zeke
The Dube Abides
- Mar 14, 2005
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explain it any way you like, but we have a coach who plays our best players less than every other coach in the league plays theirs - and the tougher the games get, the worse he gets.
How Confident Are You In Babcock?
- Thread starter WTFMAN99
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explain it any way you like, but we have a coach who plays our best players less than every other coach in the league plays theirs - and the tougher the games get, the worse he gets.
GoonieFace
Registered User
I would guess because we have alot of good players, where teams that are not as deep have no other option.
Marner - 19:39
Tavares - 19:04
Matthews - 18:16
Kucherov - 19:31
Marchand 19:51
Hall - 19:41
Pastrnak - 19:02
Point - 18:39
Doesnt seem all that out of the ordinary. Complain away though
yet we lead the league in even-strength goals, and not risking overplaying players and risking injury/burnout/etc. Sounds like a pretty smart coach to me.
When you play your stars more, someone's icetime goes down. Raise Matthews and Tavares ice time to match Crosby and Malkin and now Kadri is only playing 14-15 mins a night instead of 16-17. What does the even more reduced icetime due to Kadri? Now people will complain Kadri isn't effective because of lack of icetime. Most of our top 9 are getting more minutes than Pitts 3rd line players. Our lack of PP time also hurts our top players overall TOI.
Bomber0104
Registered User
Incredible, we're 5th in the league in points despite Babcock willfully sabotaging our team's chances of winning (as some would have you believe).
zeke
The Dube Abides
- Mar 14, 2005
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uh huh. Matthews, one of the super elite producers in the league, plaaying 18mpg is normal.
and i notice you didn't include dmen, including our norris candidate.
and now look at PP time, and now point out the hyman and the hainsey playing on their top lines.
no use keeping the #1 unit out there if they are being shut down.
GoonieFace
Registered User
We have also had the least amount of pp opportunities in the league. We have a solid group of 7 forwards that should be getting powerplay time as well, plus Reilly and Muzzin. Thats 9 players, which equals pretty much 2 powerplay units. I don't see the issue sharing the time.
zeke
The Dube Abides
- Mar 14, 2005
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so you're fine with Matthews, one of the super elite producers in hockey, playing 18mpg.
you're fine with our top pp unit playing less than every other good unit in hockey, by a LOT.
and you're ignoring ice time distribution amongst dmen, including that of our norris candidate.
well, I disagree.
He's 83rd in ice-time among forwards.
There's 2nd line-centers like Hayes, Stepan, J. Staal, etc.. who play more than him. I've been pointing this out for years, it's completely ludicrous how little ice-time Matthews gets.
GoonieFace
Registered User
If we play our top 2 centres like 38 mins a night combined. Are we happy paying Naz $4.5 a year as a 3rd line centre playing 14-15 mins a night? Especially when we do not draw many penalties and he hasn't been producing as much on the PP as well. As great a 3C as Naz is, if we reduce his minutes, becomes harder to keep him at his cap hit.
100% no questions asked. When you have 2 talents like Tavares and Matthews, you're gonna have to take the minutes out of somebody's pocket if you're interested in maximizing the team's potential and winning the most games. I've always loved Kadri but if that's how it goes down, so be it. In fact, with our weakness at LW, it wouldn't be a bad idea at all to try Kadri on LW to compensate for his missed ice-time. If we had an adequate 3rd line center to fill in I'd be pushing for it but Lindholm/Gauthier are garbage players.
The other teams with a pair of elite #1C's typically deploy them in the 19:00 - 19:30 range of ice-time.
I'm seeing Tampa brought up a lot here and I'd like to clarify that as well. Look at how far up in the standings they are, they're not like us who are fighting for a divisional spot and are 2 points out of a wildcard. They can afford to play their star players less. If those of you referencing them would actually take the time to look at their TOI deployment last year - when they were in a legit race for 1st spot - you would notice that they played Kucherov / Stamkos more, especially down the last stretch of the season.
The Leafs need to be in the business of winning games right now and creating separation from Boston to secure home ice. And for that to happen, we need to bump up our star's ice-time.
