How Canada won 1987 Canada Cup.

[YMB29]

However, it all balanced out

Sure it did.

And that video is a repost from here.

0:40 - The call was a crosscheck to the back of the Canada player in front of the net, that is a penalty. It wasn't the slight hook (and subsiquent dive) against Gretzky.

I know, but that weak crosscheck or whatever is nothing compared to what the Canadians were doing. I put that in also because it showed that Gretzky was very willing to dive. Furthermore, the dive probably helped draw the whistle; if you look closely, Koharski raises his arm after Gretzky falls.

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

...Furthermore, the dive probably helped draw the whistle; if you look closely, Koharski raises his arm after Gretzky falls.

I have seen very few penalty calls the result in a player falling, called before said player falls. It's call reaction time.

 

[God Bless Canada]

Why did the Soviets lose in 87? When you blow a 3-0 lead in a championship game, you have nobody to blame but yourself. If you go out, looking for excuses, when you blow a 3-0 lead in a championship game, then you're a joke.

I have zero respect for those who can't accept their own failures.

 

[YMB29]

It easy to blow leads like that when the other team can do whatever it wants and the team leading gets called for everything. Stop avoiding the real issue here.

I have seen very few penalty calls the result in a player falling, called before said player falls. It's call reaction time.

No Koharski raises his arm when he sees Gretzky falling, not right after the crosscheck.

 

[pappyline]

It easy to blow leads like that when the other team can do whatever it wants and the team leading gets called for everything. Stop avoiding the real issue here.



No Koharski raises his arm when he sees Gretzky falling, not right after the crosscheck.

Get over it. It happened 20 years ago. Canada won, The Soviets lost. That is what happened. Stop making excuses. Lets move on.

 

[Dogbert*]

Pretty ugly. There aint one hockeyfan anywhere that liked officiating in that game.

Bettman.

 

[12# Peter Bondra]

Bettman.

How the heck can Bettman be mentioned in a thread about the 1987 Canada Cup?

 

[Macman]

Very few have actually seen the game, not strange, I doubt anyone can watch it today without shaking their heads. Hardly something you rerun...

Yeah, who would want to replay the three greatest games ever played?

Unless you're older, very few have actually seen the game, and that's the problem. Selective clips don't tell the story, especially if you choose not to show the uncalled hook on Bourque that led directly to a Soviet goal. By any objective standard, that was EASILY the worst non-call of the game, but Canada-haters conveniently neglect to mention it, or never saw it because they've never actually watched the game, or have their anti-Canada blinders firmly in place.

But I guess you can't blame them. If I'd just been reminded again of the fallacy of the Soviet myth of hockey supremacy, and lived in a country where bribes are an everyday part of life, I'd probably blame conspiracies too. Afterall, it's much easier than the simple truth that maybe, just maybe, the better team won.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

How the heck can Bettman be mentioned in a thread about the 1987 Canada Cup?

It's really a thread about hockey conspiracies, and all hockey conspiracies involve Bettman.

But the answer to the titular question is, Moxy.

 

[YMB29]

Unless you're older, very few have actually seen the game, and that's the problem. Selective clips don't tell the story, especially if you choose not to show the uncalled hook on Bourque that led directly to a Soviet goal. By any objective standard, that was EASILY the worst non-call of the game, but Canada-haters conveniently neglect to mention it, or never saw it because they've never actually watched the game, or have their anti-Canada blinders firmly in place.

Well obviously you got pro Canadian blinders on. That hook on Bourque was not much of a hook. Makarov only touched the tip of his shirt; even the Canadian commentators said that he just fell, which is unusual for them. Whether it was a hook or not, Koharski did not call it because of the number of calls (and non-calls) he made in favor of Canada during the previous minutes. While Canada was on a powerplay 30 seconds earlier, Messier hooked down Kasatonov when he tried to clear the puck; as a result, Canada hit the post on the play. So no it was not the worst non-call of the game nor does it make everything "balance out".

But I guess you can't blame them. If I'd just been reminded again of the fallacy of the Soviet myth of hockey supremacy, and lived in a country where bribes are an everyday part of life, I'd probably blame conspiracies too. Afterall, it's much easier than the simple truth that maybe, just maybe, the better team won.

