Injury Report: Horcoff Sidelined with Broken Knuckle (Update: Practicing with team)

[The Big Unit]

The Oilers could NOT have bought out Shawn Horcoff after the lockout ended (like Redden and Gomez).

The new rule for immediate buyouts specifically stated that the players permission was required for the immediate buyouts and Horcoff never would have given that permission.

So, the only options for Horcoff were to sit him for the year or play him.

Any discussion of buying him out after the lockout ended is not plausible and shouldn't even be debated.

That's not totally correct. Horcoff would have had to clear waivers and if he did he would have to accept the buy out or the Oilers could loan to another team (likely in Europe or the AHL) and his cap hit would be gone. This is similar to what Chicago did to Cristobal Huet.

 

[McDNicks17]

That's not totally correct. Horcoff would have had to clear waivers and if he did he would have to accept the buy out or the Oilers could loan to another team (likely in Europe or the AHL) and his cap hit would be gone. This is similar to what Chicago did to Cristobal Huet.

Except you can't bury contracts in the minors/Europe under the new CBA.

 

[cyril*]

That's not totally correct. Horcoff would have had to clear waivers and if he did he would have to accept the buy out or the Oilers could loan to another team (likely in Europe or the AHL) and his cap hit would be gone. This is similar to what Chicago did to Cristobal Huet.

Those rules were changed in the new CBA. "Loaning" players to another league does not change the cap hit. Teams are allowed to save $900,000 on the cap hit, but everything above still counts.

And Horcoff would not have had to accept the buyout. In the summer he will (if that happens) but prior to the season starting he would have had to give permission. The NHLPA wanted this included in the accelerated buyout rule to prevent an influx of UFA players hitting the market right before the season. Gomez and Redden were unique because their options were 1. Not play or 2. Get bought out. Of course they took the second option.

And as much as you may dislike Horcoff, the Oil were NEVER going to pay him to sit at home. He is definitely overpaid, but still the top face off man on the team.

 

[Dorian2]

Joanne Ireland ‏@jirelandEJ
Doesn't sound like #Oilers Shawn Horcoff will require surgery to repair broken knuckle. Expectation is that it will be at least a month.

So what exactly do they do for a surgery on a broken knuckle? Can he get some steel knuckles put in as a replacement and become a goon too?

Wolverine knuckles would be cool.

 

[The Big Unit]

Nobody is trading a big proven nhl center with any skill for Gags, Hemmer, PRV, or any of our prospects. If you want that guy it will cost you one of the 5. Or prospects and our first round pick. I applaud Tambo for not being willing to "give up what it takes".Maybe it would be worth it in a year or 2 if we are a real cup threat but not now. We still have time to develop our own.

This is exactly what i'm advocating. It isn't necessary to wait until we're a cup threat to make moves that make us better and address the team's needs. IMO making the playoffs this year will do more for the development of the big 5 than another year of missing the playoffs and going for it later. I agree that we still have time to make a big move but the longer we wait the less time we have the young guys on ELCs.

 

[The Big Unit]

Those rules were changed in the new CBA. "Loaning" players to another league does not change the cap hit. Teams are allowed to save $900,000 on the cap hit, but everything above still counts.

And Horcoff would not have had to accept the buyout. In the summer he will (if that happens) but prior to the season starting he would have had to give permission. The NHLPA wanted this included in the accelerated buyout rule to prevent an influx of UFA players hitting the market right before the season. Gomez and Redden were unique because their options were 1. Not play or 2. Get bought out. Of course they took the second option.

And as much as you may dislike Horcoff, the Oil were NEVER going to pay him to sit at home. He is definitely overpaid, but still the top face off man on the team.

I never saw a single source that said loaning a player won't change the cap hit after this season. I looked for one for just that reason back in January. Nothing addressed loaning a player directly, it only addressed buying a player out.

 

[McDNicks17]

I never saw a single source that said loaning a player won't change the cap hit after this season. I looked for one for just that reason back in January. Nothing addressed loaning a player directly, it only addressed buying a player out.

It's in there.

Anyone over $900k who isn't on your roster counts against the cap no matter where they are.

