Confirmed with Link: Holy ****, a trade. Mason, Armia, a 2019 7th, and a 2020 4th to MTL for... Simon Bourque.

kelsier

Registered User
Aug 17, 2013
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yes chevy traded a would be 1st rounder named armia to get rid of mason contract instead of including say someone expendable like Kulikov or Perreault . this may be hard to believe but Kulikov and Perreault are probably not getting you a 1st but miles ahead of armia in value. everything buffalo fans said about armia were true on the day he left as they were on the day we picked him up, disappointing and leaves you wanting more. I find this interesting what posters like you and others say about little is word for word what blues posters were saying about stastny. should we have believed them. players go thru bad streaks doesn't mean they are washed up. I love button and how brutally honest he is said with the speed of the vegas team stastny couldn't handle it and was no where as near as impactful and the jets should be careful what they offer him. little hasn't lost any speed and is far from washed up. I think little will outscore stastny over the next 3 years.

He left you wanting more? Perhaps he was never put in the position to show nor produce more. Have you ever considered that? Armia disappointed you during his stay at the Jets, geez too bad. Well I suppose unless you are 30/30 forward from the 3rd or 4th line, no matter how you actually look on the ice. I mean after all even Laine was only ~40/30 last season averaging barely 16 minute a game.

Armia was fine most of the times and far better than the average Joe compared to other 3rd line wingers in the league. His possession skills will be missed as soon as the next begins when people realize there's a small vacuum there. The teams generally get rid of their older guys as opposed to younger players and I don't see this being any different. If I had to pick one out of 25yo Armia or 30yo Perreault I wouldn't even have to take a minute to think about that. I don't even bother to take the time to figure out how beyond the world you'd find more value for Perreault today if the two were compared. He probably wouldn't fetch you a 1st rounder at least. On that we can agree upon at least.

What's actually funny is that you basically just called 82 game season plus the games played in the playoffs, combining some 100 games all in all, just a "bad streak". Ha. Little was just awful throughout the season no matter who he played with and if you think he by some miracle makes a huge comeback I fear you're setting yourself up for a disappointment. It's not called an off-year nor a bad streak, but a decline. For some players it happens sooner than the others and seems Little has crossed his bridge. Besides even if he did, it's been 5 years since he had even a 60 point season despite of playing through that time either as a 1st or 2nd line center. That's not very flattering in today's NHL. Anyway Stastny was nearly twice the player as Little last season, yet Little is abound to outscore him come next few years? Okay. I suppose if Laine is handcuffed to him for some more years that could theoretically be possible, but that doesn't make Bryan Little the better player than Paul Stastny. It only means Laine is far better winger than almost anything Vegas can provide Stastny.
 

10Ducky10

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He left you wanting more? Perhaps he was never put in the position to show nor produce more. Have you ever considered that? Armia disappointed you during his stay at the Jets, geez too bad. Well I suppose unless you are 30/30 forward from the 3rd or 4th line, no matter how you actually look on the ice. I mean after all even Laine was only ~40/30 last season averaging barely 16 minute a game.

Armia was fine most of the times and far better than the average Joe compared to other 3rd line wingers in the league. His possession skills will be missed as soon as the next begins when people realize there's a small vacuum there. The teams generally get rid of their older guys as opposed to younger players and I don't see this being any different. If I had to pick one out of 25yo Armia or 30yo Perreault I wouldn't even have to take a minute to think about that. I don't even bother to take the time to figure out how beyond the world you'd find more value for Perreault today if the two were compared. He probably wouldn't fetch you a 1st rounder at least. On that we can agree upon at least.

What's actually funny is that you basically just called 82 game season plus the games played in the playoffs, combining some 100 games all in all, just a "bad streak". Ha. Little was just awful throughout the season no matter who he played with and if you think he by some miracle makes a huge comeback I fear you're setting yourself up for a disappointment. It's not called an off-year nor a bad streak, but a decline. For some players it happens sooner than the others and seems Little has crossed his bridge. Besides even if he did, it's been 5 years since he had even a 60 point season despite of playing through that time either as a 1st or 2nd line center. That's not very flattering in today's NHL. Anyway Stastny was nearly twice the player as Little last season, yet Little is abound to outscore him come next few years? Okay. I suppose if Laine is handcuffed to him for some more years that could theoretically be possible, but that doesn't make Bryan Little the better player than Paul Stastny. It only means Laine is far better winger than almost anything Vegas can provide Stastny.
and you were so and you were so happy when they resigned Little...
 

ffh

Registered User
Jul 16, 2016
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He left you wanting more? Perhaps he was never put in the position to show nor produce more. Have you ever considered that? Armia disappointed you during his stay at the Jets, geez too bad. Well I suppose unless you are 30/30 forward from the 3rd or 4th line, no matter how you actually look on the ice. I mean after all even Laine was only ~40/30 last season averaging barely 16 minute a game.