Tell yourself that. The real myth is the Canadian supremacy. A superior team does not rely on playing at home, with their own officials, to win tournaments, like Canada did.
As for your off topic insult towards Russia, it just shows that you are frustrated and don't want to accept the truth.

 

[Macman]

A superior team does not rely on playing at home, with their own officials, to win tournaments, like Canada did. As for your off topic insult towards Russia, it just shows that you are frustrated and don't want to accept the truth.

Here's the truth. The Soviets built its supremacy myth on the fact it was allowed to being its best to every tournament while Canada was banned from doing so by the IOC and IIHF. And you've got the gall to complain that Canada had to hold its own tournament to circumvent a blatantly discriminatory policy? What is it about that that Russian fans don't, or are unwilling, to understand?

A superior team doesn't go the worlds and Olympics every time with their absolute best players, kick the crap out of rank amateurs, then whine and pout for 20 years because they finally had to play a credible opponent.

There has never been a game of hockey devoid of missed calls on both sides. Darius Kaspairitus said it best after a Russian loss at the World Cup. "We always blame the referees." He's gotten over it. You should too.

I'm never frustrated by Canadian wins. I am frustrated, though, by the constant whining of Russian hockey fans after a loss and the rare acknowledgement by them that Canada actually produces decent players.

As for my bribery reference, how many times on these boards have Russian fans accused Canada of buying the referees? That makes it very much on-topic.

 

[Injektilo]

don't wear yourselves out guys, we're just gonna go through this all again in a few months when the 20th anniversary rolls around.

 

[YMB29]

Here's the truth. The Soviets built its supremacy myth on the fact it was allowed to being its best to every tournament while Canada was banned from doing so by the IOC and IIHF.

What are you talking about? Banned from the World Championships?

And you've got the gall to complain that Canada had to hold its own tournament to circumvent a blatantly discriminatory policy? What is it about that that Russian fans don't, or are unwilling, to understand?

So you are saying that they responded with discriminatory policy of their own?

A superior team doesn't go the worlds and Olympics every time with their absolute best players, kick the crap out of rank amateurs, then whine and pout for 20 years because they finally had to play a credible opponent.

Amateurs at the worlds?
The Soviets kicked the crap out of more than just amateurs most of the time. Canada might have been a credible opponent but their win in 87 was not credible, and this is obvious to anyone but Canadian fans, like you, who refuse to accept it.

There has never been a game of hockey devoid of missed calls on both sides. Darius Kaspairitus said it best after a Russian loss at the World Cup. "We always blame the referees." He's gotten over it. You should too.

Was it at the World Cup? Was not it at the Olympics in 2002. He was talking about that game and those Olympics.

I'm never frustrated by Canadian wins. I am frustrated, though, by the constant whining of Russian hockey fans after a loss and the rare acknowledgement by them that Canada actually produces decent players.

It is not about producing decent players or not.

As for my bribery reference, how many times on these boards have Russian fans accused Canada of buying the referees? That makes it very much on-topic.

There is a difference between bribing in hockey and bribing in politics or in anything else.
And did Canada really have to bride Koharski, a Canadian, for that game?

 

[Macman]

What are you talking about? Banned from the World Championships?

Do you not know that Canada and the U.S. was barred by the IOC and IIHF from bringing NHLers and even AHLers to the world championships and Olympics for decades while everyone else was allowed to bring their absolute best? That explains everything. Canada actually stopped bringing teams to the worlds in the '70s to finally force the issue with the IIHF.

Imagine this scenario: how many world and Olympic championships do you think the Soviets would have won in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s if Canada had been allowed to bring its best players possible while the Soviets were barred by the IIHF and IOC from bringing anyone in its top two elite leagues? Not a nice thought, is it?

So you are saying that they responded with discriminatory policy of their own?

How is creating the world's first best-on-best tournament discriminatory?

Amateurs at the worlds?
The Soviets kicked the crap out of more than just amateurs most of the time.

Really? Canada wasn't permitted by the IIHF to bring pros to the worlds until 1977. Before that we had to bring teams like the Barrie Flyers and Trail Smokeaters.

 

[shawnmullin]

Really? Canada wasn't permitted by the IIHF to bring pros to the worlds until 1977. Before that we had to bring teams like the Barrie Flyers and Trail Smokeaters.

And still won, baby!

