Houston!!!!!!!!!
- Thread starter Blackhawkswincup
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Bear of Bad News
Your Third or Fourth Favorite HFBoards Admin
- Sep 27, 2005
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That's how it was for me growing up in Seattle - if there's any snow on the roads, school was canceled. The worst was when I'd have zero-hour and would be at school before the announcement was made.
And it makes sense - if you've got a finite amount of money to spend on your city, and you rarely get snow events, why are you going to spend a large portion of your budget on equipment to deal with it? The only real downside is that you get people posting on hockey boards talking about your lack of fans because they can't get to the game in a blizzard.
I will say this first of all, I would like Nashville to keep the Preds but the realist in me says that's a slim chance at best.
I've been to Houston before and I have family there.
The interest in Hockey is quite underground there. Most people are genuinely interested in: NFL Football, College Football, Baseball, Basketball, High-school Football, College Basketball, Rodeos, Soccer, Arena Football, Motor sports, and probably Hockey is at/near the bottom, right with the WNBA.
Granted, the Aeros are an AHL team and it's not expected that they would get that much attention with so many other sports competing. An already competitive NHL team would likely gain a lot of interest in Houston. Could it be as successful as Denver has been with it's relocation? Maybe not, but I think it could develop quite well over, say, 3-5 seasons if the team were competitive.
Unfortunately, the Preds have unloaded some key pieces to their roster and several UFA's are currently uncertainties.
Would KC fare better? Well, there are less sports to compete with but the metro population is less than half of Houston's (probably about 2/5 the size).
I think, however, KC is probably more interested in gaining an NBA team than an NHL team. But, since David Stern isn't vying for expansion, and KC is now apparently 2nd after Oklahoma City (this, of course, assuming that Seattle miraculously isn't relocated there and that Stern actually will expand the NBA to 32 teams) they're probably just desperate to fill with any semi-to-well-drawing tenant.
Is Hamilton a better choice though? Honestly I don't know. I feel that the strength of the Canadian dollar is temporary (2-5 year track) and without that, Hamilton would be hard-pressed to keep a team long-term.
I've been to Houston before and I have family there.
The interest in Hockey is quite underground there. Most people are genuinely interested in: NFL Football, College Football, Baseball, Basketball, High-school Football, College Basketball, Rodeos, Soccer, Arena Football, Motor sports, and probably Hockey is at/near the bottom, right with the WNBA.
Granted, the Aeros are an AHL team and it's not expected that they would get that much attention with so many other sports competing. An already competitive NHL team would likely gain a lot of interest in Houston. Could it be as successful as Denver has been with it's relocation? Maybe not, but I think it could develop quite well over, say, 3-5 seasons if the team were competitive.
Unfortunately, the Preds have unloaded some key pieces to their roster and several UFA's are currently uncertainties.
Would KC fare better? Well, there are less sports to compete with but the metro population is less than half of Houston's (probably about 2/5 the size).
I think, however, KC is probably more interested in gaining an NBA team than an NHL team. But, since David Stern isn't vying for expansion, and KC is now apparently 2nd after Oklahoma City (this, of course, assuming that Seattle miraculously isn't relocated there and that Stern actually will expand the NBA to 32 teams) they're probably just desperate to fill with any semi-to-well-drawing tenant.
Is Hamilton a better choice though? Honestly I don't know. I feel that the strength of the Canadian dollar is temporary (2-5 year track) and without that, Hamilton would be hard-pressed to keep a team long-term.
MAROONSRoad
f/k/a Ghost
Houston could support an NHL team. Excellent arena. Very good fan support for the Aeros. Large population - 5 plus million in the metro area. Arena is very close (walking distance) to the central business district, with tons of corporate support. Texans "get hockey" for some reason. It could be another Dallas in my view - i.e., top ten US market. A far better market than many current markets and would absolutely destroy KC, Nashville, Atlanta, Raleigh, Phoenix and Sunrise imho. At worse it would be like the Raptors in Toronto. The only issue is who would the owners be and what lease would be available at Toyota Center. Ask Les Alexander about that.
JMHO.