He's doing a lot of things usage and role-wise that seem suboptimal to say the least.
The only thing is there may be deadline plans and they're playing certain guys up or down because of that, but if it continues onward and into the playoffs, the shitstorm is going to be intense if we don't play well.
For now let's see what happens at the deadline.
The only thing is there may be deadline plans and they're playing certain guys up or down because of that, but if it continues onward and into the playoffs, the shitstorm is going to be intense if we don't play well.
For now let's see what happens at the deadline.
Bluelines
Python FTW!
- Nov 17, 2013
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Bluelines
Python FTW!
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there is a reason why Tavares has a minute more in ice time, hint it has to do with what he does without the puck... c'mon Zeke you can do it..... you can figure out why....
And then you take ice time from someone else and the cycle continues.Could always throw Kadri out on the wing with them once and awhile to up his ice time
LOL.
Well if he was on the third line where he belongs...hard for Kadri to take his spot for a shift.
ShaneFalco
Registered User
If you look at the playoff summary on the Hotstove from last year, how much has changed? These are the negatives mind you.....
ECQF Game #7 Review: Boston Bruins 7 vs. Toronto Maple Leafs 4 | Maple Leafs Hotstove
Let’s start here: It doesn’t take a genius to point out that the Leafs defense could not transition the puck well enough against the Bruins forecheck, and that the team over-relied on the stretch pass, flip out, or high-of-the-glass play to get out of its own end. Jake Gardiner was perhaps the perfect microcosm of the stretch-pass reliance, living and dying by it in this series and in this Game 7, in particular. The flip out/high off the glass play became the go-to for Ron Hainsey and Nikita Zaitsev at the first sign of trouble. There is a personnel element and a systems element at play here. Both of the latter are slotted too high on the current depth chart and were tasked with too many minutes this season and playoff.
At the other end, the Leafs’ dump-ins were giveaways too frequently – too often, the Bruins would retrieve, go D-to-D, and off they went, tilting the ice back in their favour. You can rue the bad luck of hitting the ref in the skate off a clean faceoff win prior to the tying 4-4 goal, or the bounce off the end boards for the Patrice Bergeron goal, but at the end of the day, all you can do is set yourself up with the best possible odds and try to make your own breaks. The Leafs did not do that in this series due to their failure to tilt the ice enough in their favour.
7. The Leafs’ control over play in score close situations was second worst to only Minnesota among playoff teams – they were at 44.7% Corsi For percentage, a 42.6% Shots For percentage, and a 47% Scoring Chances For percentage when the score was within one over the seven-game series. If you organize playoff teams by score-close CF%, the bottom eight are now eliminated and the top eight are moving on to Round 2.
8. The offensive zone time issue – also known as the lack of cycle game, or one-and-done offense problem — is one the Leafs are going to have sort out this summer. It’s not a question of talent; it’s a roster makeup and systems issue. There is the issue of needing to be heavier and also the issue of puck support; it was evident how far apart the Leafs played at times compared to the way the Bruins support on the forecheck and cycle. The Leafs had similar problems after the 2013 loss to Boston and went about their off-season fixes totally wrong. The Leafs will need to address the issue without being too reactionary about it through recklessly shedding skill and speed for brawn.
9. In the defensive zone without the puck, the Leafs remain a serious work in progress. The Bruins outshot the Leafs 245-197 in this series; of that total, the Bruins defensemen outshot the Leafs’ defensemen 77-53 (the Bruins defense generated 45% more shots than the Leafs’ did). The Leafs failure to break the Bruins cycle, cover off the points, and — particularly early in the series — their struggles to box out effectively in front of their net put them behind the eight ball in this series from the very beginning. When the goaltending slipped in Games 1, 2, 4 and then 7, the Leafs couldn’t keep it out of their net. With their leakiness defensively, we knew the Leafs would need excellent goaltending and they got average to below-average netminding, looking back at the series as a whole.
