OT: Houston (Toronto), We Have a Problem (Babcock/Matthews)

[Redder Winger]

SIMMONS: Are Babcock and Matthews on same page? Maybe, maybe not

I love it

Matthews yearns to be great, yearns to be a difference maker, and sometimes is held back by Babcock’s egalitarian ways. He doesn’t treat Matthews the way Anze Kopitar gets treated in Los Angeles or Aleksandr Barkov gets treated in Florida or Sean Couturier gets treated in Philadelphia.

They play the most among forwards in the National Hockey League. Matthews ranks 71st among forwards in ice time in the NHL. That isn’t where he sees himself, or where he wants to be. He won’t say anything about it because that’s not who he is.

It’s worse with the man advantage, which is a mystery that cannot be explained.

Matthews is the best five-on-five scorer in hockey. A better scorer than Alex Ovechkin at even strength. Ovechkin plays four minutes and 12 seconds a night with the man advantage, most in the NHL. Matthews plays just over two minutes a night on the Leafs power play — or less power-play time than 177 NHL forwards. That defies hockey logic in almost every conceivable way.

Kypreos: Babcock lost Matthews, there was no trust anymore - Sportsnet.ca
Kypreos gets Babcock screwy ways.

Click to read more...

 

[Run the Jewels]

Eh, that's making a mountain out of a molehill. Toronto's defense is trash. If Matthews was a Kopitar like shut down pivot them he'd probably play more minutes. Boston was the better team, the fact Toronto took them to 7 was a good sign for them.

 

[BinCookin]

You love it cause it makes Babcock look bad??

Its toronto media... they are searching for scape goats

 

[kliq]

You love it cause it makes Babcock look bad??

Its toronto media... they are searching for scape goats

Toronto fans/media are the worst. Look over at the TO section on these boards. Babcock is junk, Nylander is garbage etc. etc. etc.

 

[TheMule93]

 

[Claypool]

A lot of players don’t like playing for Babcock. This shouldn’t be news to anyone.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

This is nothing.

 

[Redder Winger]

Toronto's best young player in decades might be sick of their golden boy coach.
That's not nothing.

 

[Shaman464]

The problem is that Toronto's back end is amazingly bad for a playoff team. They have to play a very good team defense to overcome it. To do that sometimes you have to play matchups and put your best defensive forwards out against a team's best offensive forwards. This will cut into the top two lines' playing time somewhat. Its not optimal, but until they get some stalwarts on the back end they will have to continue to play the matchups. Finally, he averaged the most time on his team of any forward. The only players getting more time than him were the goalies and the top defenders.

Beyond that you have articles like this popping up: Leafs' Babcock, Matthews refute reports of rift

 

[Reds4Life]

Fake news. Sad.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Toronto's best young player in decades might be sick of their golden boy coach.
That's not nothing.

Maybe the golden boy needs to become an actual man first rather than sulk...

he was not better than bergeron and he never once made chara look like a 41 year old dmen, pathetic really..

 

[obey86]

Babcock always seemed to play his best players less time than the best players on other teams.

 

[jkutswings]

Toronto is not yet built to go far in the playoffs. They have multiple key pieces in place, but need serious help on defense, and are overall a young team learning to win. It's no shock that some frustrations exist - I'd be surprised if losing in the first round amidst the pressure cooker that is the hockey capital of the world DIDN'T yield some frustration.

Babcock pushes players' buttons. That's part of his approach, which overall has led to a successful coaching career. But I would much sooner ask for the front office to help the defense, and for Austin to continue to grow as a player, than to get caught up in a witch hunt of whether Babcock and Matthews are no longer BFFs.

 

[Heaton]

Toronto's best young player in decades might be sick of their golden boy coach.
That's not nothing.

Meh, you seek out what you want to see. This is nothing more than confirmation bias.

Though I do agree that it's strange that Matthews isn't used like the top center he is.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Meh, you seek out what you want to see. This is nothing more than confirmation bias.

Though I do agree that it's strange that Matthews isn't used like the top center he is.

His usage is strange across the board really, but I just really don't understand the PP deployment.

I remember each year Babcock would attempt splitting Datsyuk and Zetterberg and occasionally he would try it with the PP as well. But he would abandon it quickly realizing it was stupid. I just don't get why he wants Matthews on PP2 at all, it is really dumb.

 

[Redder Winger]

Meh, you seek out what you want to see. This is nothing more than confirmation bias.

Though I do agree that it's strange that Matthews isn't used like the top center he is.

These aren't my words, but the words of Kypreos and Simmons.

