How can Matthews put himself in the convo with McDavid as “Best young player”?

[Michel Beauchamp]

Implying that Leafs fans believe otherwise is stupid, but anything to make us all look bad.

That's not what he wrote, is it ?

Please show me the errors of my way !

 

[LeafFever]

Do non-Leaf fans realize the vast, vast majority of Leaf fans believe McDavid is far better than Matthews will ever be?
I bet most people would assume I believe Matthews is better than McDavid, despite my constant posts naming McDavid the best in the world.
You guys need to stop taking one person's opinion and using it as the consensus.

 

[b in vancouver]

Matthews hasn't really separated himself yet from some of the other excellent young forwards in the league like Eichel, Laine, Pastrnak, Draisatl, Marner, etc. He might be the best of that second tier but there's a lot less distance between him and those guys than him and McDavid.

This upcoming season should give us all a bit more of a feel to how these young players could/should be listed.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Matthews will need to score as many points as McDavid does assists in any season before we can even have this discussion.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Every single Leafs fan knows that McDavid is better. Stop making **** up.

Same as above. We all know that McDavid is better. Implying that Leafs fans believe otherwise is stupid, but anything to make us all look bad. All good.

"All" is definitely not true, hell there was like a 100 page thread at the beginning of the season with so many Leaf fans arguing he was better. Even in this thread (and others) there's still quite a few posters saying Matthews would score just as much with more ice time.

 

[Skolman]

"All" is definitely not true, hell there was like a 100 page thread at the beginning of the season with so many Leaf fans arguing he was better. Even in this thread (and others) there's still quite a few posters saying Matthews would score just as much with more ice time.

This.

@zeke and many others said this recently.

 

[zeke]

"All" is definitely not true, hell there was like a 100 page thread at the beginning of the season with so many Leaf fans arguing he was better. Even in this thread (and others) there's still quite a few posters saying Matthews would score just as much with more ice time.

nobody actually said that, though.

 

[AustonsNostrils]

Needs a scoring championship first, McDavid already has 2. Needs to win Hart/Lindsay.

And it's now going to be harder I think for Matthews, there are too many stars on the Leafs, he has to share the limelight now with Tavares and Marner and to a lesser degree Nylander. Those who vote on trophies subconsciously will do some vote splitting/reducing with the Leafs stars.

And most importantly, he just doesn't have McDavid's transcendent talent. It's possible he becomes the 2nd best forward in the game but there are many in the same class and I think those players will jockey rankings season by season - the MacKinnons, Eichels, Scheifeles, Laines, Marners, Barzals etc etc. I don't think Matthews will become the clear cut pretender to McDavid's throne.

 

[zeke]

but hey, for fun:

1st 2yrs:

McDavid: ES 2.90p/60, 2.30p1/60, 11.2oish% ---- PP 6.39p/60, 3.51p1/60, 9.8oish%
Matthews: ES 2.59p/60, 2.34p1/60, 10.5oish% --- PP 6.29p/60, 4.49p1/60, 9.2oish%


now maybe you guys are right that Matthews' per minute production would drop off a cliff with more minutes, but.....

....what if it didn't?

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

"All" is definitely not true, hell there was like a 100 page thread at the beginning of the season with so many Leaf fans arguing he was better. Even in this thread (and others) there's still quite a few posters saying Matthews would score just as much with more ice time.

It’s fair to point out that Matthews being on a team that likes to roll lines and not overload players (apart from the PK) does reduce his totals.

That doesn’t mean that most Leaf fans don’t readily acknowledge that McDavid is the better player.

 

[LeafFever]

but hey, for fun:

1st 2yrs:

McDavid: ES 2.90p/60, 2.30p1/60, 11.2oish% ---- PP 6.39p/60, 3.51p1/60, 9.8oish%
Matthews: ES 2.59p/60, 2.34p1/60, 10.5oish% --- PP 6.29p/60, 4.49p1/60, 9.2oish%


now maybe you guys are right that Matthews' per minute production would drop off a cliff with more minutes, but.....

....what if it didn't?

Matthews has such bad usage.