Armia was fine most of the times and far better than the average Joe compared to other 3rd line wingers in the league. His possession skills will be missed as soon as the next begins when people realize there's a small vacuum there. The teams generally get rid of their older guys as opposed to younger players and I don't see this being any different. If I had to pick one out of 25yo Armia or 30yo Perreault I wouldn't even have to take a minute to think about that. I don't even bother to take the time to figure out how beyond the world you'd find more value for Perreault today if the two were compared. He probably wouldn't fetch you a 1st rounder at least. On that we can agree upon at least.

What's actually funny is that you basically just called 82 game season plus the games played in the playoffs, combining some 100 games all in all, just a "bad streak". Ha. Little was just awful throughout the season no matter who he played with and if you think he by some miracle makes a huge comeback I fear you're setting yourself up for a disappointment. It's not called an off-year nor a bad streak, but a decline. For some players it happens sooner than the others and seems Little has crossed his bridge. Besides even if he did, it's been 5 years since he had even a 60 point season despite of playing through that time either as a 1st or 2nd line center. That's not very flattering in today's NHL. Anyway Stastny was nearly twice the player as Little last season, yet Little is abound to outscore him come next few years? Okay. I suppose if Laine is handcuffed to him for some more years that could theoretically be possible, but that doesn't make Bryan Little the better player than Paul Stastny. It only means Laine is far better winger than almost anything Vegas can provide Stastny.
So to summarize if someone plays higher up in the line up or on the same line as a Finn they are to blame why the Finn is further down the line up and why the line might not be good. Not to mention the coach is to blame for how he chooses to play the finns and where he chooses to play them in the line up. Does that cover it all.
 

raideralex99

Whiteout Is Coming.
Dec 18, 2015
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He left you wanting more? Perhaps he was never put in the position to show nor produce more. Have you ever considered that? Armia disappointed you during his stay at the Jets, geez too bad. Well I suppose unless you are 30/30 forward from the 3rd or 4th line, no matter how you actually look on the ice. I mean after all even Laine was only ~40/30 last season averaging barely 16 minute a game.

Armia was fine most of the times and far better than the average Joe compared to other 3rd line wingers in the league. His possession skills will be missed as soon as the next begins when people realize there's a small vacuum there. The teams generally get rid of their older guys as opposed to younger players and I don't see this being any different. If I had to pick one out of 25yo Armia or 30yo Perreault I wouldn't even have to take a minute to think about that. I don't even bother to take the time to figure out how beyond the world you'd find more value for Perreault today if the two were compared. He probably wouldn't fetch you a 1st rounder at least. On that we can agree upon at least.

What's actually funny is that you basically just called 82 game season plus the games played in the playoffs, combining some 100 games all in all, just a "bad streak". Ha. Little was just awful throughout the season no matter who he played with and if you think he by some miracle makes a huge comeback I fear you're setting yourself up for a disappointment. It's not called an off-year nor a bad streak, but a decline. For some players it happens sooner than the others and seems Little has crossed his bridge. Besides even if he did, it's been 5 years since he had even a 60 point season despite of playing through that time either as a 1st or 2nd line center. That's not very flattering in today's NHL. Anyway Stastny was nearly twice the player as Little last season, yet Little is abound to outscore him come next few years? Okay. I suppose if Laine is handcuffed to him for some more years that could theoretically be possible, but that doesn't make Bryan Little the better player than Paul Stastny. It only means Laine is far better winger than almost anything Vegas can provide Stastny.
Stastny and Little have put up similar numbers but dollar for dollar who has better value.
Stastny $6.5 million
Little $5.3 million
It's a no-brainer who to keep.
 

Howard Chuck

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Stastny and Little have put up similar numbers but dollar for dollar who has better value.
Stastny $6.5 million
Little $5.3 million
It's a no-brainer who to keep.

Not to mention that Little is probably the easiest going, most accommodating player on the team. Certainly a Jet and a team player.
 

tbcwpg

Moderator
Jan 25, 2011
16,052
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If you played hockey and you were stuck in a team loaded with other wingers with a higher payroll and getting more regular ice time. Would you like to stay with a lower salary you are likely to get where you are, or go elsewhere where you'd most likely get more $ and ice time on top of that? The better question in my opinion is why would he want to stay? By the way it's not as simple as saying "there are six better players than <insert a name>". I think Armia would have easily potted 57 points had he played practically the entire season with Scheifele and Wheelers. Where as Connor would probably had spent the season in AHL rather than being placed in a defensive role in the bottom six. That is if we inverted the roles and it's just an example. Nevermind you actually think the team looks as good as it did 17-18 with Stastny and Armia on board? Wow, m'kay.

So, speculation on what Armia wanted or thought about his role on the team. Connor was in the conversation for rookie of the year, and he's not known for his defence. Armia proved to be pretty responsible defensively but nowhere near Connor in offensive capability.

The team only had Stastny for around 20 games in the regular season. They were a top 5 team without him. Little has shown he can be better than last year so I'm not banking on him repeating last year. I think Roslovic and Armia net out with more potential offensive upside.

