Injury Report: Horcoff Sidelined with Broken Knuckle (Update: Practicing with team)

[The Big Unit]

What situation? Last I checked he will be back and if they do choose so they can buy him out during the summer. Although if he continues to play the way he has been he won't be bought out.

I understand he'll likely be back this season but I'm not going to speculate on how long "long term" means in this case because we don't know the severity of the injury. I was referring to a situation where he sustains an injury and we can't buy him out. I don't care how good he has been performing lately because the body of work over the life of the contract has been abysmal and frankly, it's about time he did something to earn what he's being paid. Anyway we slice it, he's still an overpaid 3rd liner who hurts our cap situation till the contract is off the books and Tambellini blew a golden opportunity to buy him out before this season and replace him with somebody cheaper.

 

[Gord]

We need someone who's a good penalty killer and face off guy and there's a few of those around the league who don't cost $5.5M a year. It doesn't necessarily have to be Shawn Horcoff. If our GM was paying attention to his team's needs for the past few seasons we might have found an adequate replacement for him. I pay attention just fine I don't need any of your bitter attitude.

IATL wasn't being bitter towards you in this thread. he was just stating a simple fact. If you bought out Horcoff, I don't think there would be anyone Tambo could have signed as a free agent that would have been an improvement.

looking at the centre position you say the oilers just need a good penalty killer and faceoff guy. so do most of the other teams. If they were that easy to get without giving up too much, you'd think Tambo would have got someone other than Belanger in the past 3 years. (or in my view, Tambo sits on his hands and doesn't bother to get a useful player via trade as he'd rather wait for the "rebuild" to magically happen)

either way.

I wish the Oilers would have kept Stoll & Brodziak, actually. Then we wouldn't be having this conversation. I wonder if it's coincidence that soon after the oilers gutted their centre postion, they started driving into the gutter.

 

[Meanashell11]

This actually just proved the point we were debating about a few weeks ago. I'm not happy he got injured and I never hoped he would get injured. I'm upset they didn't buy him out when they had the chance so this situation wouldn't happen in the first place. Also, IIRC you were the one who said the chances Horcoff sustaining an injury would be very small.

I think you may be surprised that they dont just line up to buy him out. He is very well liked by the owner and the coaches respect what he does on the ice even if the "fans" dont. There was no way he was being bought out before this season and its a push at best he gets bought out at all. And our PK is going to really suck now, we will certainly get the opportunity to see what he contributes there.

 

[CornKicker]

I think you may be surprised that they dont just line up to buy him out. He is very well liked by the owner and the coaches respect what he does on the ice even if the "fans" dont. There was no way he was being bought out before this season and its a push at best he gets bought out at all. And our PK is going to really suck now, we will certainly get the opportunity to see what he contributes there.

all the smack horcoff took in teh off season was wiped out when he showed up this year and played his role. Sure he is overpaid but he fills a need and is good as a 3rd line C. oiler fans issue with him was that he wasnt a #1 C getting paid as a #1. it seems to have morphed into this everyone hates horc which isnt true. buying him out would be idiodic imo unless we traded for a dubinsky or broziak type #3

 

[The Big Unit]

IATL wasn't being bitter towards you in this thread. he was just stating a simple fact. If you bought out Horcoff, I don't think there would be anyone Tambo could have signed as a free agent that would have been an improvement.

looking at the centre position you say the oilers just need a good penalty killer and faceoff guy. so do most of the other teams. If they were that easy to get without giving up too much, you'd think Tambo would have got someone other than Belanger in the past 3 years. (or in my view, Tambo sits on his hands and doesn't bother to get a useful player via trade as he'd rather wait for the "rebuild" to magically happen)

either way.

I wish the Oilers would have kept Stoll & Brodziak, actually. Then we wouldn't be having this conversation. I wonder if it's coincidence that soon after the oilers gutted their centre postion, they started driving into the gutter.

I edited the post when I realized what he meant.

I do believe Tambellini sat on his hands and I absolutely am advocating making an over payment to get somebody via trade. We're past the point of stocking the cupboard, it's time to use draft picks and prospects to help the big club compete. Jason Arnott was available and before he failed a physical with the Rangers it would've been nice to know the Oilers at least tried calling his agent to see if he was interested in coming back here.

As for Stoll and Brodziak, there's no way to tell how good they'd be had they remained Oilers, same goes for Greene. It's just speculation that they'd have turned out as good as they are now.