10. There will be much more to sort through in the days and weeks to come as far as the individual and team performances in this series, what it means for the offseason, and much more. For now, I’ll leave you with this Babcock quote from the end of the regular season:
ECQF Game #7 Review: Boston Bruins 7 vs. Toronto Maple Leafs 4 | Maple Leafs Hotstove
Let’s start here: It doesn’t take a genius to point out that the Leafs defense could not transition the puck well enough against the Bruins forecheck, and that the team over-relied on the stretch pass, flip out, or high-of-the-glass play to get out of its own end. Jake Gardiner was perhaps the perfect microcosm of the stretch-pass reliance, living and dying by it in this series and in this Game 7, in particular. The flip out/high off the glass play became the go-to for Ron Hainsey and Nikita Zaitsev at the first sign of trouble. There is a personnel element and a systems element at play here. Both of the latter are slotted too high on the current depth chart and were tasked with too many minutes this season and playoff.
At the other end, the Leafs’ dump-ins were giveaways too frequently – too often, the Bruins would retrieve, go D-to-D, and off they went, tilting the ice back in their favour. You can rue the bad luck of hitting the ref in the skate off a clean faceoff win prior to the tying 4-4 goal, or the bounce off the end boards for the Patrice Bergeron goal, but at the end of the day, all you can do is set yourself up with the best possible odds and try to make your own breaks. The Leafs did not do that in this series due to their failure to tilt the ice enough in their favour.
7. The Leafs’ control over play in score close situations was second worst to only Minnesota among playoff teams – they were at 44.7% Corsi For percentage, a 42.6% Shots For percentage, and a 47% Scoring Chances For percentage when the score was within one over the seven-game series. If you organize playoff teams by score-close CF%, the bottom eight are now eliminated and the top eight are moving on to Round 2.
8. The offensive zone time issue – also known as the lack of cycle game, or one-and-done offense problem — is one the Leafs are going to have sort out this summer. It’s not a question of talent; it’s a roster makeup and systems issue. There is the issue of needing to be heavier and also the issue of puck support; it was evident how far apart the Leafs played at times compared to the way the Bruins support on the forecheck and cycle. The Leafs had similar problems after the 2013 loss to Boston and went about their off-season fixes totally wrong. The Leafs will need to address the issue without being too reactionary about it through recklessly shedding skill and speed for brawn.
9. In the defensive zone without the puck, the Leafs remain a serious work in progress. The Bruins outshot the Leafs 245-197 in this series; of that total, the Bruins defensemen outshot the Leafs’ defensemen 77-53 (the Bruins defense generated 45% more shots than the Leafs’ did). The Leafs failure to break the Bruins cycle, cover off the points, and — particularly early in the series — their struggles to box out effectively in front of their net put them behind the eight ball in this series from the very beginning. When the goaltending slipped in Games 1, 2, 4 and then 7, the Leafs couldn’t keep it out of their net. With their leakiness defensively, we knew the Leafs would need excellent goaltending and they got average to below-average netminding, looking back at the series as a whole.
10. There will be much more to sort through in the days and weeks to come as far as the individual and team performances in this series, what it means for the offseason, and much more. For now, I’ll leave you with this Babcock quote from the end of the regular season:
“Pain… normally what happens with a young team is, you get into the playoffs, and then you start thinking you might be one of the favourites… You end up having some playoff failures and everyone is telling you how bad you are, and then you fight through that and find a way.
This winning the ultimate prize is not an easy thing. As much as we are now a team in the league that looks like a good hockey club, you’ve got to do it year after year after year, and you’ve got to be a team that can win at playoff time. Lots of times, the teams that win in the regular season aren’t the teams that win at playoff time. There is only one team that gets to win. It’s a grind. I’m prepared for that totally. It’s not going to be easy.”
This winning the ultimate prize is not an easy thing. As much as we are now a team in the league that looks like a good hockey club, you’ve got to do it year after year after year, and you’ve got to be a team that can win at playoff time. Lots of times, the teams that win in the regular season aren’t the teams that win at playoff time. There is only one team that gets to win. It’s a grind. I’m prepared for that totally. It’s not going to be easy.”
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