Houle vs Bergevin

Which is the worst GM in the Habs history?


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Sorinth

Registered User
Jan 18, 2013
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With context...Houle is still demonstrably worse as a GM.

we can make excuses about him being a beer salesman forced to be GM or that he was forced to cut costs.

It still doesn't excuse some of the moves he made, which I detailed in an earlier post.

Bergevin isn't exactly glowing, but none of his trades have done or will have accomplished the long lasting damage that some of Houle's trade still have an footprint on even today.

Bergevin's main problem aren't for what he's done...more for what he hasn't done.

So Houle trading Damphousse and Turgeon is the reason we don't have a #1 center today?

Give me a break.

The reason we don't have a #1 center is because Bergevin decided to go with Desharnais and now Drouin instead of developing Galchenyuk.

Not too mention getting rid of Subban, Markov, Sergachev creates an even bigger hole then losing Damphouse/Turgeon.
 

Sorinth

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Jan 18, 2013
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It was mind boggling at the time that they traded a player coming off a 98pt season (Turgeon) for a player coming off a 46pt season (Corson).

It's not mind boggling, we made that trade to cut salary pure and simple.
 

Laurentide

Registered User
Mar 24, 2018
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Edmonton, Alberta
I get where you're going with this but no way would have the Flyers pulled the trigger in a 1 vs 1 trade. Leclair was a 45 pts winger.
I never thought Desjardins was as good as others thought he was. To me he was just a slightly more talented Patrice Brisebois, another guy I had no time for. I loathe defensemen who push and shove but don't hit. Desjardins never intimidated anyone or prevented any opposing player from entering our zone and doing whatever they wanted to do. His terrible defense was ignored because he contributed offense, but I always thought of him as a fraud when it came to playing defense. He was a poor man's Paul Coffey; an "offenseman" or "rover" more than a defenseman. I prefer defensemen who defend. If they can also score that's a bonus but their primary function should be to defend. Desjardins was never much good for that.
 
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417

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So Houle trading Damphousse and Turgeon is the reason we don't have a #1 center today?

Give me a break.

The reason we don't have a #1 center is because Bergevin decided to go with Desharnais and now Drouin instead of developing Galchenyuk.

Not too mention getting rid of Subban, Markov, Sergachev creates an even bigger hole then losing Damphouse/Turgeon.
That's not what I said...

I said some of the trades Houle did still have a lasting footprint on the Habs today.

Houle traded Damphouse/Turgeon, who TO THIS DAY, remain the last PPG centers this franchise has had.

THAT's the footprint i'm talking about.

I didn't say anything about it being Houle's fault.

Subban, Sergachev and markov creating an even bigger hole than losing Damphousse/Turgeon?

LOL funny...

Damphousse & Turgeon were both traded more than 20yrs ago...and the Habs have STILL not acquired or drafted a center whose even come close to having the impact both of those players had.

Subban was traded for Shea Weber...Weber isn't exactly chopped liver

Mikail Sergachev for Jonathan Drouin? How is that even remotely comparable to the Habs trading Pierre Turgeon (over 1300pts ) + Craig Conroy (over 1000 games & over 500pts) for Shayne Corson (played 4 uninspiring seasons in Montreal before moving on) + Murray Baron (played 60 games for the Habs).



pffftt
 

417

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It's not mind boggling, we made that trade to cut salary pure and simple.
If they wanted to trade salary...

They could of done much better when trading a PPG center than Shane Corson & Murray Baron.

That deal barely saved any money at all.
 

nhlfan9191

Registered User
Aug 4, 2010
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Bergevin also has a chance of making it worse. He's surrounded by the same peckerheads.

I’m aware. It’s looking terrible right now and I’m expecting him to create a bigger mess but who knows. For our sakes, I hope he does start to wake up.
 

Sorinth

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Jan 18, 2013
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That's not what I said...

I said some of the trades Houle did still have a lasting footprint on the Habs today.

Houle traded Damphouse/Turgeon, who TO THIS DAY, remain the last PPG centers this franchise has had.

THAT's the footprint i'm talking about.

I didn't say anything about it being Houle's fault.

Subban, Sergachev and markov creating an even bigger hole than losing Damphousse/Turgeon?

LOL funny...

Damphousse & Turgeon were both traded more than 20yrs ago...and the Habs have STILL not acquired or drafted a center whose even come close to having the impact both of those players had.

