Houle vs Bergevin

[Runner77]

I voted Bergevin and I have absolutely no faith in him. But reality is he’s still GM and that means he does have a chance to try and change so I guess we’ll see what transpires here.

Bergevin also has a chance of making it worse. He's surrounded by the same peckerheads.

 

[The Great Weal]

Four. Sergachev for another okay winger is getting dangerously close to disaster level.

Five. Giving up 2 high 2nds in a deep draft for a 3rd liner that was asking for a lot. Didn't even bother waiting until the 2nd to know what players were available.

 

[Runner77]

Look in your toilet after you poo. That's Houle resume.

This site is a laugh a minute.

 

[Kriss E]

Bergevin also has a chance of making it worse. He's surrounded by the same peckerheads.

I'm sure you saw this

Don't like JC but thought he was pretty good there, just wish he would cut half his words. That guy likes the sound of his voice way too much.
Was good to hear two locals french media guys going "wtf is going on" though.

 

[Runner77]

I'm sure you saw this

Don't like JC but thought he was pretty good there, just wish he would cut half his words. That guy likes the sound of his voice way too much.
Was good to hear two locals french media guys going "wtf is going on" though.

I had the show PVRed but hadn't gotten to it yet. Thanks for sharing, I really enjoyed it. The take from both of them does justice to what the average fan has been taking in and has been frustrated about. The guy on the left of Labbé was highly representative of the écoeurement factor that drove a lot of fans to stop watching before December came around. Fans are not stupid, they can readily appreciate when they're being fed bunk and won't put up with it for too long.

I liked JC's description of the PC -- how he portrayed the crazy divergence between Geoff advocating transparency followed by Bergevin's nebulous replies and secret plan allusions.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Bergevin is the worst.

At least I have sympathy for Houle.

 

[Bieber fever]

Hard to judge Houle when he had to cut spending.

Bergevin is givens everything.I read somewhere the staff ( director , scouts , advisors ect.) is double from the Gainey/Gauthier era.MB can spend to the cap limit and have no restrain for real cash salary

 

[McGuires Corndog]

Could be recency bias, but Bergevin.

Like Bieber Fever just said, Houle had a mandate to cut spending. Not saying he went about it the right way, or did a good job.. but the circumstances are very different.

Either way the fact there is even an arguement is bad enough. It’s real bad.

 

[yianik]

What exactly were Gauthier's bad moves as GM?

I read somewhere that the habs were trying to cut spending when Houle was GM, and he was kind of forced to make bad trades. That must be considered if true.

Btw didn't Houle draft some Russian that Bergevin didn't want to re-sign last year??

The Canadian dollar had cratered and The Habs were not making money. Molson Inc. , wanted the Habs break even during the regular season, which meant am internal cap of about $40M.

There were 6 or 7 teams that had the money, including the Leafs, Flyer, Detroit, Blues, Rangers etc, and could spend like $55M-$60M.

Houle still made stupid trades regardless.

I will give him this. He was asked to step in by Corey and as the good soldier he was he took it on. For the CH. He shouldnt have, but he stepped up when the team came calling.

MB came looking for this job.

 

[Doc McKenna]

MB had zero to do with the habs before he was GM, this is just another gig for him. The worst is obviously Molson, because his family is responsible for the worst of the worst GMs. Nuff said.

 

[Kriss E]

I had the show PVRed but hadn't gotten to it yet. Thanks for sharing, I really enjoyed it. The take from both of them does justice to what the average fan has been taking in and has been frustrated about. The guy on the left of Labbé was highly representative of the écoeurement factor that drove a lot of fans to stop watching before December came around. Fans are not stupid, they can readily appreciate when they're being fed bunk and won't put up with it for too long.

I liked JC's description of the PC -- how he portrayed the crazy divergence between Geoff advocating transparency followed by Bergevin's nebulous replies and secret plan allusions.

Ya that was quite the funny. It's like they are not even trying to be all that discreet about it. Just say one thing, and act the opposite way right after. Just like talking about how they have this great plan, but hey, can't tell anything about. Oh wait, not true, Molson elaborated. We are going to sign free agents, make trades, draft players, and hire personnel. Thanks Geoff. No fox given.