GHOST
JMHO.
GHOST
kdb209
Registered User
- Jan 26, 2005
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It's pretty cleat that if there is an NHL team in Houston (in the foreseeable future) Les Alexander will be the owner, so lease terms would be a moot point.
Alexander made an unsuccessful attrempt to buy the Oilers in '98 and move them to Houston and has made multiple public statements about his interest in bringing an NHL team to Houston. A quick Google shows his most recet public comments in '05:
http://sportsbiznews.blogspot.com/2006/12/death-of-pittsburgh-penguins.html
Ted Hoffman
The other Rick Zombo
- Dec 15, 2002
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In reference to that snowstorm in St. Louis that held attendance to 5,410 people:
It wasn't just that it was a snowstorm - it started as an ice storm, with employers sending people home early because of the impending storm. By the time rush hour started, there was already an inch of ice on the highways; at the end of the game, there was another half-inch to inch of ice, and by early the next morning when the precip finally changed over to snow, there was 2-3 inches of ice on the highways.
That is why attendance was so damn low that night.
It wasn't just that it was a snowstorm - it started as an ice storm, with employers sending people home early because of the impending storm. By the time rush hour started, there was already an inch of ice on the highways; at the end of the game, there was another half-inch to inch of ice, and by early the next morning when the precip finally changed over to snow, there was 2-3 inches of ice on the highways.
That is why attendance was so damn low that night.
Good point.
Anyone who tries to use the low attendance that night as a point in any argument isn't proving anything, except how biased and unreasonable they are.
GlennTheFrog
Registered User
No one is going to care about hockey if they dont have a NHL team to cheer for.
Ever been to the city? I'm just saying its going to take time to change the city's attitude towards hockey.
There's no doubt Canada derserves another NHL team but as long their opinion that money can be attained by giving a big US market a team(i.e Houston). How most high priced free agents or star players not wanting to play in small Canadian market instead playing for more $$$$ in the US.
Bear of Bad News
Your Third or Fourth Favorite HFBoards Admin
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We actually have very little say on where the teams go, but we'll talk about it at the next meeting and see what we can do.
If Les Alexander is still interested in bring the NHL to Houston, where was he when the Penguins and now the Predators were up for sale?
Enough of these NHL to Houston ideas.....
Hey, I know that Houston has a huge population base, but...
How much further south does the NHL want to go? The next stop would definitely be Mexico. And there is a huge Latino percentage in Houston, so that would be part of that huge population base which seems so attractive to some who think there should be an NHL team there.
It's one thing to have teams in Florida (with Tampa Bay and Miami being the only NHL cities which would be further south than Houston), at least those cities have a lot of retired northerners, some of whom may have been hockey fans before moving south.
Houston already has the MLB, NFL, and NBA, and all the NHL (hockey) would ever be is an entertaining distraction to those who have enough money to be a fan of 2 or 3 major league sports. The NHL would never be anything more than 4th on the fan interest list, and less than that on the list of sports that people in Houston might themselves participant in.
Kansas City makes much more sense than does Houston. There's no NBA team currently to compete with (and if the NHL get's in first, there might not be an NBA team), and KC could be just a great a rival with St. Louis (and Colorado for that matter... Chiefs vs Broncos) as Houston could be with Dallas.
Other potential expansion rivalries:
Seattle - Vancouver
Portland - Vancouver / San Jose
Milwaukee - Chicago
Salt Lake City - Denver
Louisville - Nashville / Columbus
Hey, I know that Houston has a huge population base, but...
How much further south does the NHL want to go? The next stop would definitely be Mexico. And there is a huge Latino percentage in Houston, so that would be part of that huge population base which seems so attractive to some who think there should be an NHL team there.
It's one thing to have teams in Florida (with Tampa Bay and Miami being the only NHL cities which would be further south than Houston), at least those cities have a lot of retired northerners, some of whom may have been hockey fans before moving south.
Houston already has the MLB, NFL, and NBA, and all the NHL (hockey) would ever be is an entertaining distraction to those who have enough money to be a fan of 2 or 3 major league sports. The NHL would never be anything more than 4th on the fan interest list, and less than that on the list of sports that people in Houston might themselves participant in.