Subban was traded for Shea Weber...Weber isn't exactly chopped liver

Mikail Sergachev for Jonathan Drouin? How is that even remotely comparable to the Habs trading Pierre Turgeon (over 1300pts ) + Craig Conroy (over 1000 games & over 500pts) for Shayne Corson (played 4 uninspiring seasons in Montreal before moving on) + Murray Baron (played 60 games for the Habs).



pffftt

Koivu was as good or better, Plekanec had a couple of seasons where he was as good, Galchenyuk is near a ppg pace when used at center. It's disingenuous to compare #s today vs what they were 20 years ago. It's much harder to be a ppg player today then it was 20 years ago.

And 20 years from now it's extremely unlikely we will have a found a defenceman as good as Subban.
 
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Sorinth

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If they wanted to trade salary...

They could of done much better when trading a PPG center than Shane Corson & Murray Baron.

That deal barely saved any money at all.

It was what 5-10% of what they were spending on salaries back then. Hardly chump change.

Not too mention since they were still youngish, they would be looking for raises that we couldn't afford.
 
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beowulf

Not a nice guy.
Jan 29, 2005
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Ottawa
People showing their ages, as bad as Bergevin has been he is still a step up on Houle. Peanut had no experience at all in hockey management, he was working for Molson beer at the time...Trading Roy instead of trying to calm the situation, especially trading and the teams hard working captain for three average at best players...ouch.
His second biggest mistake was trading away Turgeon. So two star players traded away under Houle within a year or so of him taking over and no star players in return.

He also gave up a sleeper in the Turgeon in Craig Conroy in return for an aging Corson, who did have one strong season upon his return, slow as molasses Baron on defense and a 5th rounder that turned into Gennady Razin.

And for the hat trick of bad moves he gave up the Habs 1st rounder, 10th overall in 99, for an aging Trevor Linden.

He also trade Bellow for Bureau


But even a terrible GM makes some good moves. Trading Malakhov for Souray and another player and pick was nice.
 
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417

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Koivu was as good or better, Plekanec had a couple of seasons where he was as good, Galchenyuk is near a ppg pace when used at center. It's disingenuous to compare #s today vs what they were 20 years ago. It's much harder to be a ppg player today then it was 20 years ago.

Koivu (due to injuries) & Plekanec and especially Galchenyuk (lol) were NEVER as good as Damphousse or Turgeon were in their primes.

Come on man.

And 20 years from now it's extremely unlikely we will have a found a defenceman as good as Subban.
Don't you mean eternity?
 

417

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It was what 5-10% of what they were spending on salaries back then. Hardly chump change.

Not too mention since they were still youngish, they would be looking for raises that we couldn't afford.
Pierre Turgeon + Craig Conroy + Rory Fitzpatrick for Shayne Corson + Murray Baron

Saved the Montreal Canadiens a grand total of 1,125000.

I guess you're suggesting that trading away a PPG center and another budding 2 way center who would go on to play over 1000 games and record over 500pts was worth it to acquire an over-the-hill Shayne Corson and Murray Baron all to save a little over 1M huh?
 

Sorinth

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Pierre Turgeon + Craig Conroy + Rory Fitzpatrick for Shayne Corson + Murray Baron

Saved the Montreal Canadiens a grand total of 1,125000.

I guess you're suggesting that trading away a PPG center and another budding 2 way center who would go on to play over 1000 games and record over 500pts was worth it to acquire an over-the-hill Shayne Corson and Murray Baron all to save a little over 1M huh?

There's a limited number of roster spot, since Controy/Fitzpatrick weren't roster players, there's still the salary of whoever Baron replaced that you have to factor. The trade saved 2m.

And no it's not a good idea to make that trade to save 2m, but it also wasn't Houle's decision to cut salary. Houle didn't get a good deal, but let's not pretend his hands weren't tied.
 

yianik

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Jun 30, 2009
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some trade gems from his era as GM of this team

Brian Bellows for Marc Bureau
- sure, Bellows wasn't what he was at that point, but he was much better than Marc Bureau

Patrick Roy + Mike Kean for Jocelyn Thibault + Martin Rucinsky + Andrei Kovalenko
- I don't even need to qualify the disaster that this trade turned out to be.