Guy A said Bergevin committed to coming on the show in next 3 weeks, let's see if that happens.
Maybe he'll come on for half the time planned and then make them take the footage down too.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Ya that was quite the funny. It's like they are not even trying to be all that discreet about it. Just say one thing, and act the opposite way right after. Just like talking about how they have this great plan, but hey, can't tell anything about. Oh wait, not true, Molson elaborated. We are going to sign free agents, make trades, draft players, and hire personnel. Thanks Geoff. No fox given.

Guy A said Bergevin committed to coming on the show in next 3 weeks, let's see if that happens.
Maybe he'll come on for half the time planned and then make them take the footage down too.

Will be on next Sunday:

 

[WeThreeKings]

Bergevin is worse.

Houle had a gun to his head and did what he was told to do. Sure he was incompetent but he was forced to shed dollars due to the week Canadian dollar at the time and it was a time where a lot of Canadian teams were basically forced to lose talent to American teams.

Bergevin made all his terrible moves of his own volition. Everything he did he did because he thought it was the right move.

 

[yianik]

Bergevin is worse.

Houle had a gun to his head and did what he was told to do. Sure he was incompetent but he was forced to shed dollars due to the week Canadian dollar at the time and it was a time where a lot of Canadian teams were basically forced to lose talent to American teams.

Bergevin made all his terrible moves of his own volition. Everything he did he did because he thought it was the right move.

A difference I see between Houle and MB is that while at the end of the day bad moves were made by both, part of MBs problem is his personality, and more specifically his ego.

MB got his back up against PK, Markov and Rads and situations escalated out of control because MB got angry because he couldnt impose his will on these players and so it became personal.

PK should never gotten to arbitration and if it wasnt for Molson stepping in PK would have gotten a 2 year deal and then walked as a UFA. MBs approach to Markov and Rads has been well gone over here, and it was terrible.

So while both these men screwed this team, I dislike MB as a person because he is a nasty, arrogant piece of work, and doesnt know what he is doing, whereas Houle just didnt know what he is doing.

 

[badbrains]

I wasn't around for houle

Can someone enlight me with his resumè

Traded Patrick Roy and Captain Mike Keane for Larry, Curley and Mo.

 

[417]

Would of been fun to have HF boards around the time Rejean Houle was running this team.

 

[NORiculous]

I always thought Irving Grundman was the worst, but Bergevin is gaining on him exponentially.

Yep is he but not many know him around here. I would say Houle is 2nd Gauthier 3rd and then MB.

 

[NORiculous]

Hard to judge Houle when he had to cut spending.

Bergevin is givens everything.I read somewhere the staff ( director , scouts , advisors ect.) is double from the Gainey/Gauthier era.MB can spend to the cap limit and have no restrain for real cash salary

Trading two top 6 centers (Damphousse and Turgeon) and a top G (Roy) for spare parts is very very very bad. Its so bad that it has been since Houle that the Habs are in search for a top C. They got lucky to get Theo and Price in G but as for the top C, they have never recovered even if 4 different GMs have been trying since. (A.Savard, Gainey, Gauthier, Bergevin)

That explaines a little WHY Gainey went to get Gomez. Although it failed miserably, there was some logique to it at the time.

But most people like Houle because he is a good guy, so he is judged much more softly by the fans then the others that came after him.

 

[Sorinth]

I voted Bergevin because Houle has a built in excuse. Houle was mandated to cut costs which means trading veterans for young players and prospects. He didn't do a good job with the scouting department and so his returns were all sub-par. It wasn't like he thought his trades would make his team better, they were just the best he could get given a bunch of restraints that were outside his control.

Bergevin doesn't have that excuse, he can spend as much as he wants, can go in whatever direction he wants, he has all the freedom a GM can ask for. So everything is on him.

 

[417]

some trade gems from his era as GM of this team

Brian Bellows for Marc Bureau
- sure, Bellows wasn't what he was at that point, but he was much better than Marc Bureau

Patrick Roy + Mike Kean for Jocelyn Thibault + Martin Rucinsky + Andrei Kovalenko
- I don't even need to qualify the disaster that this trade turned out to be.