 

[Alf the dwarf]

Laine>McDavid

 

[MoreMogilny]

"All" is definitely not true, hell there was like a 100 page thread at the beginning of the season with so many Leaf fans arguing he was better. Even in this thread (and others) there's still quite a few posters saying Matthews would score just as much with more ice time.

“So many”

Let’s see the proof.

I don’t speak for every Leaf fan, but I’m on these boards constantly and the vast vast majority of Leaf fans are well aware that McDavid is better.

Sounds like people see a post from one extreme fan and apply it to the entire fan base.

 

[Trilliann]

Do non-Leaf fans realize the vast, vast majority of Leaf fans believe McDavid is far better than Matthews will ever be?
I bet most people would assume I believe Matthews is better than McDavid, despite my constant posts naming McDavid the best in the world.
You guys need to stop taking one person's opinion and using it as the consensus.

"Matthews is better than McDavid this season. No argument there." -LeafFever-
What Do Other People Think of Auston Matthews?

 

[Master P]

“So many”

Let’s see the proof.

I don’t speak for every Leaf fan, but I’m on these boards constantly and the vast vast majority of Leaf fans are well aware that McDavid is better.

Sounds like people see a post from one extreme fan and apply it to the entire fan base.

Well here is a link to that 200+ page thread about McDavid vs Matthews if you really feel like reading through it all. ( I don't recommend it).

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/mcdavid-or-matthews.2397933/

 

[bionic]

Jeesh, everyone knows McDavid is better. The question us leaf fans were asking was just how much better.
It's like everyone knows The Leafs are better then the Oilers the only question is how much better.

Sigh.....can't wait for the season to start.

 

[biotk]

"Matthews is better than McDavid this season. No argument there." -LeafFever-
What Do Other People Think of Auston Matthews?

The poster you are responding to was completely correct. Matthews had been better than McDavid at that point in the season. There was really no debate about that. As I said in the post a couple above the one you quoted:

"Matthews has been better than McDavid this year so far. That doesn't mean that I think that Matthews is better than McDavid, nor does it mean that I think Matthews will be better than McDavid for the rest of the season, but Matthews has been better than McDavid so far this season."

 

[Trilliann]

The poster you are responding to was completely correct. Matthews had been better than McDavid at that point in the season. There was really no debate about that. As I said in the post a couple above the one you quoted:

"Matthews has been better than McDavid this year so far. That doesn't mean that I think that Matthews is better than McDavid, nor does it mean that I think Matthews will be better than McDavid for the rest of the season, but Matthews has been better than McDavid so far this season."

That's not the post I quoted, that's not what the post said and that wasn't the point.

 

[zeke]

but hey, for fun:

1st 2yrs:

McDavid: ES 2.90p/60, 2.30p1/60, 11.2oish% ---- PP 6.39p/60, 3.51p1/60, 9.8oish%
Matthews: ES 2.59p/60, 2.34p1/60, 10.5oish% --- PP 6.29p/60, 4.49p1/60, 9.2oish%


now maybe you guys are right that Matthews' per minute production would drop off a cliff with more minutes, but.....

....what if it didn't?

ok I'll answer the "what if it didn't?" question myself:

1st 2yrs:

McDavid: 127gms, ES 2099:23, 16:32mpg, 39gls, 105pts / PP 382:15, 3:01mpg, 6gls, 41pppts / PK 100:58, 0:48mpg,1gls, 2pkpts
Matthews: 144gms, ES 2232:09, 15:30mpg, 61gls, 98pts / PP 334:32, 2:19mpg, 13gls 34pts / PK 3:01, 0:01mpg, 0gls, 0pts

Adjusted to 82gms with McDavid's minutes:

McDavid: ES 25gls, 68pts / PP 4gls, 27pts / PK 1gls, 1pts ---- TOT: 30gls, 96pts
Matthews: ES 37gls, 60pts / PP 10gls, 25pts / PK 0gls, 0pts - TOT: 47gls, 85pts

would that have him in the convo with McDavid? wouldn't be far off.

or 2nd year only:

McDavid: 82gms, ES 17:17, 26gls, 71pts / PP 3:02, 3gls, 27pts / PK 0:48, 1gls, 2pts
Matthews: 62gms, ES 15:57, 29gls, 50pts / PP 2:08, 5gls, 13pts / PK 0:01, 0gls, 0pts

Adjusted to 82gms with McDavid's minutes:

McDavid: ES 26gls, 71pts / PP 3gls, 27pts / PK 1gls, 2pts ---- TOT 30gls, 100pts
Matthews: ES 42gls, 72pts / PP 9gls, 25pts / PK 0gls, 0pts -- TOT 51gls, 97pts

would that have him in the convo with McDavid?

you bet your arse it would.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

"Matthews is better than McDavid this season. No argument there." -LeafFever-
What Do Other People Think of Auston Matthews?

HAHAHAHAHA this is awesome.

Also, don't forget that LeafsFever said this, just a couple posts below

Matthews is a top 5 NHL player.

What's even better, is that this is said just days into the season.

 

[biotk]

That's not the post I quoted

No kidding.

that's not what the post said

The post said exactly what was posted by you. You took it completely out of context (which was completely dishonest of you.), which was easy to see based on the surrounding posts, which was that Matthews had been better than McDavid that season up to that point.

and that wasn't the point.

What was your point? Was it that you will post quotes by people taken out of context because you are dishonest? Was it that you are such a McDavid cultist that no one is ever allowed to claim anything other than McDavid is the best, so even if he has a shitty start to the season, no one else could have had a better start to the season, or if McDavid has a shitty game, then no one else could have had a good game? I realize that McDavid is so insanely great that he could take a team with only 4 1st OA picks this decade to a mere 16 points from a playoff spot, but other players can outplay him from time to time.

 

[tucker3434]

ok I'll answer the "what if it didn't?" question myself:

1st 2yrs:

McDavid: 127gms, ES 2099:23, 16:32mpg, 39gls, 105pts / PP 382:15, 3:01mpg, 6gls, 41pppts / PK 100:58, 0:48mpg,1gls, 2pkpts
Matthews: 144gms, ES 2232:09, 15:30mpg, 61gls, 98pts / PP 334:32, 2:19mpg, 13gls 34pts / PK 3:01, 0:01mpg, 0gls, 0pts

Adjusted to 82gms with McDavid's minutes:

McDavid: ES 25gls, 68pts / PP 4gls, 27pts / PK 1gls, 1pts ---- TOT: 30gls, 96pts
Matthews: ES 37gls, 60pts / PP 10gls, 25pts / PK 0gls, 0pts - TOT: 47gls, 85pts

would that have him in the convo with McDavid? wouldn't be far off.

or 2nd year only:

McDavid: 82gms, ES 17:17, 26gls, 71pts / PP 3:02, 3gls, 27pts / PK 0:48, 1gls, 2pts
Matthews: 62gms, ES 15:57, 29gls, 50pts / PP 2:08, 5gls, 13pts / PK 0:01, 0gls, 0pts

Adjusted to 82gms with McDavid's minutes:

McDavid: ES 26gls, 71pts / PP 3gls, 27pts / PK 1gls, 2pts ---- TOT 30gls, 100pts
Matthews: ES 42gls, 72pts / PP 9gls, 25pts / PK 0gls, 0pts -- TOT 51gls, 97pts

would that have him in the convo with McDavid?

you bet your arse it would.

If you have to make a bunch of excuses for one guy but not the other, that’s a pretty good indicator that they aren’t all that comparable.

 

[Sweetpotato]

Next season. Rocket, Ross, Lindsey and Hart then continuing to dominate the league and spare or beat mcdavid for the rest of their careers.

I don't think he's as good of a playmaker as Connor is a goal scorer so I don't think it'll happen. But that's what it's take for me to consider then on par.

 

[zeke]

If you have to make a bunch of excuses for one guy but not the other, that’s a pretty good indicator that they aren’t all that comparable.

what do you mean by "a bunch"?

matthews gets crucially less ice time than McDavid.

that's not "a bunch".

 

[LamorielloAndSon]

More than double his average amount of assists a season improve every single aspect of his skating except for maybe balance