Kansas City makes much more sense than does Houston. There's no NBA team currently to compete with (and if the NHL get's in first, there might not be an NBA team), and KC could be just a great a rival with St. Louis (and Colorado for that matter... Chiefs vs Broncos) as Houston could be with Dallas.
Other potential expansion rivalries:
Seattle - Vancouver
Portland - Vancouver / San Jose
Milwaukee - Chicago
Salt Lake City - Denver
Louisville - Nashville / Columbus
I've talked to Aeros fans before. There doesn't seem to be much interest in the NHL from them. I think they prefer the cheaper costs of AHL hockey.
So I don't really see it happening. But I'm sure such a large market would undoubtedly do well if they did get a team. Doesn't matter how well the Aeros currently do. They're a minor league team in a major league city and they obviously aren't going to do as well as a big league club.
So I don't really see it happening. But I'm sure such a large market would undoubtedly do well if they did get a team. Doesn't matter how well the Aeros currently do. They're a minor league team in a major league city and they obviously aren't going to do as well as a big league club.
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Wow...
4th largest media market in the U.S.
Quickly increasing population base (Translation: NORTHERNERS are moving there.)
Sorry, but you're going to have to find a better argument than "Houston is too far south" or "There's too many latinos down there"
Because all you did was come across as ignorant and clueless.
I checked the U.S. Census Bureau and Los Angeles has a larger Latino demograhic than Houston, both in terms of percentage and numbers. The Kings have been in the NHL since 1967.
Los Angeles (pop 3.8 million) - 46.5% Latino http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/48/4835000.html
Houston (pop 2.0 million) - 37.4% Latino http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/48/4835000.html
I agree that the NHL would always rank behind football, baseball, and basketball in Houston.
Ignorant and clueless...hmmm...
http://www.cis.org/articles/1995/texascoverage.html
In several large Texas cities, including Houston and San Antonio, ethnic minorities outnumber whites, Mr. Martin said. "That process of demographic change is continuing and will continue indefinitely," he said.
Houston, with only 37,501 foreign-born residents in 1970, came in 1990 to have a 58 percent foreign-born population, of which 132,596 were Mexican. By 1990, the white share of Houston's population was down to 40.3 percent. One result was that by 1990, fewer than 70 percent of the Houston population aged 5 and over spoke English at home. One-quarter spoke Spanish, and 125,000 citizens of Houston admitted that they either did not speak English at all or spoke it "not very well."
http://www.prb.org/Articles/2002/US...thsforDomesticandForeignBornMigrants.aspx?p=1
"Among metropolitan areas, New York and Los Angeles attracted the most foreign-born, followed by San Francisco, Chicago, Miami, Dallas, Houston, and Washington, D.C. Together, these eight areas accounted for half of the nation's foreign-born growth during the 1990s and were home to 57 percent of the foreign-born population."
http://www.dallasfed.org/research/pubs/fotexas/fotexas_petersen.html
"Texas is one of the most popular immigrant gateways to the United States. Chart 2 shows the percentage growth of the foreign-born population in the United States, Texas and the state’s six major metros during the 1990s. The foreign-born population share in Texas rose significantly during the decade and in 2000 composed 14 percent of the population compared with 11 percent at the national level."
"The share of the foreign-born in Dallas, Fort Worth and Houston grew by 152 percent, 131 percent and 94 percent, respectively."
And in addition to that:
"since 1989, both San Antonio and Houston have recorded poverty rates slightly higher than the U.S. average. In fact, Houston is home to the highest number of poor Texans (623,493)."
And I checked figures on total population, to establish a difference between Los Angeles and Houston:
Metropolitan Area
Los Angeles–Long Beach–Santa Ana > Pop. 12,950,129 > est. July 2006
Houston–Sugar Land–Baytown > Pop. 5,539,949 > est. July 2006
So yes, Los Angeles supports the NHL, and it has a larger Latino population, but unlike Houston it also has more people from all over the United States, some of which may have brought their hockey interest with them... and also LA has more than twice as many people.