 

[Zine]

Do you not know that Canada and the U.S. was barred by the IOC and IIHF from bringing NHLers and even AHLers to the world championships and Olympics for decades while everyone else was allowed to bring their absolute best? That explains everything. Canada actually stopped bringing teams to the worlds in the '70s to finally force the issue with the IIHF.

Imagine this scenario: how many world and Olympic championships do you think the Soviets would have won in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s if Canada had been allowed to bring its best players possible while the Soviets were barred by the IIHF and IOC from bringing anyone in its top two elite leagues? Not a nice thought, is it?

Fact is, since the late 1970's Canada WAS allowed to bring their best. That they didn’t is nobody’s fault but their own. Other leagues scheduled their play-offs around the WC, why couldn't the NHL?


Either way, following the Summit Series (when Canada realized their supremacy of the sport was over) it’s not surprising that every best v best tourney they played in had to be on home ice with home refs…….8 straight (76,81,84,87,91,98,challenge cup, rendezvous’87).

It should also come as no surprise that when not given these advantages, Canada has only been able to win 1 medal in the last 3 olympics…….which is a truly neutral tournament.

 

[Macman]

Fact is, since the late 1970's Canada WAS allowed to bring their best. That they didn’t is nobody’s fault but their own. Other leagues scheduled their play-offs around the WC, why couldn't the NHL?

Europeans leagues have always scheduled their games around the worlds. Do you really expect the NHL to change the way it's done things for decades so its players can go play in a tournament it doesn't care about and probably would love to see end because of the risk of injury. I'd love to see it happen, but you know it's never going to. I'm not complaining about what's happened since 1977. My point is the IIHF and IOC had blatantly discriminatory policies toward Canada for decades and the Soviets enjoyed an overwhelming advantage because if it.

How successful has Russia been since that advantage ended? Nuff said.

Either way, following the Summit Series (when Canada realized their supremacy of the sport was over) it’s not surprising that every best v best tourney they played in had to be on home ice with home refs…….8 straight (76,81,84,87,91,98,challenge cup, rendezvous’87).

Were there other best-on-best tournaments I'm not aware of? And what's preventing other countries from holding one? I find it amazing that some people condemn Canada for finally bringing best-on-best play to hockey instead of celebrating that fact.

It should also come as no surprise that when not given these advantages, Canada has only been able to win 1 medal in the last 3 olympics…….which is a truly neutral tournament.

I'm no mathematician, but I think Canada has won exactly one third of those tournaments, which no matter how you slice it is one third better than Russia, Finland, Slovakia, the U.S., Germany, etc.

 

[Zine]

Europeans leagues have always scheduled their games around the worlds. Do you really expect the NHL to change the way it's done things for decades so its players can go play in a tournament it doesn't care about and probably would love to see end because of the risk of injury. I'd love to see it happen, but you know it's never going to. I'm not complaining about what's happened since 1977. My point is the IIHF and IOC had blatantly discriminatory policies toward Canada for decades and the Soviets enjoyed an overwhelming advantage because if it..

How were the Soviets advantaged? Regardless of discriminatory policies, like you said, the NHL wasn't going to release its players anyways. It would have made no difference.

Were there other best-on-best tournaments I'm not aware of? And what's preventing other countries from holding one? I find it amazing that some people condemn Canada for finally bringing best-on-best play to hockey instead of celebrating that fact..

.....ummm, the World Championships post '77?
The VAST MAJORITY of countries HAD their best at the worlds. The fact that Canada didn't is nobody's fault but their own.
People like to complain about the Soviet or Czech advantages at the WC, but it's Canada's and the NHL's fault you didn't send your best. Canada didn't step up to the plate given the opportunity..........unlike every other country during the Canada Cups. Don't blame the Soviets.

I'm no mathematician, but I think Canada has won exactly one third of those tournaments, which no matter how you slice it is one third better than Russia, Finland, Slovakia, the U.S., Germany, etc.

In the olympic medal count they're behind Russia, Finland and the Czech Republic.

 

[shawnmullin]

.....ummm, the World Championships post '77?
The VAST MAJORITY of countries HAD their best at the worlds. The fact that Canada didn't is nobody's fault but their own.
People like to complain about the Soviet or Czech advantages at the WC, but it's Canada's and the NHL's fault you didn't send your best. Canada didn't step up to the plate given the opportunity..........unlike every other country during the Canada Cups. Don't blame the Soviets.