Pierre Turgeon + Craig Conroy + Rory Fitzpatrick for Shayne Corson + Murray Baron + 5th round pick
- I mean he traded All Star Dman Rory Fitzpatrick...enough said lol

Donald Brashear for Jason Cullimore
- Yes, not huge names, but Brashear went on to have a long career as an enforcer in the NHL, arguably one of the most feared during his time, meanwhile the Habs became a pushover physically...in a previous era of hockey when physical intimation was much more prevalent, this was bad

Darcy Tucker + Stephane Richer + David Wilkie for Igor Ulanov + Patrick Poulin + Mick Vukota
- Sure Tucker wasn't the most liked player in the NHL, but he had a very long and fairly productive career after being traded from Montreal both for the Lightning but especially the Leafs

Valeri Bure for Jonas Hoglund + Zarley Zalapski
- Not a major blunder but again, traded a productive player for nothing

Mark Recchi for Dainius Zubrus + a bunch of picks that never amounted to anything
- Houle traded Recchi because the Habs thought he was done...he only went on to play another 13yrs and capped off his HOF career with a Stanley Cup with the Bruins

Vincent Damphousse for + 1st (Marcel Hossa) + a few other picks who never played in the NHL
- This trade lives in infamy because that was the last PPG center the Habs ever had

1st round pick for Trevor Linden
- Linden was finished at that point of his career, he didn't last very...guess the only redeeming part about this trade was that the 1st round pick traded was in 1999, a historically bad 1st round

Eric Weirich for Patrick Traverse
- He acquired Patrick Traverse

I suppose Rejean Houle's tenure as a GM isn't so bad if you ignore the fact that he traded

Hall of Famers: Patrick Roy, Mark Recchi

Not quite hall of famers but very, very good players: Pierre Turgeon, Vincent Damphousse & Brian Bellows

A couple of players who ended up playing over or near 1000 games: Darcy Tucker + Donald Brashear + Craig Conroy + Eric Weinrich

and basically got nothing for it other than a few decent years from Martin Rucinsky & Shayne Corson...I mean sure, I guess this pails in comparison to PK Subban for Shea Weber or Mikhail Sergachev for Jonathan Drouin.

lol

Nice summary.

Yes, Houle traded away 3 centres , Damphousse, Turgeon and Craig Conroy.

People have said Houle had financial constraints and so made some bad trades as he was forced. Not denying it but did not mean we had to get a lot less value back..
Damphousse was a money thing as the Habs thought Dampousse would want at least whatever on a new contract. Damphousse came out and said that was not the case. Sounds like they could have signed him, if they had just talked to him. Sigh. Conroy was just a throw in and Turgeon , oh good God.
 

TopTenPlayz

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Jun 6, 2014
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Turgeon was traded because he was being put on the wing due to the emergence of Koivu. Turgeon wanted to play center and felt disrespected since he was one of the most productive centers in the 90's and he was the team's captain. He essentially gave them an ultimatum and similarly to the Roy deal, Houle likely took the first offer that was given to him and dealt him within days. Recchi was traded due to salary. The Habs didn't think they could afford to re-sign him. As for Damphousse, they thought he was on a steep decline and wasn't prepared to offer him what he wanted. They traded him away and then proceeded to give a similar contract to Trevor Linden whose rights they acquired (a month before the 1999 UFA period in which Linden would have become an UFA) by giving up a 1st round pick btw :ha:. Turned out Linden was way worse than Damphousse as the latter had some really good years with SJ and Linden couldn't crack 35 points with the Habs. Houle was the worse I've ever seen.
 
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417

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Turgeon was traded because he was being put on the wing due to the emergence of Koivu. Turgeon wanted to play center and felt disrespected since he was one of the most productive centers in the 90's and he was the team's captain. He essentially gave them an ultimatum and similarly to the Roy deal, Houle likely took the first offer that was given to him and dealt him within days. Recchi was traded due to salary. The Habs didn't think they could afford to re-sign him. As for Damphousse, they thought he was on a steep decline and wasn't prepared to offer him what he wanted. They traded him away and then proceeded to give a similar contract to Trevor Linden whose rights they acquired (a month before the 1999 UFA period in which Linden would have become an UFA) by giving up a 1st round pick btw :ha:. Turned out Linden was way worse than Damphousse as the latter had some really good years with SJ and Linden couldn't crack 35 points with the Habs. Houle was the worse I've ever seen.
Agreed - I can't believe the result of this poll.

what a joke
 

beowulf

Not a nice guy.
Jan 29, 2005
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There's a limited number of roster spot, since Controy/Fitzpatrick weren't roster players, there's still the salary of whoever Baron replaced that you have to factor. The trade saved 2m.

And no it's not a good idea to make that trade to save 2m, but it also wasn't Houle's decision to cut salary. Houle didn't get a good deal, but let's not pretend his hands weren't tied.
Please there were much better deals out there I am sure. You are giving up a superstar player, second time during his tenure as GM, for bits and pieces in return. Conroy might not have been a regular yet but he had just put up a ppg in the AHL including 31 goals and had 10 goals and 16 points in only 9 games before he was traded.

The Turgeon trade is just a small step below the Roy one for worst trades since the last time the Habs won the Cup.
 
