Honesty: we can’t make any conclusions about this team based on the regular season

Zybalto

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Dec 28, 2012
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The north division is a joke.

I dont think any of the divisions are jokes. I think they are remarkably balanced which is why they were changed for the bubble year to be as such and if there is a truly "weaker" division, it would have to be the west where they only have 3 competitive teams. I mean, EVERYONE had the same three teams at the top of the division in the West at the start and guess what.....its turning out that way. In the same way, the East is probably the slightly strongest division but not by any real margin. The crazy schedule also has some teams playing/below their records right now so its tough to get a read on teams which complicates things.

The whole crapping on the North thing feels like real propaganda against the Leafs most of the time and it only grew louder once the Leafs got more dominant. Do you ever hear of how the Canadian division is an offensive powerhouse and therefor the strongest division?....nope....it has to be that its awful defensively and the weakest. Both of the stats for these are tied together though and theres no real way of knowing until the final four I guess.

I'd rather not entertain this argument though as its an unprovable argument....and unprovable arguments are always a sign of a horribly weak argument. In the meantime, we can all watch the games and see for ourselves the quality of hockey on display and, from all the games I have watched, the North sure doesnt look any weaker than the other divisions. For the Leafs, the Matthews/Marner combo look next level and McDavid is an absolute two-way monster for the Oilers this year. Pretty sure they would be working their magic against anyone.
 
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Mess

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Given the apparent weakness of the Canadian Division, nothing less than a final 4 appearance will be seen as success to me.

Conclusion:

With 4 of the 7 CDN teams guaranteed to make the playoffs, 2 guaranteed a spot in the 2nd round and 1 X CDN team guaranteed to make it the 3rd round of the Stanley Cup playoffs from this Div. the window is wide open.

The pandemic and realignment has created the greatest opportunity for the Leafs to compete for the Stanley Cup since 1967.

Since we're dominating the CDN teams we will only need to beat 2 of the 24 USA teams to do so. We're never going to get a better chance to hoist the Cup, this with a team that hasn't advanced beyond the 1st round in 16 years. :crossfing

I'm confident this Leafs team can beat anyone of these CDN teams in a best of 7 series = final 4 appearance as the floor on expectations and Cup as the ceiling. IMO
 
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Notsince67

Papi and the Lamplighters
Apr 27, 2018
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My hope is luck hits us huge this year ... we win North which we should as we are BEST team in north ... then let's hope we avoid Bruins ... play Avs in semis then Tampa beats Bruins and it is Tampa v Leafs in final ... a little harder if we draw Tampa in semis but there is a chance there ... da Bruins is only team I hope we can avoid in semis as their style is not a good matchup for us
If the leafs choke, it will be early. I they can get as far as other teams outside the division, they have a good chance
 
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Zybalto

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Dec 28, 2012
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Last year when we played the full NHL and you remove the CDN teams 14 games and 18 points from the equation it leaves 63 points in 56 games or 0.5625 PTS% [= 92 point pace on full season].

So if you remove the stronger USA teams and only play the weaker CDN teams then yes we're beating up on them more than last year. In fact its so good this year @ .798 PTS% = 128 point pace on a full season = 4th best season All-time in NHL history. [Toronto's All-time best is 105 points]

So unless one believes this is a team that should be ranked among the best all-time, then context and quality of competition need to be factored into the analysis.

Case in point : Ottawa (31st in GA), Vancouver (30th) and Edmonton (27th) so 3 of the bottom 5 teams in worst goals against in the entire NHL all reside in the CDN Div including the bottom 2 worst overall. That's why almost all the top 10 NHL goal scorers reside in the CDN Div due to this factor.

Honestly, our Leafs are by far the best team in the weakest Div in the NHL, and performing well against a lower QofC that should see them coast into the playoffs.

Worst teams for Goals against/60 this year:

(Ill try to include Edmonton)

22. Oilers
23. Wings
24. Flyers
25. Pens
26. Jackets
27. Caps
28. Preds
29. Sharks
30. Canucks
31. Sens

Cant just go flat Goals against with the North playing so many games. Are the bottom 2 teams in the North? Yea....but the gulf between all the divisions in goals against/team average isnt as bad as you make it out. I think I might look at last years divisions....
 
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Zybalto

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Dec 28, 2012
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It beats me how you compare one division to another when they have no interlocking games. There's no data to compare.

Yea, Its pretty much a propaganda point to praise/crap on teams at the moment. I've even been trying to stick to breakdowns within the North but keep getting pulled back in sometimes heh.
 

TheProspector

Registered User
Oct 18, 2007
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Never can, bro.