Pierre Turgeon + Craig Conroy + Rory Fitzpatrick for Shayne Corson + Murray Baron + 5th round pick
- I mean he traded All Star Dman Rory Fitzpatrick...enough said lol

Donald Brashear for Jason Cullimore
- Yes, not huge names, but Brashear went on to have a long career as an enforcer in the NHL, arguably one of the most feared during his time, meanwhile the Habs became a pushover physically...in a previous era of hockey when physical intimation was much more prevalent, this was bad

Darcy Tucker + Stephane Richer + David Wilkie for Igor Ulanov + Patrick Poulin + Mick Vukota
- Sure Tucker wasn't the most liked player in the NHL, but he had a very long and fairly productive career after being traded from Montreal both for the Lightning but especially the Leafs

Valeri Bure for Jonas Hoglund + Zarley Zalapski
- Not a major blunder but again, traded a productive player for nothing

Mark Recchi for Dainius Zubrus + a bunch of picks that never amounted to anything
- Houle traded Recchi because the Habs thought he was done...he only went on to play another 13yrs and capped off his HOF career with a Stanley Cup with the Bruins

Vincent Damphousse for + 1st (Marcel Hossa) + a few other picks who never played in the NHL
- This trade lives in infamy because that was the last PPG center the Habs ever had

1st round pick for Trevor Linden
- Linden was finished at that point of his career, he didn't last very...guess the only redeeming part about this trade was that the 1st round pick traded was in 1999, a historically bad 1st round

Eric Weirich for Patrick Traverse
- He acquired Patrick Traverse

I suppose Rejean Houle's tenure as a GM isn't so bad if you ignore the fact that he traded

Hall of Famers: Patrick Roy, Mark Recchi

Not quite hall of famers but very, very good players: Pierre Turgeon, Vincent Damphousse & Brian Bellows

A couple of players who ended up playing over or near 1000 games: Darcy Tucker + Donald Brashear + Craig Conroy + Eric Weinrich

and basically got nothing for it other than a few decent years from Martin Rucinsky & Shayne Corson...I mean sure, I guess this pails in comparison to PK Subban for Shea Weber or Mikhail Sergachev for Jonathan Drouin.

lol

 

[Sorinth]

Trading two top 6 centers (Damphousse and Turgeon) and a top G (Roy) for spare parts is very very very bad. Its so bad that it has been since Houle that the Habs are in search for a top C. They got lucky to get Theo and Price in G but as for the top C, they have never recovered even if 4 different GMs have been trying since. (A.Savard, Gainey, Gauthier, Bergevin)

That explaines a little WHY Gainey went to get Gomez. Although it failed miserably, there was some logique to it at the time.

But most people like Houle because he is a good guy, so he is judged much more softly by the fans then the others that came after him.

But that's the thing, he didn't go out and trade those players because he thought it was a good idea, he traded them because he was told he had to.

Bergevin actually thinks/thought getting rid of Subban would make the team better. That's much worse.

 

[417]

But that's the thing, he didn't go out and trade those players because he thought it was a good idea, he traded them because he was told he had to.

Bergevin actually thinks/thought getting rid of Subban would make the team better. That's much worse.

Whether or not he was mandated to cut costs...the amount of talent he traded out vs what he got back in return is something that should be sealed away in records forever.

When you trade Hall of Fame talent, you should be able to get back some pieces that become mainstays on your roster...

 

[zzoo]

Come on.....Houle is the worst, by very far.

 

[NORiculous]

Come on.....Houle is the worst, by very far.

Anger blinds.

 

[Laurentide]

You can argue about which of them was worse but you're not comparing apples to apples. Houle was wholly unqualified for the position he was given. He had never worked in the front office of a hockey club before in any capacity. He was an ex-hockey player turned beer salesman. He should never have been put in that position and I'm not sure he even wanted it. He was just a loyal soldier who was asked to do something and tried his best to do it, all the while being under an unspoken mandate to cut costs. And let's be honest: Houle wasn't really the one with final responsibility. Ronald Corey was the de facto GM. Houle was merely his meat puppet to be used as a shield with the media for decisions he was making in the shadows.

Bergevin, on the other hand has (on paper at least) the requisite qualifications to be considered for a job such as this. He isn't required to cut costs nor does he have a meddlesome club President like Corey to deal with. He is large and in charge and everything he does is something he chooses to do and, supposedly, is qualified to do. So the fact that the results of his machinations are being compared at all to someone like Houle, who was completely and utterly out of his depth, is all the proof you need to realize that he is far worse than Houle could ever be.