FissionFire
Registered User
Houston would be the most attractive place IMO. They are a huge city with a new arena and an established hockey history (AHL team, WHA team that got Gordie Howe out of retirement). Add in the fact that they have alot of growth from northern relocation (especially Colorado, a great hockey region) and it just seems like a market primed to be tapped. Dallas is proof that hockey can not only succeed in that area, but be very profitable as well. If someone like Wang was looking to cut bait and run from New York, I think a huge market like Houston would be tops on his list.
The only problem in Houston is that the existing hockey franchise, Fission, is already majority owned by an NHL team in Minnesota, which rankles the Stars base since it was they who exited Minnesota to begin with, that's why rumors are saying the Stars want to be in Austin by the end of the decade, because there's no chance the Wild are moving the Aeros to any other market, look at the reaction for Minnesota fans when Norm Green moved to Dallas in 1993, and by the time the Wild were born, forcing the Moose to <gasp> Winnipeg.
kdb209
Registered User
- Jan 26, 2005
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The Aero's would have little to no effect on a relocation/expansion to Houston.
A Houston team would be owned by Les Alexander who already controls the Toyota Center - either the Aeros would try to co-exist as a good chunk of their fanbase is cannibalized and their booking dates squeezed or they would eventually decide to move. Minnesota may vote against it because of the Aeros, but the other 29 owners really wouldn't give a damn - especially if they were pocketing a good chunk of expansion fees.
Would u want to Antagonize the Wild in Houston, kdb, therefore dooming any possibility of a rivalry between Houston & Dallas, then why are the Stars wanting their farm club in Austin as has been proposed, not to mention having San Antonio in the I-10 Market as well.
kdb209
Registered User
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Because the Wild have no god (or league) given right to Houston.
If a team wants to relocate to Houston (which would only happen if Les Alexander picked up a significant ownership stake) the league (or other 28 teams excluding the Wild) would not reject it because it would inconvenience the Aeros/Wild.
If there are plans for expansion and Les Alexander has the $$$'s, the league's selection committee is not going to choose based on the inconvenience to the Wild and the league (and the other 29 teams) would certainly approve it and gladly pocket Alexander's $$$.
Did the league worry about "antagonizing" the Canucks when they awarded an expansion franchise to the Wild and forced the Moose to move to Winnipeg?
And how does the Stars' potential move of their AHL team to Austin have anything to do with Houston or the Wild/Aeros?
And why would "antagonizing" the Wild doom "any possibility of a rivalry between Houston & Dallas"/
SIMPLE POINT, kdb, when has Les Alexander even made a bid to buy the Aeros??????
why does he have an agreement for a team he has never owned play in his building whether it be the Summit, Compaq or the current Toyota Center.
who is the affiliate of the Moose, btw, kdb isn't it Vancouver, after filling the void of the Coyotes to Phoenix, then Glendale, look at the history why did Norm Green move to Dallas when he did, the NHL rectified the error of that relocation by creating the Wild.
kdb209
Registered User
- Jan 26, 2005
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Les Alexander does not need to buy the Aeros - he already controls the building where they play. Alexander owns the Houston Rockets, would be the majority owner of any NHL team, and most importantly controls the Master Lease on the Toyota Center.
The Aeros would find themselves squeezed for dates behind both the Rockets and the new NHL team. There is nothing the Aeros could do if he decides to bring in an NHL team to the Toyota Center - I VERY much doubt that there is anything in the Aeros' lease agreement that would prevent it.
And as I said, an NHL team in Houston would significantly erode the fanbase of the Aeros as well as squeezing them for arena dates. The Wild would then either have to decide whether it would be better for the Aeros to continue to co-exist in Houston or move them to another city.
Yes the NHL "rectified the error of that relocation by creating the Wild" and as a result, the Minnesota Moose were pretty much forced out and moved to Winnipeg. I didn't see anyone back then decrying the fate of the Moose and the inconvenience to the Canucks. Why would an expansion/relocation to Houston be any different w.r.t. the Aeros.
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