How Confident Are You In Babcock?

How Confident Are You in Babcock? (Read)


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SeaOfBlue

The Passion That Unites Us All
Aug 1, 2013
35,591
16,773
I do not like how he does not use his players properly sometimes. He also has a lot of demands for a guy who is relatively unsuccessful. He can get his teams to the playoffs, but they were all teams that could have done that with a rookie coach. He has taken his team to what, two or three cup finals and one win in like 20 years of head coaching? That's okay, but he's getting paid a lot more than every other coach. He should be able to do a lot more with what he is given, because he has been given a lot.
 

unitedstars87

Registered User
Jun 2, 2006
1,207
705
Hyman - Matthews - Marner
Mango - Tavares - Kapenen
Marleau - Kadri - Nylander

Mango - Tavares - Marner
Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Brown - Kadri - Kapenen

Nylander - Matthews - Kapenen
Hyman - Tavares - Marner
Mango - Kadri - Brown

Curious to know if anyone noticed him using these lines vs Detroit? I think babcock knows the game of hockey honestly he’s a Stanley cup champion. But I just don’t get why the crap lines?
 

Kiwi

Registered User
Mar 5, 2016
21,046
15,984
The Naki
Pretty good? Zaitsev might be the worst starter in hockey.

Zaitsev was the least of our problems tonight, and the worst starter in hockey is just rediculous, that's coming from someone who wants to trade him and who's putting him out there on the 2nd pair again?

The Kings are in last place...not sure where you've been but this is in no way a model team to compare to. I think what you meant to say the Preds, the Flames, the Bruins, the Jets, the Knights, the Islanders??

I guess you misspoke and have been completely out of the loop of the 31 team NHL (they added a team last year in case you haven't heard).

The team isn't not working hard. I'm sure these players are working hard in their opinion. The problem is William Nylander's idea of "working hard" is a whole lot different than Dylan Larkin's of "working hard".

You're new to this sport clearly.

Stick to soccer Kiwi.

We play Rugby over here and been a fan for 35 years

When the Kings were successful they played a heavy cycling type game, they had the personnel to do that, this team isn't built that way and won't be successful trying either

You play to your strengths, speed and skill are our strengths, build your game plan and system with that at the forefront of your mind

I do wonder if Babcock can do that
 

Bomber0104

Registered User
Apr 8, 2007
15,037
6,872
Burlington
Hyman - Matthews - Marner
Mango - Tavares - Kapenen
Marleau - Kadri - Nylander


Mango - Tavares - Marner
Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Brown - Kadri - Kapenen

Nylander - Matthews - Kapenen
Hyman - Tavares - Marner
Mango - Kadri - Brown

Curious to know if anyone noticed him using these lines vs Detroit? I think babcock knows the game of hockey honestly he’s a Stanley cup champion. But I just don’t get why the crap lines?

He used the bolded for the bulk of the game...

And you're incorrect on the other two.

He was pairing Matthews and Tavares on the same line a few times.

You didn't notice that?
 

Bomber0104

Registered User
Apr 8, 2007
15,037
6,872
Burlington
We play Rugby over here and been a fan for 35 years

When the Kings were successful they played a heavy cycling type game, they had the personnel to do that, this team isn't built that way and won't be successful trying either

You play to your strengths, speed and skill are our strengths, build your game plan and system with that at the forefront of your mind

I do wonder if Babcock can do that

Alright well unfortunately this team is basically built to play ball-hockey / girls hockey / soccer / ballet.

When the GM decides to put men on this roster and not little boys who are afraid, then come talk to me.
 

Kiwi

Registered User
Mar 5, 2016
21,046
15,984
The Naki
Alright well unfortunately this team is basically built to play ball-hockey / girls hockey / soccer / ballet.

When the GM decides to put men on this roster and not little boys who are afraid, then come talk to me.

No, you change the coach first and if it still doesn't work you overhaul the roster since it's much much harder than changing the coach/syatem
 

IPS

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
15,501
24,595
This team would do well in ball-hockey and girls hockey, I'll say that much.
And let me guess:

Phil Kessel is a lazy locker-room cancer who'll never win a thing.

I wonder who ran away with narratives like these?!?!
 
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Bomber0104

Registered User
Apr 8, 2007
15,037
6,872
Burlington
No, you change the coach first and if it still doesn't work you overhaul the roster since it's much much harder than changing the coach/syatem

When Pat Quinn's teams didn't work out when he was GM and coach of the team, would you have suggested him firing himself?

