How can teams prevent situations like Marner & Laine?

Discussion in 'National Hockey League Talk' started by steveayres35, Sep 10, 2019.

  1. Eat The Rich

    Eat The Rich Registered User

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    San Jose didn't need Erik Karlsson either but here we are.

    This is irrelevant. If you have a chance to add elite talent you do so.
     
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  2. Aladyyn

    Aladyyn counting stats are the devil

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    Do they need Marner?
     
  3. Eat The Rich

    Eat The Rich Registered User

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    I wouldn't go to that extreme, but it's clear that something will have to change fundamentally. Young players are starting to want experienced player money, and are we to expect experienced players to suddenly be happy with a paycut to facilitate the young stars? Hell no. This is just the beginning stages of a larger problem with the Salary Cap structure. It was put into place when it was normal for young guys to take smaller 2nd contracts and cash in during UFA prime years.
     
  4. Berserk

    Berserk Registered User

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    And when you build teams like that you get yourself into the same situation the leafs are in. Even after they sign marner their defense will still be suspect. They didn't need Tavares. They needed money to sign Marner and to improve their defense.
     
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  5. viper0220

    viper0220 Registered User

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    OP, this is the answer to your question. There are several stupid answers in this thread.

    The days of overpaying old washed up UFA's going for their retirement contract are gone(as a Flames fan, I can relate to this because our current GM has done this), now you have to pay for your top RFA's because that where the money, the young players are better than ever, so you have to pay them, they are the one that are going to help you win, not Lucic, Eriksson, Ladd, etc.
     
  6. viper0220

    viper0220 Registered User

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    Underrated comment.
     
  7. viper0220

    viper0220 Registered User

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    So you think the Flames should let Matthew Tkachuk walk? These players spend their whole live making it to this stage, so if a idiot GM cannot mange their cap properly, why should these players get the short end of it.
     
  8. Bandit

    Bandit HFBoards Sponsor Sponsor

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    Which is fine, but then you don't also complain that you can't sign some other guy because you paid the elite talent. Make the choice, live with the consequence.
     
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  9. viper0220

    viper0220 Registered User

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    No, they need defense.
     
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  10. Eat The Rich

    Eat The Rich Registered User

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    When the other guy had no justification for trying to become the highest paid player on the team the story changes significantly.
     
  11. viper0220

    viper0220 Registered User

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    It depends on you teams needs. If you have a lot of "good players" at that position and than you sign that elite player. Now if you have several elite players and a elite talent comes available, than you sign that elite talent but you trade "good" players to fix your needs because you have that elite talent. In a cap world, this is not easy to do.
     
  12. mjlee

    mjlee Registered User

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    You can do like some teams (Detroit) and have an informal internal cap. That is, no one got paid more than Lidstrom, that was the rule and everyone went along with it.
     
  13. ToDavid

    ToDavid Registered User

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    Why are Marner and Laine singled out here? There are 17 RFAs unsigned heading into training camp tomorrow, 10 of which are very high profile players.
     
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  14. greasysnapper

    greasysnapper Registered User

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    I don't think that's good for teams or the fans. It's a very NBA inspired idea. And it's one of the reasons why I think the NBA is so ridiculous despite being a really fun game to play and watch. 10-20 superstars basically control the entire league.
     
  15. Martin Skoula

    Martin Skoula Registered User

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    Not being able to pay the guy has nothing to do with us paying for other elite talent. The 10.5 set aside is more than reasonable and would be enough to sign a player with identical stats and reasonable representation.
     
  16. Bandit

    Bandit HFBoards Sponsor Sponsor

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    According to you maybe. Clearly not according to those involved, or it would be done
     
  17. Sanchise90

    Sanchise90 Registered User

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    What? This logic is terrible. Just like players have a window of maximizing earnings, teams have a window of contention. You cannot give up a year of contention by having one of your best players sitting out the entire season.

    Just using the Leafs as an example, if the Leafs let Marner sit an entire year, ok then what? Now you're worse on the ice, you've wasted a year of Tavares and the year after, not only do you have to figure out what to do with Marner, you have 3 defensemen to re-sign or find suitable replacements for. The impetus to make a deal falls on both sides.

    These GMs have a lot on the line too and can't afford to lose a year of contention because they could not re-sign one of their star players.
     
  18. Martin Skoula

    Martin Skoula Registered User

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    According to literally every comparable that exists for a playmaking winger like Marner.

    Asking to be the highest or 2nd highest paid winger in NHL history because you had one season over PPG is not reasonable.
     
  19. Sanchise90

    Sanchise90 Registered User

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    While I agree with the idea of a contract structure similar to the NBA, there is no way small market teams would go for this. You think a team like Columbus after watching all their UFAs leave would sign up for a system where they have less control prior to UFA than now?
     
  20. greasysnapper

    greasysnapper Registered User

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    :nod:

    Which is why I said in reply to that idea that, "I don't think that's good for teams"
     
  21. Brownies

    Brownies Registered User

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    I don't agree. In my opinion, John Tavares was a free asset so even if eventually they have to trade Marner or others to save money and increase their depth, the net result will look something like :

    Leafs + Marner < Leafs + Tavares - Marner + player(s) received from Marner trade

    Other scenarios are possible, obviously, but this is an exemple. Some might say that eventually, the decision to bring in Tavares will eventually leads to bad/difficult decisions to make and eventually bring the overall roster down, but I don't see it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
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  22. Brownies

    Brownies Registered User

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    I'll also add that I think that people are mistaking the Leafs position as a bad position, whether it should be seen as a difficult decision. Difficult because some tough decisions and negociations need to be made. My Habs don't have tough decisions to make right now because none of the good UFA were willing to sign here and we had a few terrible years of drafting.... Yeah ?
     
  23. Berserk

    Berserk Registered User

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    It's already lead to difficult decisions. At the expense of their defense they chose to add an extraneous offensive player that lead them to the same seed and end playoff result that they had without him. The difference here is that if you trade Marner and keep Tavares, you're trading a guy who hasn't entered his prime and keeping a guy who will be out of his while Marner is squarely in his. It's not a good trade off.
     
  24. Stubu

    Stubu "Give War A Chance"

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    It's plausible. But the Tavares signing kind of out of the blue sort of threw a brand new spanner in their long-term budget planning. You mean extensions before that happened?
     
  25. HSF

    HSF Registered User

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    You have to look at cap percentage not cap hit
     

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