 

[misfit]

Wolverine knuckles would be cool.

He needs to get himself a set of these:

 

[cyril*]

I never saw a single source that said loaning a player won't change the cap hit after this season. I looked for one for just that reason back in January. Nothing addressed loaning a player directly, it only addressed buying a player out.

CapGeek has the details. Money paid to a player outside of the NHL counts against the salary cap. The example they use is the AHL but Europe applies as well. This was put in to prevent teams from "burying" contracts in the future.

BURIED CONTRACTS (Wade Redden Rule)

Money paid to players outside of the NHL counts against the cap.

A one-way contract counts against the cap as follows:

cap hit – [ minimum salary + $375,000 ]

Example: If Wade Redden plays in the minors in 2012-13, he counts as follows.

$6.5M – [ $525,000 + $375,000 ] = $5.6M

http://www.capgeek.com/faq/new-cba-details.php

The cap savings change as the minimum salary increases. For this season it would be $900,000 saving.

 

[The Big Unit]

CapGeek has the details. Money paid to a player outside of the NHL counts against the salary cap. The example they use is the AHL but Europe applies as well. This was put in to prevent teams from "burying" contracts in the future.



http://www.capgeek.com/faq/new-cba-details.php

The cap savings change as the minimum salary increases. For this season it would be $900,000 saving.

It's in there.

Anyone over $900k who isn't on your roster counts against the cap no matter where they are.

I was under the impression that if a player declined a buyout he could still be loaned and the cap hit would count this season only but since it was the player's own choice to decline the team wouldn't be penalized after this season. That way it still would be in the player's best interest to accept a compliance buy out and look for a job elsewhere. Thanks for the info guys I'll man up and eat my words.

 

[The Nuge]

He needs to get himself a set of these:

Can't make em too obvious. Still gotta keep em subtle so they look normal, but its like getting hit by a bat

 

[Gret99zky]

C'mon Horc, plan ahead next time.

 

[Replacement*]

This must be the timely annual, "well now it sucks again to be an Oiler" related injury.

Whats the over/under on how many games Horc ever plays in a year?

Can't say I'm broke up about it though. I kind of look at it as an expensive annual buyout.


How the hell does a Horcoff get a knuckle injury? Dragging loot to the bank?

 

[Fourier]

That's not totally correct. Horcoff would have had to clear waivers and if he did he would have to accept the buy out or the Oilers could loan to another team (likely in Europe or the AHL) and his cap hit would be gone. This is similar to what Chicago did to Cristobal Huet.

Horcoff has a NMC this year. There was no option to send him anywhere this year anyway.

 

[The Big Unit]

Horcoff has a NMC this year. There was no option to send him anywhere this year anyway.

In the hypothetical situation that a player's team says to him they're going to buy him out and makes it public do you think the player stays out of spite? That'd be a very awkward position for Horcoff, or anyone for that matter, to put himself in because it's not like they'd be looking to trade him and he's declining a trade to a particular market. It'd be like, "we don't want you anymore, please clean out your locker". Don't give me this argument about no options because it doesn't hold water, you can't seriously believe the man doesn't have enough pride to accept a buy out if he's no longer wanted.

Now I totally get it that they do want him here and it's quite possible he won't be bought out at all. I understand that part, I just disagree with it. Just because the Oilers organization decides something it doesn't make it the right decision. Daryl Katz must have thought it'd be smart to deliver a veiled threat that he'd move the Oilers to Seattle if he didn't get his way in arena negotiations.........it backfired just like many other decisions of the Oilers organization the last few years.

 

[Fourier]

In the hypothetical situation that a player's team says to him they're going to buy him out and makes it public do you think the player stays out of spite? That'd be a very awkward position for Horcoff, or anyone for that matter, to put himself in because it's not like they'd be looking to trade him and he's declining a trade to a particular market. It'd be like, "we don't want you anymore, please clean out your locker". Don't give me this argument about no options because it doesn't hold water, you can't seriously believe the man doesn't have enough pride to accept a buy out if he's no longer wanted.