Or should he have got better players, which he did...
 
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Bomber0104

Registered User
Apr 8, 2007
15,037
6,872
Burlington
And let me guess:

Phil Kessel is a lazy locker-room cancer who'll never win a thing.

I wonder who ran away with narratives like these?!?!

Oh I was soooooooo on board with Kessel being traded, Burke being fired, Wilson being fired, Phaneuf being traded, etc etc.

Guilty as charged ! :sarcasm:
 

IPS

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
15,501
24,595
Oh I was soooooooo on board with Kessel being traded, Burke being fired, Wilson being fired, Phaneuf being traded, etc etc.

Guilty as charged ! :sarcasm:
Oh my god you predicted kessel being traded!??! Ladies and gentlemen look at this oracle right here!!

Carlyles still a good coach, right?!?!
 

Egghead1999

Registered User
Nov 9, 2007
3,150
847
When Pat Quinn's teams didn't work out when he was GM and coach of the team, would you have suggested him firing himself?

Or should he have got better players, which he did...
Did PQ fire himself at Van?:huh:
Anyway, don't think the "dig-in" mentality works well with the young superstar after they all got their feet wet.
 

Kiwi

Registered User
Mar 5, 2016
21,046
15,984
The Naki
When Pat Quinn's teams didn't work out when he was GM and coach of the team, would you have suggested him firing himself?

Or should he have got better players, which he did...

I liked Quinn but let's not pretend he didn't leave the organization in a huge hole after his tenure here

Babcock isn't the GM, that's Dubas and if he doesn't think this team fits this coach's system or style he needs to change something

It's much easier firing the coach than making over the roster, trades aren't easy if your not looking to get reamed
 

Bomber0104

Registered User
Apr 8, 2007
15,037
6,872
Burlington
I liked Quinn but let's not pretend he didn't leave the organization in a huge hole after his tenure here

Babcock isn't the GM, that's Dubas and if he doesn't think this team fits this coach's system or style he needs to change something

It's much easier firing the coach than making over the roster, trades aren't easy if your not looking to get reamed

You didn't answer the question: when Quinn's teams weren't working out when he was coach and GM of the team, would you have him fire himself as coach?

And as a second part question: since he didn't, are you happy GM Quinn gave Coach Quinn another chance, and got the team to the Conference Finals?

Quinn had no trouble making over the roster. Dubas can too.
 

Kiwi

Registered User
Mar 5, 2016
21,046
15,984
The Naki
You didn't answer the question: when Quinn's teams weren't working out when he was coach and GM of the team, would you have him fire himself as coach?

And as a second part question: since he didn't, are you happy GM Quinn gave Coach Quinn another chance, and got the team to the Conference Finals?

Quinn had no trouble making over the roster. Dubas can too.

Quinn coached in the early 90's, it was much easier making big trades and turning over rosters in those days

We traded for Sundin, good luck pulling that off now days

Quinn is one of the reasons why we don't have coach GM'S anymore, the organization was a smoking crater by the time he was finished with all the win now moves he made

Babcock isn't the GM, Dubas is and quite honestly he's the one that should be calling the shots for the organization, not the coach
 
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Bomber0104

Registered User
Apr 8, 2007
15,037
6,872
Burlington
Quinn coached in the early 90's, it was much easier making big trades and turning over rosters in those days

We traded for Sundin, good luck pulling that off now days

Quinn is one of the reasons why we don't have coach GM'S anymore, the organization was a smoking crater by the time he was finished with all the win now moves he made

Babcock isn't the GM, Dubas is and quite honestly he's the one that should be calling the shots for the organization, not the coach

Well I hate to break it to you but Shanahan is fully aware that Babcock has far more experience than Dubas not only in winning, but in the entire sport of hockey. His job is to work the phones and do the day to day stuff. Giving weak wingers $7 million a year.

You may as well get used to it. Babcock earns more than Dubas. If anyone loses their job first it's Dubas and he's getting put back at the kids table and an actual hockey person back in charge.
 

cookie

Fresh From The Oven
Nov 24, 2009
6,922
1,425
Oven then stomach
It feels line the team plays to the level of their opposition when the game is up for grabs and only once they're down a goal or two, are they finally able to play to their strengths. They take full advantage of score effects, that is, they're more inclined to taking risks like having defensemen jumping into the play, etc.

