was said, that in these numbers are also players, that didnt saw ice rink for years. And such things.

Well, funding of sport federations (by goverment) was based on number of registered players, so hockey federation was reluctant to remove players.

And why is hockey popular here? Think it goes back to the times of Austria-Hungary, when sport was one of the things where Czechs could beat hated Germans (and later during Cold War hated Soviets).

I don't think hockey is that popular in Slovakia and their great players were partialy result of them having access to Czech hockey resources.

 

[alko]

I don't think hockey is that popular in Slovakia and their great players were partialy result of them having access to Czech hockey resources.

Ice-hockey is still very popular in Slovakia. We saw big decline in the last years, but it always has his premiere spot almost everywhere. Eveyryone knows, who is Satan, Bondra ... Even Grandmas in some little village, where even flies didnt fly.
Why? I dont know. Simply, from historically point, as a member of Czechoslovakia, that was one sport, we were very good. And could beat the Soviets. Every game Vs Soviet Union was not only about sport. It was also politic. And big gala for ordinary people.

 

[Jablkon]

In 40s canadian guy Matej Buckna realized we can be good and coached our national team. If commies didnt send half of that team to uran mines, russians would never jumped so easily on int. stage in 50s. Such an openminded canadian would be also very helpful now imo

As to that numbers, its a notorious problem both in hockey and soccer here that people who hanged up their skates long time ago didnt cancel their registration. But its still super popular sport despite we cant play pond hockey anymore due to global warming

And needed to be add that some old time well known coaches claim we have strong genofond to be good in collective games.

 

[alko]

And needed to be add that some old time well known coaches claim we have strong genofond to be good in collective games.

Strong genofond to be good in collective games? What could that mean?

 

[Jablkon]

Strong genofond to be good in collective games? What could that mean?

Bruckner and Bukac mentioned that. They basically said CZ is a small country and small nation. Therefore people naturally cooperate to survive in comparison to for example US which is focused more on strong individualism. Something like canadians used to say that czechs played better when they play together. Needed to add that Bukac has repeated many time recently that with developing system we adopted we are gambling with that naturall czechs constitution.

 

[alko]

Bruckner and Bukac mentioned that. They basically said CZ is a small country and small nation. Therefore people naturally cooperate to survive in comparison to for example US which is focused more on strong individualism. Something like canadians used to say that czechs played better when they play together. Needed to add that Bukac has repeated many time recently that with developing system we adopted we are gambling with that naturall czechs constitution.

US is not so good example for this. China is. Somewhere i saw an article about experience from some coach in China national team. He basically said, its impossible to buy a good team, because people from some regions simply hate each other. There was also mentioned fight between players from the same team in a game.

 

[Jablkon]

US is not so good example for this. China is. Somewhere i saw an article about experience from some coach in China national team. He basically said, its impossible to buy a good team, because people from some regions simply hate each other. There was also mentioned fight between players from the same team in a game.

I guess they dont mean some national hate or patriotism.They meant more individual set up. This not a popular topic now as we should be cosmopolite etc. but you can see the difference among people from diff. states when you focus on what is naturall to them. Sure this is changing as other cultures are closer to you and you cleraly see the differences. I dont know about China, but these coaches said that our players or lets say all the people can not be brougt up on individual strenght basis as it is for example in US because we are small country and small nation, therefore this is not our "mentality". Because to keep this nation alive you have to help each other When you think about it, there is something in it and you see lot of signs of it in czech sports. Its like team first approach. Rittich and Satoransky came to my mind. Ok,I rather end up here

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

I guess they dont mean some national hate or patriotism.They meant more individual set up. This not a popular topic now as we should be cosmopolite etc. but you can see the difference among people from diff. states when you focus on what is naturall to them. Sure this is changing as other cultures are closer to you and you cleraly see the differences. I dont know about China, but these coaches said that our players or lets say all the people can not be brougt up on individual strenght basis as it is for example in US because we are small country and small nation, therefore this is not our "mentality". Because to keep this nation alive you have to help each other When you think about it, there is something in it and you see lot of signs of it in czech sports. Its like team first approach. Rittich and Satoransky came to my mind. Ok,I rather end up here

China is not an individualist minded nation, but at the same time people from even different provinces hate each other. Trust me I've witnessed it.