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Sorinth

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Jan 18, 2013
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Please there were much better deals out there I am sure. You are giving up a superstar player, second time during his tenure as GM, for bits and pieces in return. Conroy might not have been a regular yet but he had just put up a ppg in the AHL including 31 goals and had 10 goals and 16 points in only 9 games before he was traded.

The Turgeon trade is just a small step below the Roy one for worst trades since the last time the Habs won the Cup.

I'm sure there were better deals out there, Houle was a bad GM who got poor returns. But the reason Bergevin is worse is that he was forced to trade his star players, Bergevin decided to trade his star players (Or let them go for nothing) because he thought it would make the team better.
 
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417

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I'm sure there were better deals out there, Houle was a bad GM who got poor returns. But the reason Bergevin is worse is that he was forced to trade his star players, Bergevin decided to trade his star players (Or let them go for nothing) because he thought it would make the team better.

Pierre Turgeon was traded for nothing
Vincent Damphousse was traded for nothing
Patrick Roy was traded for peanuts which essentially amount to nothing

PK Subban was not traded for nothing
Markov was let go and went to finish his career in the KHL...he was 38yrs old. If they had managed to re-sign him last year, we'd be saying goodbye to him right now

It's not even close to comparable...you despise Bergevin now, which is fair, but to say ANY of his moves have even close the same negative impact as Rejean Houle's is just nonsense.
 

Sorinth

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Jan 18, 2013
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Pierre Turgeon was traded for nothing
Vincent Damphousse was traded for nothing
Patrick Roy was traded for peanuts which essentially amount to nothing

PK Subban was not traded for nothing
Markov was let go and went to finish his career in the KHL...he was 38yrs old. If they had managed to re-sign him last year, we'd be saying goodbye to him right now

It's not even close to comparable...you despise Bergevin now, which is fair, but to say ANY of his moves have even close the same negative impact as Rejean Houle's is just nonsense.

Bergevin thought letting Markov go and replacing him with Alzner/Schelmko/Streit would make this team better.

That's worse then being forced to trade a guy and getting a crappy return.
 

417

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Bergevin thought letting Markov go and replacing him with Alzner/Schelmko/Streit would make this team better.

That's worse then being forced to trade a guy and getting a crappy return.
I don't even think it's remotely comparable...

To each his own, I'm not about to tell you how to answer the poll question.
 

OnTheRun

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May 17, 2014
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Pierre Turgeon was traded for nothing
Vincent Damphousse was traded for nothing
Patrick Roy was traded for peanuts which essentially amount to nothing

PK Subban was not traded for nothing
Markov was let go and went to finish his career in the KHL...he was 38yrs old. If they had managed to re-sign him last year, we'd be saying goodbye to him right now

It's not even close to comparable...you despise Bergevin now, which is fair, but to say ANY of his moves have even close the same negative impact as Rejean Houle's is just nonsense.

Houle was forced to trade Roy, Damphousse and Turgeon. Yeah, he got severely short-changed on all 3 deals, but it wasn't his idea to begin with and keeping them wasn't an option.

Molson Co. created the perfect storm and there was no way for a unqualified GM (at every level) to get through this looking good.
 

417

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Houle was forced to trade Roy, Damphousse and Turgeon. Yeah, he got severely short-changed on all 3 deals, but it wasn't his idea to begin with and keeping them wasn't an option.

Molson Co. created the perfect storm and there was no way for a unqualified GM (at every level) to get through this looking good.
If what you're saying about Houle is true...then why don't we just change the poll question from Houle vs Bergevin to just Corey vs Bergevin

Since Houle isn't accountable for his trades..

Houle or Corey...it doesn't matter, IMO, that era was way more damaging to this franchise than anything Bergrvin has ever done.

My biggest gripes with Bergrvin reside with what he has NOT done as opposed to what he has done.
 

LeHab

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Aug 31, 2005
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Houle was forced to trade Roy, Damphousse and Turgeon. Yeah, he got severely short-changed on all 3 deals, but it wasn't his idea to begin with and keeping them wasn't an option.

Roy vs Tremblay case could have been managed a lot better. That is on Houle.
 

OnTheRun

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May 17, 2014
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If what you're saying about Houle is true...then why don't we just change the poll question from Houle vs Bergevin to just Corey vs Bergevin

Since Houle isn't accountable for his trades..

Houle or Corey...it doesn't matter, IMO, that era was way more damaging to this franchise than anything Bergrvin has ever done.

My biggest gripes with Bergrvin reside with what he has NOT done as opposed to what he has done.

And no one is arguing against that.

You just can't evaluate a sock puppet who was set up to fail the same way you would evaluate any other GM. You're judging history (ie: the era of both GM.) here, and you can't do that without context.
 

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