Now I totally get it that they do want him here and it's quite possible he won't be bought out at all. I understand that part, I just disagree with it. Just because the Oilers organization decides something it doesn't make it the right decision. Daryl Katz must have thought it'd be smart to deliver a veiled threat that he'd move the Oilers to Seattle if he didn't get his way in arena negotiations.........it backfired just like many other decisions of the Oilers organization the last few years.

The response I made was to your comment that they could simply move him to the AHL or Europe and shed his cap hit. As others have pointed out you can no longer do that under the new CBA. But even if you could his NMC would have made this impossible because he would not have agreed to it. A buyout or a trade to a different NHL team would have been much more likely to be something he would accept.

So you know I do not think that buying out Horcoff at some point is an unreasonable move. I think it is less likely this off season, but that it may be much more likely after next season. In fact I hope by then that they have options that make him far more expendable.

 

[fuswald]

Guess this is just another Horcoff bashing thread. Waste of a read. Delete delete delete.

 

[Canovin]

He should be ready for playoffs. Maybe there was a blockage in his knuckles prevented him from scoring. Resurgence of 2006 Horc

 

[The Big Unit]

The response I made was to yor comment that they could simply move him to the AHL or Europe and shed his cap hit. As others have pointed out you can no longer do that under the new CBA. But even if you could his NMC would have made this impossible because he would not have agreed to it. A buyout or a trade to a different NHL team would have been much more likely to be something he would accept.

So you know I do not think that buying out Horcoff at some point is an unreasonable move. I think it is less likely this off season, but that it may be much more likely after next season. In fact I hope by then that they have options that make him far more expendable.

If you want to get technical I only mentioned loaning him out to another team's AHL affiliate (not OKC) or to Europe if he wouldn't accept a buy out. I never mention anywhere that you can just loan him and shed the cap hit without him first declining a buy out. I'm aware you can't bury a contract in your minor league affiliate but I was under the impression loaning a player to another team's AHL affiliate or a European team would shed the cap hit after this season if the player declined a buy out (essentially this is a player choosing to refuse a buy out from a team that no longer wants him which goes against his own interests, why should the team be further penalized?). I didn't find any information that addressed loaning players, only buy outs. I clearly state this in previous posts.

In this scenario a NMC is a moot point because he'd basically be choosing to sit at home.

 

[Chooch]

I highly doubt our Captain will be bought out. If the Oilers were planning to buy him out at some point, i doubt he would have remained Captain this season.

 

[fuswald]

I highly doubt our Captain will be bought out. If the Oilers were planning to buy him out at some point, i doubt he would have remained Captain this season.

This

 

[Fourier]

If you want to get technical I only mentioned loaning him out to another team's AHL affiliate (not OKC) or to Europe if he wouldn't accept a buy out. I never mention anywhere that you can just loan him and shed the cap hit without him first declining a buy out. I'm aware you can't bury a contract in your minor league affiliate but I was under the impression loaning a player to another team's AHL affiliate or a European team would shed the cap hit after this season if the player declined a buy out (essentially this is a player choosing to refuse a buy out from a team that no longer wants him which goes against his own interests, why should the team be further penalized?). I didn't find any information that addressed loaning players, only buy outs. I clearly state this in previous posts.

In this scenario a NMC is a moot point because he'd basically be choosing to sit at home.

Next offseason he cannot decline a buyout. The team has this option. And as of the end of this year his NMC turns into a limited NTC. But in any case, there is no way to lend him anywhere to shed his cap hit completely.

 

[misfit]

Next offseason he cannot decline a buyout. The team has this option. And as of the end of this year his NMC turns into a limited NTC. But in any case, there is no way to lend him anywhere to shed his cap hit completely.

I doubt he's bought out next offseason. Though I also think it's all but guaranteed the following year.

 

[joestevens29]

Gene Principe ‏@GenePrincipe
Shawn Horcoff in equipment and about to practice with the Oilers for the first time since he broke his knuckle.

 

[s7ark]

Gene Principe ‏@GenePrincipe
Shawn Horcoff in equipment and about to practice with the Oilers for the first time since he broke his knuckle.

That's good news. I hope he's back soon. He may not be worth his contract, but he's still a valuable player for us to have.