 

[Fourier]

I understand he'll likely be back this season but I'm not going to speculate on how long "long term" means in this case because we don't know the severity of the injury. I was referring to a situation where he sustains an injury and we can't buy him out. I don't care how good he has been performing lately because the body of work over the life of the contract has been abysmal and frankly, it's about time he did something to earn what he's being paid. Anyway we slice it, he's still an overpaid 3rd liner who hurts our cap situation till the contract is off the books and Tambellini blew a golden opportunity to buy him out before this season and replace him with somebody cheaper.

The whole point is that such injuries are actually very rare. Especially if you recognize that the Oilers do not really need his cap space next year, So in reality the risk is that he will have two such injuries at exactly the wrong time of year and that both will be only severe enough so that he is not healthy during the buyout period but is healthy during the next season.

A broken knuckle even if it required surgery would not prevent the Oilers from buying him out as he would be cleared before the buyout period.

And even if the Oilers did miss both amnesty periods, they still have the option to trade him and eat a small amount of salary.

As IATL says, at this point he is worth enough to the team on the ice that the risk you quote is not a significant factor.

 

[molsonmuscle360]

I understand he'll likely be back this season but I'm not going to speculate on how long "long term" means in this case because we don't know the severity of the injury. I was referring to a situation where he sustains an injury and we can't buy him out. I don't care how good he has been performing lately because the body of work over the life of the contract has been abysmal and frankly, it's about time he did something to earn what he's being paid. Anyway we slice it, he's still an overpaid 3rd liner who hurts our cap situation till the contract is off the books and Tambellini blew a golden opportunity to buy him out before this season and replace him with somebody cheaper.

We have a huge amount of cap space right now, Horcoff is not hurting that situation whatsoever. He's a very solid third line center, which he has been playing this year, not like his usual first line roles that past coaches were handing him. Yes, he's overpaid, but so are many other people in the league. If he comes back and sucks it up the rest of the year we can buy him out. But right now he is one of the reasons our PK has been so highly rated.

If we would have bought him out, he'd probably be in Vancouver right now, tearing us apart whenever we were on the powerplay.

 

[The Big Unit]

I think you may be surprised that they dont just line up to buy him out. He is very well liked by the owner and the coaches respect what he does on the ice even if the "fans" dont. There was no way he was being bought out before this season and its a push at best he gets bought out at all. And our PK is going to really suck now, we will certainly get the opportunity to see what he contributes there.

Horcoff doesn't deserve a break from the fans because he's played 7 good games in the last 3 seasons. I certainly don't buy the argument that Horcoff's presence in the line up alone negatively affects our PK to the point that it's going to suck now. You're definitely right that we're going to see what it's like without his contribution and there likely will be a drop off but not free fall. At the same time we should have confidence that the coaching staff have drawn up an adequate PK system regardless of who is in the line up and our goalie keeps playing well that we can navigate through any injury bug because that's what good teams do.

all the smack horcoff took in teh off season was wiped out when he showed up this year and played his role. Sure he is overpaid but he fills a need and is good as a 3rd line C. oiler fans issue with him was that he wasnt a #1 C getting paid as a #1. it seems to have morphed into this everyone hates horc which isnt true. buying him out would be idiodic imo unless we traded for a dubinsky or broziak type #3

Those who criticize Horcoff usually say that we need to replace him and we've got all kinds of suggestions. It's not that we can't find a replacement, actually it's what meanashell11 said, the Oilers brass, coaching staff and owner like him so they're not going to even bother looking for somebody else. That's what upsets fans who don't want Horcoff on the team.

 

[Tarus]

Horcoff already has missed a couple of games, and the PK did fine. That success has more to do with Dubnyk playing well than anything Horcoff contributes, contributions that actually can be replaced by any number of players on the roster. It would actually be nice if his replacement was someone who knows what a bodycheck is, but the Oilers don't like those types of players apparently.

The Oilers also need a faceoff man with or without Horcoff in the lineup. The Oilers were getting decimated in the circle last night, and Horcoff was just as bad as the kids before he was knocked out with the injury, if not worse given his supposed experience. What really hurts here is Belanger's injury, as he actually is a consistently good faceoff man over his career.

People are just flat out overdramatizing Horcoff's loss and value to the roster. They went to war in SJ against the league's best team without him, and lost a tough one in Colorado where it was the offense couldn't get anything done. Depth is an issue, but the Oilers have needed to address that issue with or without Horcoff in the lineup for 4 years.

 

[czar99]

Sad thing is after the lockout during the buy out period people were saying buy out Horcoff. And I was saying that would be silly we need some to win face offs or we were screwed. And someone I don't remember who for sure says to me that you don't need to win face offs to win games. We'll soon see who was right.

 

[ekcut]

How have we been without Horcoff in the lineup this year and in seasons past?