 

[Jablkon]

China is not an individualist minded nation, but at the same time people from even different provinces hate each other. Trust me I've witnessed it.

I believe, this is just not example of what I wanted to say. These czech coaches mostly pointed mentality factor and sense of cooperation. I dont know how to explain it to be honest. Shame that Bukac’s work is probably not translated to english because this guy can go really into the problem. No one can doubt it much as those guys built this program on basically completely different basis than NA. They had very academic approach to everything. I know world is global now etc., but these are things that remain same and if this is the way how to really challenge best teams, let’s be it.

This is imo the main difference between current and present coaches. Canada was too far but these guys had a target to challenge Soviets and they did everything to find way how to beat them or to have competitive program. Results werent always there but that was because of soviets quality. That itself had big influence on way how all czech teams played.

Right now there is no such a target anywhere in former Czechoslovakia. Slovaks saving their hockey and czechs? Probably want to be top 6 or want to produce more elite players.

Thats why many people dont understand to Bukac because he is still looking for the way how to be best in the world, not only to hang somewhere. He is going deep looking for all issues. Even pointed genetics. Maybe too oldschool but, imo, Canada heavily benefits from this attitude which also bring competitivness. And its not here anymore. Thats one of the reasons of current situation. Sure lot of things were done but people are just still afraid to focus on important things.In 90s another coach Wohl resignated from national team just as protest against expansion of czech league which,according to him, had neagtive impact on quality. It appeared he was right. Time changed but I dont see such a persons her.

Some changes were made, some small amount of prospects are comming, but you hear the same from czech NHL scouts. We dont make structural changes of things which dont work. We are afraid and high demand towards it is not there anymore. In past the interest of National team was first and that itself drove competition. Now clubs interests probably obstruct reducing teams in junior leagues, because everybody want to play first league etc.

We dont have that general goal. Canada has it - “its our game,gold”. USA wants to always win and we can not put ourselfs together to jump into it. Maybe its not in our mentality, but that makes difference. Thats why all of czech prospects are questionable in terms of team leaders imo. You doubt it in Pastrnak case, Hertl will probably never be that guy etc. They never experienced it. They were better in youth and were loosing in NT.

But sure its just my opinion. Still I think elite people built this program.

 

[Uncle Rotter]

In terms of absolute numbers CR has more hockey players than Russia.

No, that Russian number is ridiculously low.

 

[Jablkon]

China is not an individualist minded nation, but at the same time people from even different provinces hate each other. Trust me I've witnessed it.

If you are more interested in this issue, there is a great thread about it here http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...-to-1990-some-awards-and-stats.2395399/page-3 One enthusiast is even translating some opinions of leading persons of czech hockey from that time. Its quite shocking how valid their thoughts remain. When I consider that Mr. Kostka claimed in 1975 what kind of approach to hockey czechs should have due to disadvantage in climate conditions and geographical position.... these guys were world class. No surprise that Bukac, who is over 80 now, is ussually one year ahead in thoughts of most of the hockey people in Czech Republic.

Also his evaluation of US team one month before 1980 olympics worth to be highlighted.‘It is the strongest team, the United States ever build! It incorporated the combination game taken from European elements and the coach Herbert Brooks taught players a defense system to the extent that they do not make a mistake during their active defensive plays. Doing so while showing their counter-attacks having an enormous effort. It is the favourite of the Winter Olympic games. I´ve never seen Americans with so much motivation, with such discipline. They play sharply, but they won´t let themselves to foul too much. Everything suited them in Lake Placid now, the question is though, how well are they going to play under the international refereeing… Canadians played fantastic hockey with maximum effort on us. They wanted to prove themselves to us. They gain pressure by fast skating, unexpected shooting and immediate forchecking; they even push themselves to the goalie crease while pressing the goalie to the net. In their Olympic team there are players of smaller statures, excellent skaters who have a sense for a dangerous counter-attack. On the other hand, I have not seen Canadians so far, how they are going to handle the big ice at Lake Placid.’

 

[Sportpsych90]

I don't know if you guys have seen it yet, but theres a great documentary of the 1998 olympics about the Czech team winning gold. Its called the Nagano tapes.
The Nagano Tapes | Five Rings Films | Olympic Channel

 

[amoboko]

When talking about recent times, I do reckon that having players that really contribute in the NHL do play a big part in motivating youngsters and putting in place a standard.