But just remind yourself of this: we have Joe Thornton (82 point pace), Jason Spezza (50 point pace) and John Tavares (73 point pace) on the Toronto Maple Leafs.

And that doesn't include the best goal scorer presently in the league, or his linemate Mitch Marner on a 130 point pace. Or Nylander on a 60 point pace. Or Morgan Rielly on a 70 point pace.

I hate to tell you, but the Leafs are f***in good and loaded with talented. Only thing that shoots us down is spotty goaltending.
 

Fogelhund

Registered User
Sep 15, 2007
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Case in point : Ottawa (31st in GA), Vancouver (30th) and Edmonton (27th) so 3 of the bottom 5 teams in worst goals against in the entire NHL all reside in the CDN Div including the bottom 2 worst overall. That's why almost all the top 10 NHL goal scorers reside in the CDN Div due to this factor.

Honestly, our Leafs are by far the best team in the weakest Div in the NHL, and performing well against a lower QofC that should see them coast into the playoffs.

We have no current proof, that this division doesn't contain the best offensive players and teams, hence the GA. Is it the weakest division? Who knows.. maybe? Other divisions look weak too. Maybe we are just having a great season, and beating teams up.

No matter what division you are in though, the regular season doesn't mean much. It's just qualifications for the playoffs, when things really matter.

One conclusion that we can absolutely reach, so far we are the best team in the North Division though.
 
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RogerR

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Feb 2, 2021
1,546
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If the Leafs didn't get an excuse for having the hardest path in prior years; then, there shouldn't be an excuse against them now. This fanbase needs to stop being so deflating. The team can sense it. Our environment at games suck because of it (in prior years). You can change the players; but, the loser attitude persists. Time to change the attitude in the city. Be happy with what this team is icing this year. Believe in the team you are following. Otherwise, why even waste your time?
This. Leafs over the past 4 years have overall had the toughest playoff matchups as any team
 
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Nineteen67

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Dec 12, 2017
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I dont think any of the divisions are jokes. I think they are remarkably balanced which is why they were changed for the bubble year to be as such and if there is a truly "weaker" division, it would have to be the west where they only have 3 competitive teams. I mean, EVERYONE had the same three teams at the top of the division in the West at the start and guess what.....its turning out that way. In the same way, the East is probably the slightly strongest division but not by any real margin. The crazy schedule also has some teams playing/below their records right now so its tough to get a read on teams which complicates things.

The whole crapping on the North thing feels like real propaganda against the Leafs most of the time and it only grew louder once the Leafs got more dominant. Do you ever hear of how the Canadian division is an offensive powerhouse and therefor the strongest division?....nope....it has to be that its awful defensively and the weakest. Both of the stats for these are tied together though and theres no real way of knowing until the final four I guess.

I'd rather not entertain this argument though as its an unprovable argument....and unprovable arguments are always a sign of a horribly weak argument. In the meantime, we can all watch the games and see for ourselves the quality of hockey on display and, from all the games I have watched, the North sure doesnt look any weaker than the other divisions. For the Leafs, the Matthews/Marner combo look next level and McDavid is an absolute two-way monster for the Oilers this year. Pretty sure they would be working their magic against anyone.
Outside of a handful of players the North is a joke division.
 
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Ryan Michaels

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Mar 21, 2017
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It's a bad division but winning every night is hard in today's NHL regardless of your quality of competition. If they run away with the division and Matthews and Marner continue to destroy the league it's something we should be happy about. Yes there are some considerations to give to the circumstances but it's not as significant as some think.

Also people overrate some of these other divisions like crazy, the Central is the only one that stands out as particularly good, the West has three good teams and 5 awful ones, and the East is muddled by the misconception that the Penguins or the Caps are still the teams to beat and that last year's hipster pick the Flyers are a great team.
 
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Ryan Michaels

Registered User
Mar 21, 2017
4,275
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Dunno. Watching M&M fight McDavid for the scoring title from the same division tells me something.....

Yeah it takes extraordinary leaps in logic to think Matthews and Marner are just leeching points in a poor division when they're keeping pace with last year's Hart winner pretty well and are virtually tied with McDavid for even strength points. Watch out guys they might be pretty good.
 

Clark4Ever

What we do in hockey echoes in eternity...
Oct 10, 2010
11,583
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I have a feeling if we were 9-8-2 right now we wouldn't be hearing that the regular season doesn't mean anything.

This.

Would we have the same record at this point in a normal season? Probably not.

Are we the only team in the NHL with the benefit of playing multiple teams with an inferior record? Hell no.