When Babcock coached this team in year one, defenders were encouraged to, if they had enough support, disrupt zone entries, rush the puck, make small passes to transition to offense. Even the forecheck seemed to have a purpose (might be rose coloured glasses here though).

Now ever since he made it his duty to teach the team "how to play defense", the quality of play has stagnated. When was the last time our defense actively tried disrupting zone entries? Dermott used to do it, so did Gardiner, Marincin, and Rielly too. What's the most used method of clearing the zone? It's either the puck being rimmed around the half wall to a winger (with a guy all over him), chip off the glass, a stretch pass that goes for an icing, or a lob into the neutral zone.... It's boring hockey that isn't suited to the Leafs' player personnel.

Boys need a setup that highlights their speed and unfortunately the coach is not getting the hint. Not when the Leafs lead the league in icings. Not when they fail to draw as many hooking, holding, interference, or puck over the glass penalties. The structural problems are being masked by a previously prolific PP, and Andersen's exceptional goaltending...and yes, although you need a good goalie to win in the playoffs, that isn't everything. Compare the level of play with a team like Boston, even if you don't look at the first line. It's good, solid hockey that I've not been able to see from the Leafs in 80-90% of the games I've watched.
 

DanM

Registered User
Oct 2, 2017
5,584
3,516
Babcock is a great coach, and I would never pretend to think I know better than an NHL coach.

However, I do wonder if he is the right coach for this team.
 

Man Bear Pig

Registered User
Aug 10, 2008
31,072
13,864
Earth
He used the bolded for the bulk of the game...

And you're incorrect on the other two.

He was pairing Matthews and Tavares on the same line a few times.

You didn't notice that?
He puts Matthews with Tavares regularly following penalty kills. Hes been doing that all year.
 

Tmart335

Registered User
Aug 19, 2018
135
65
No, you change the coach first and if it still doesn't work you overhaul the roster since it's much much harder than changing the coach/syatem

Who do you recommend to replace Babcock?

Overhaul the roster? This is one of the best lineups I have seen the leafs have in a longtime .

You add to this roster and let the young guys grow.

Who do you suggest we trade in the overhaul? Lol you forget this team was dead last 2 years ago

Fans need to be patient and let this roster build and develop
 

ITM

As Long As It Takes
Jan 26, 2012
4,540
2,513
The main thing to keep in mind, is that being a good fan means questioning this coach’s fitness after each loss and reversing the need for that same question after each win.

And the most important part of that exercise is consistency. It demonstrates loyalty, open-mindedness and an appropriate familiarity with the game that any fan base should be envious of.

I for one am sick of the season over season improvement, the record setting rookies, talk of other individual awards and still, no Cups.

I think if we’re not in the Finals this season, that management needs to take a hard look at blowing it up again, but this time TRULY blowing it up and finding the right coach to fit the club we would be building. Preferably one without a Stanley Cup from the last...five years? And definitely no international or junior success.

What we need to do is poach a coach like Trotz. Pay the fine, incur the penalty, whatever. Most importantly, we’ll have the guy that just won the Cup!

And then...We’ll win the Cup!
 

Joedoggy

Registered User
Feb 7, 2017
929
287
Quinn coached in the early 90's, it was much easier making big trades and turning over rosters in those days

We traded for Sundin, good luck pulling that off now days

Quinn is one of the reasons why we don't have coach GM'S anymore, the organization was a smoking crater by the time he was finished with all the win now moves he made

Babcock isn't the GM, Dubas is and quite honestly he's the one that should be calling the shots for the organization, not the coach

Babcock with his salary is the GM...No gm would come in now with the contract Babcock has its just too hard to work around.
 

Joedoggy

Registered User
Feb 7, 2017
929
287
Hyman - Matthews - Marner
Mango - Tavares - Kapenen
Marleau - Kadri - Nylander

Mango - Tavares - Marner
Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Brown - Kadri - Kapenen

Nylander - Matthews - Kapenen
Hyman - Tavares - Marner
Mango - Kadri - Brown

Curious to know if anyone noticed him using these lines vs Detroit? I think babcock knows the game of hockey honestly he’s a Stanley cup champion. But I just don’t get why the crap lines?
Part of the problem is 3 lines are always show...the game requires 4.....Mikey also plays a 3 line game...its called Euro hockey
 
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