I've seen enough of Babcock's ego.
It's not enough for him to win. He's got to win while showing what a good coach he is.
He's got his ways and there's nothing anyone can do about it.
And as good as Babcock is, he's also his own worst enemy in pretty obvious ways, like over reliance on the Abdelkaders, Glendenings, Hymans, Hunwicks, or alienatiing his top players.

Like I said elsewhere on this board, Babcock has another 1-2 years to move this team forward before he turns into a pumpkin.
If this team is still a first round loser next year...expect even more fallout.

And if players in Toronto are unhappy, the world will find out.
Compared to the meek, mousey reporters in Detroit, Toronto's reporters are a bunch of rabid hyenas.

 

[Redder Winger]

I sure do with we had Jeff Blashwhateverhisnameis.

You've got 1-2 years left. If Babcock hasn't taken this team beyond round 2 by then, this golden chalice will be poison.

 

[Spirit of 67]

You've got 1-2 years left. If Babcock hasn't taken this team beyond round 2 by then, this golden chalice will be poison.

Agreed. If he hasn't won at least a round (or 2) in 2 years, I can see him fired.

Since the day he was hired I've been trying to come up with a coach who took over a team that immediately went into a rebuild and that coach saw it through to the end (Cup win) and I can't.
So ya, it would come as no surprise that we don't win until he's gone.
Doesn't mean we don't have an excellent coach and a bright future.

 

[Lampedampe]

These aren't my words, but the words of Kypreos and Simmons.

I've seen enough of Babcock's ego.
It's not enough for him to win. He's got to win while showing what a good coach he is.
He's got his ways and there's nothing anyone can do about it.
And as good as Babcock is, he's also his own worst enemy in pretty obvious ways, like over reliance on the Abdelkaders, Glendenings, Hymans, Hunwicks, or alienatiing his top players.

Like I said elsewhere on this board, Babcock has another 1-2 years to move this team forward before he turns into a pumpkin.
If this team is still a first round loser next year...expect even more fallout.

And if players in Toronto are unhappy, the world will find out.
Compared to the meek, mousey reporters in Detroit, Toronto's reporters are a bunch of rabid hyenas.

Alienating his top players? He rode his entire success on the back of guys like Lids/Dats/Z, he never shyed away from playing them a ton.

I saw people talking about Babcock not playing Rielly enough, and then going on to say that Babcock never gives his top defensemen big minutes.. It sure as hell looked like he played Kronwall a ton, and Lidström before that.

It can be frustrating seeing Babcock put players in the doghouse though. But this notion that Babcock doesn't give enough minutes to his best players is a totally new one.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I'm sorry, what do the Red Wings have to do with this?

Babcock is long gone, who cares?

 

[Redder Winger]

I'm sorry, what do the Red Wings have to do with this?

Babcock is long gone, who cares?

That's what OT is for, right?
Sorry if I misunderstood what OT is.

 

[Redder Winger]

Agreed. If he hasn't won at least a round (or 2) in 2 years, I can see him fired.

Since the day he was hired I've been trying to come up with a coach who took over a team that immediately went into a rebuild and that coach saw it through to the end (Cup win) and I can't.
So ya, it would come as no surprise that we don't win until he's gone.
Doesn't mean we don't have an excellent coach and a bright future.

Yeah, I just think you probably wanted a different guy for the first 2-3 years of Shanaplan, then you bring in Babcock when it's serious time.
A year or two of bending the team to his will and you have a contender.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Toronto's best young player in decades might be sick of their golden boy coach.
That's not nothing.

Eh, insanely talented player wants to win badly. Toronto is not as talented as Tampa or Boston. This is a front office issue, not a coaching issue. I thought Shattenkirk would have been a perfect fit in Toronto but he wanted to miss the playoffs and watch the NYR burn it down to the ground.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Alienating his top players? He rode his entire success on the back of guys like Lids/Dats/Z, he never shyed away from playing them a ton.

I saw people talking about Babcock not playing Rielly enough, and then going on to say that Babcock never gives his top defensemen big minutes.. It sure as hell looked like he played Kronwall a ton, and Lidström before that.

It can be frustrating seeing Babcock put players in the doghouse though. But this notion that Babcock doesn't give enough minutes to his best players is a totally new one.

Yep, people conveniently forget Lids, Rafalski and Kronwall had their best seasons in terms of point totals under Babcock. It's only once the talent dried up that he started playing low event, defense heavy hockey.

 

[SuperScript29]

He threw an F bomb at 1:15 then tried to recover from it LOL....