In a normal season, I suspect we would have fewer wins at this point, but I am confident we would still be battling the likes of Boston, Tampa Bay and Florida for one of the top spots in the division.
 

Mess

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
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Worst teams for Goals against/60 this year:

(Ill try to include Edmonton)

22. Oilers
23. Wings
24. Flyers
25. Pens
26. Jackets
27. Caps
28. Preds
29. Sharks
30. Canucks
31. Sens

Cant just go flat Goals against with the North playing so many games. Are the bottom 2 teams in the North? Yea....but the gulf between all the divisions in goals against/team average isnt as bad as you make it out. I think I might look at last years divisions....

Just look at the NHL standings :)

2020-21 NHL Standings | ESPN

You have to look at actual games played, and NHL points earned by teams and GF and GA because that is what actually happened YTD.

Leafs points in the standings and points/goals by Matthews Marner are based on actual results and not /60 when you balance the league out. IMO
 

Sypher04

Registered User
Jan 20, 2011
11,525
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It's a bad division but winning every night is hard in today's NHL regardless of your quality of competition. If they run away with the division and Matthews and Marner continue to destroy the league it's something we should be happy about. Yes there are some considerations to give to the circumstances but it's not as significant as some think.

Also people overrate some of these other divisions like crazy, the Central is the only one that stands out as particularly good, the West has three good teams and 5 awful ones, and the East is muddled by the misconception that the Penguins or the Caps are still the teams to beat and that last year's hipster pick the Flyers are a great team.

Honestly, even the central has some real dumpster fires in Detroit and Nashville. Columbus is a very medicore team at this point. And Chicago isn't very good either
 

BlueBaron

Registered User
May 29, 2006
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Yeah it takes extraordinary leaps in logic to think Matthews and Marner are just leeching points in a poor division when they're keeping pace with last year's Hart winner pretty well and are virtually tied with McDavid for even strength points. Watch out guys they might be pretty good.
Totally. Every time I hear "blah blah North Division" I ask if we are to believe McD and Dra are having an off year, they usually shut up.
 

Fogelhund

Registered User
Sep 15, 2007
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The only tough division, is the East division. The West division in particular is weak.
 

Zybalto

Registered User
Dec 28, 2012
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Just look at the NHL standings :)

2020-21 NHL Standings | ESPN

You have to look at actual games played, and NHL points earned by teams and GF and GA because that is what actually happened YTD.

Leafs points in the standings and points/goals by Matthews Marner are based on actual results and not /60 when you balance the league out. IMO

I do /60 as it is the easiest way to actually show goals against in a fair way. You can do goals/game as well and get basically the same results. The points thing I understand a little as you still have to earn the points to put them in the bank (even then points% is the way to go IMO)

When it comes to scoring goals, I dont think Tampa is outside the top ten just because they've played less games just like Ottawa doesnt have a better offence than the Avs or Vegas because they've played more.

Here is what you want me to believe are teams goal scoring rankings:

12th: Tampa
17th: Calgary (tied)
17th: Ottawa (tied)
19th: Vegas
21st: Avs
26th: Dallas

Heres where goals/60 tells us they really are offensively:

4th: Tampa
9th: Dallas
12th: Avs
15th: Vegas
22nd: Calgary
27th: Ottawa

I think my way of looking at things is MUCH closer to reality as its unfolding though.
 

banks

Only got 5/16
Aug 29, 2019
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NHL Power Rankings

Leafs #1 in the league (NBC Sports)
NHL Power Rankings: Maple Leafs climb to top spot

leafs #1 in the league (The Score)
NHL Power Rankings: Every team's biggest surprise

Leafs #4 in the league (Money Puck)
NHL Power Rankings -MoneyPuck NHL Power Rankings

Leafs #1 in the league (The Hockey Guy)


Leafs #1 in the league (Odds Shark)
NHL Hockey - Power Rankings

Leafs #1 in the league (TSN)
Leafs rebound from loss to Sens to take top spot in Power Rankings


But let's not rush to conclude we have a good team here.


tenor.gif
 
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Zybalto

Registered User
Dec 28, 2012
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The only tough division, is the East division. The West division in particular is weak.

Said it from the start:

East
Central/North
West

...and even then the gulf isnt that huge. Pretty good balance of good and bad in each division really considering the circumstances. Could have been a lot worse in the North a few years ago. Could you imagine if this hit in 2015?

Canadian team rankings 2015-2016:

19th: Ottawa
22nd: Montreal
25th: Winnipeg
26th: Calgary
28th: Vancouver
29th: Edmonton
30th: Toronto
 

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