But ya... Buy him out when we don't even need the cap space.

Rocket surgeons everywhere!

 

[Stainsy]

I wish the Oilers would have kept Stoll actually. Then we wouldn't be having this conversation. I wonder if it's coincidence that soon after the oilers gutted their centre postion, they started driving into the gutter.

Yeah, I was never comfortable with trading Stoll, and then letter Reasoner walk. The Oilers have struggled badly in the dot since. Now were down our two best guys, so much for alot of possession off the FO. In the NHL, this makes you a last place team fast.

 

[Stoneman89]

Horcoff out for 4 weeks you say? Damm..... Just when he was ready to claim back his #1 centre position!

 

[Seedling]

That's odd. I was under the impression Horcoff's hands were made of stone.

Post of the season contender here.

 

[harpoon]

Post of the season contender here.

I agree. Funny stuff Neilio.

I hope Horc heals up quickly. Given the way Krueger has deployed Horc this year, and since I'm not paying his salary, I have no complaints about having him on the team. He's a very useful PK guy.

 

[Seedling]

I agree. Funny stuff Neilio.

I hope Horc heals up quickly. Given the way Krueger has deployed Horc this year, and since I'm not paying his salary, I have no complaints about having him on the team. He's a very useful PK guy.

I never thought I would ever say that this team needs Horcoff.

 

[tiger_80]

2 to 4 weeks I'd think

2 weeks is being incredibly optimistic, so probably 3 weeks for an NHL player.

Yes, i'd say it would take at least 3-4 weeks, if no bones were broken in his hand that is.

 

[McVespa99]

All I'm saying is we should have bought him out when we had the chance 3 weeks ago.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=415279

All Im saying is we need someone who can take a faceoff a lot more than we need cap space. Horc is overpaid granted but who cares. We dont need the cap space and he is a good third line center. Who are you going to replace him with? Some mythical ufa out there? Some really great big center that another team is willing to trade for junk? Get real already posters.

 

[molsonmuscle360]

Yeah, I was never comfortable with trading Stoll, and then letter Reasoner walk. The Oilers have struggled badly in the dot since. Now were down our two best guys, so much for alot of possession off the FO. In the NHL, this makes you a last place team fast.

I always thought there was a reason there though that they got rid of Stoll, Greene and Torres all around the same time. They were all pretty much best friends, and you'd always see them out together. They seemed like pretty hard partyers but hey, pretty much every hockey player goes through that phase from what I've encountered.

 

[The Big Unit]

All Im saying is we need someone who can take a faceoff a lot more than we need cap space. Horc is overpaid granted but who cares. We dont need the cap space and he is a good third line center. Who are you going to replace him with? Some mythical ufa out there? Some really great big center that another team is willing to trade for junk? Get real already posters.

Why does it have to be for junk? The Oilers have some prospects and draft picks that have value. Trade that value for a roster player. I personally believe the reason we aren't better is because Tambellini isn't willing to "lose a trade" in value to fill a need. We have enough prospects already, he can find a team willing to bite and send us "some really great big center", I suspect Tambellini's not willing to give up what it takes to get that player.

 

[thadd]

why? if he goes on LTIR his caphit frees up. not sure what buyout has anything to do with this..

He's worried that horcoff will be out so long that we wont be able to buy him out without it counting against the cap in the summer.

Can't say i blame him.

 

[Sojourn]

Let's try to keep the discussion polite, hmm?

 

[cyril*]

The Oilers could NOT have bought out Shawn Horcoff after the lockout ended (like Redden and Gomez).

The new rule for immediate buyouts specifically stated that the players permission was required for the immediate buyouts and Horcoff never would have given that permission.

So, the only options for Horcoff were to sit him for the year or play him.

Any discussion of buying him out after the lockout ended is not plausible and shouldn't even be debated.

 

[McVespa99]

Why does it have to be for junk? The Oilers have some prospects and draft picks that have value. Trade that value for a roster player. I personally believe the reason we aren't better is because Tambellini isn't willing to "lose a trade" in value to fill a need. We have enough prospects already, he can find a team willing to bite and send us "some really great big center", I suspect Tambellini's not willing to give up what it takes to get that player.

Nobody is trading a big proven nhl center with any skill for Gags, Hemmer, PRV, or any of our prospects. If you want that guy it will cost you one of the 5. Or prospects and our first round pick. I applaud Tambo for not being willing to "give up what it takes".Maybe it would be worth it in a year or 2 if we are a real cup threat but not now. We still have time to develop our own.

 

[McGoMcD]

Let's try to keep the discussion polite, hmm?

**** that!!!