I've never understood this argument. Why on earth is it Canada's fault that the IIHF schedules the World Championship during the NHL playoffs? Can you think of a more absurd thing to do if you want full participation?

Why not late June or August?

 

[YMB29]

Do you not know that Canada and the U.S. was barred by the IOC and IIHF from bringing NHLers and even AHLers to the world championships and Olympics for decades while everyone else was allowed to bring their absolute best? That explains everything. Canada actually stopped bringing teams to the worlds in the '70s to finally force the issue with the IIHF.

Imagine this scenario: how many world and Olympic championships do you think the Soviets would have won in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s if Canada had been allowed to bring its best players possible while the Soviets were barred by the IIHF and IOC from bringing anyone in its top two elite leagues? Not a nice thought, is it?

In the 50s and probably most of the 60s, Soviet hockey was developing and probably not at the professional level of the NHL. The Soviets started playing international hockey only in the 50s you know.
You would have a point if they did not continue on winning after all professionals were allowed to play or if Soviet teams did not do well against NHL competition.

How is creating the world's first best-on-best tournament discriminatory?

Stop with this best on best crap. The Soviets had their best in three of the Canada Cup tournaments, so at least two were not "best on best" and don't count by your logic.
If you want to make a fair tournament, you don't make it so it is always played on your home ice and with your referees officiating all important games.

Really? Canada wasn't permitted by the IIHF to bring pros to the worlds until 1977. Before that we had to bring teams like the Barrie Flyers and Trail Smokeaters.

And Soviet dominance only increased since 1977.

Were there other best-on-best tournaments I'm not aware of? And what's preventing other countries from holding one? I find it amazing that some people condemn Canada for finally bringing best-on-best play to hockey instead of celebrating that fact.

Maybe if it was not so biased more people outside of Canada would have had greater appreciation for it.

I'm no mathematician, but I think Canada has won exactly one third of those tournaments, which no matter how you slice it is one third better than Russia, Finland, Slovakia, the U.S., Germany, etc.

And that win was in North America. Kind of an odd coincidence.

 

[FissionFire]

You were trying to make a decent point so I thought you'd say - how Canada got hosed their whole time there with the refs etc.

I've watched plenty of footage from the Summit Series, and the officiating was pathetic on both ends. Canadian homerism in Canada, and Soviet homerism in Russia. To me, the officials cancel out. The real turning point in the series what the brutal slash that effectively took Kharlamov out of the series. He was the best Soviet player game by game even if he didn't have the numbers to show it. Even when he came back he didn't have the speed or quickness from before. He was hurt really badly, and I don't see how anyone can defend what was done by Canada in an attempt to win.

Had he broken Kharlamov's ankle badly enough to prevent him ever playing hockey again, would you still defend it? Or would you clamor for a Bertuzzi-like punishment and condemn the player and Team Canada for such cheap and classless tactics? Or would you wrap yourself around the flag of Canadian pride and feel that "whatever it takes to win" is justification enough?

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

Had he broken Kharlamov's ankle badly enough to prevent him ever playing hockey again, would you still defend it? Or would you clamor for a Bertuzzi-like punishment and condemn the player and Team Canada for such cheap and classless tactics? Or would you wrap yourself around the flag of Canadian pride and feel that "whatever it takes to win" is justification enough?

As far as I can tell, most Canadians now think Clarke was an ass for what he did. At the time emotions were running high with the big us vs them mentality and it was cheered, but as far as I can tell, that sentiment has changed significantly.

 

[Zine]

As far as I can tell, most Canadians now think Clarke was an ass for what he did. At the time emotions were running high with the big us vs them mentality and it was cheered, but as far as I can tell, that sentiment has changed significantly.

Exactly.

In retrospect those cold war-era games were ridiculously biased from a refing standpoint…….Canada Cups for Canada/any tourney played in the eastern block for the Soviets. It was just the norm back then.

I won’t say it ‘tainted’ the victories (for both sides), but any objective fan should be able to understand those for what they were........and it seems like most intelligent hockey fans can.

Either way they should be remembered and celebrated for the skill put on display in those old tourneys. Some great hockey.

 

[Rob]

And that win was in North America. Kind of an odd coincidence.

The 2002 Salt Lake City Olympics were played on international ice surface.