Should the Jets adapt to modern hockey, try to balance and utilize as many lines as possible to spread the offensive wealth, that certainly wouldn't hurt in keeping the core intact. Since despite the recent losses, they still look like a playoff team and players tend to prefer a playoff team over bottom feeder. However as long as P.Mo is around I think we'll see a one line team where three guys get to enjoy prime time, while keeping the rest fighting for whatever leftovers.

The Jets have shown that they have more than 3 scoring threats so the "offensive wealth" is already spread around. You can't shut the Jets down by just stopping one line, so I don't buy your Maurice theory.

What happened was Chevy basically gave up two first round picks for one playoff run. One for signing Stastny to play half a year here. The second by not moving Armia sooner and instead letting him join the playoff race. A signed Armia (with a reasonable contract) would have fetched a late first rounder no doubt about it as opposed to actually having to not only hand him over for free, but future prospects along. That's a hefty price tag for one playoff run I would say especially since they came short at the very end. Also correct me if wrong but didn't he also just make a deal with the Vegas to protect Armia & Lowry in the expansion draft? Yeah, someone had to go, but would you rather keep for example Kulikov instead of Armia when there are the likes of Niku and Poolman knocking on the gates? Or even keeping aging Perreault over another winger who's just entering his prime? However, like I said, he probably didn't want to stay anyway. No matter the necessities, it doeasn't make this look any less brutal. I suppose in the coming seasons we'll know better how good Chevy really is what comes down to asset/cap management. Now he just had his first taste.

Still saying that Armia would've returned a first where this has not shown to be the case with similar players in the past. No point attempting to re-sign him midseason if he's just going to be traded. This hasn't cost the Jets another first rounder for one playoff run, it allows them to sign more valuable players to make future playoff runs.

Kulikov and Perreault would've affected the price the Jets would have to pay to dump the Mason contract negatively, ie. It would've cost more than a 4th and a 7th.

I think the Little contract just wiped out whatever space the Jets had left to maneuver (imagine if they could've handed those millions to Stastny instead, who's by ease the superior player). Followed by the Mason contract that now backfired horridly. This team looks far less contending than it did before the 17-18 playoffs started and there's been some screw ups along the way which's impacts are yet to be discovered. To be honest with Maurice behind the bench I'm not sure what to expect from next season.

Maurice coached the team to 114 points, 52 wins, 2nd overall in the season, and the WCF. I'm not concerned about coaching going into next season.

Little was signed well before Stastny was even discussed as an option. They would've spent that money elsewhere. Your proposal that Little's contract has now prevented us from signing Stastny is like saying drafting Laine has now prevented us from drafting Hughes. It's not like Little's money would've just gone unspent.
 

mcpw

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Jan 13, 2015
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Is this jets third trade with montreal?

The fourth. Don't forget that blockbuster at the 2016 draft that gave us Croix Evingson.

(Jets trade their 2016 7th round pick to Habs for their 2017 7th round pick)
 

JetsFan815

Registered User
Jan 16, 2012
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people listen ...i dont Think armia putting much effort here at Winnipegs . why should he at this teratments going on and on. low minites, low paying. i dont Think at end at vegas going forward to putting Winnipeg to holidays he had really anything for it. i dont Think he really tried for his Life here for saving his own team, Winnipeg. i wouldnt...at his situations. what does cup mean for players who are unhappy at current team? not much i say. lets get the heck outa here i Think he Think all season. some say he up and down. well....no surprising here. he sometimes wants to show so he can get contract elsewhere of course....cant be putting up nothing all nights along. allright?

something more about stastny. : supergood he didnt stay here. why? beacause he didnt do much here of course. i say ; weak player who not can play at C role. he like a winger in my Eye.

how can people say here he is so good at second line? he creates nothing at C he only dumps pucks at bst to Deep zound for hunting for his linemates. this second line catasorphy. as said ...Ehlers should not play with laine, Ehlers only sakting with puck til opponent pick up puck. and stastny i say as said no C in eral meaning. small, weak, slow etc. no playmaker , no passing skill and forth.

hey people....listen. last ten games regular season laine 1 goal. stastny not getting able to pass. at playoff say 20 more games or so? laine 3-4 goals? . it didnt work. big C hole in this line. getting stuck at own zoun.

what is coach doing to laines career? having him with speedy dano and some kind of small wingers at C. laine not getting to having fun playing hockey here. dano taking puck and keeping it with his boyish skating til they it take away while laine skates besuides him and watches and Waits. and C throwing Deep pucks to hunt on. what is this? nothing of course. total nightmares for superstar laine who not having not being able to have good linemates for 2 whole seasons now!

is next season Another 60-70 Point season stucked in a b line? last season armia could have been given 2nd line C role. BIG, STRONG, SKILLED armia but no. instead he moved to other team while small, nontalented players given benefits here. of course bad for laine too. i somehow hard to belieft anything else for change will happen next season. laine to be given small amount of icetimes hidden in non working ehlersline next season also.

i really dont like this Ehlers. i dont like his hockey. i Think .. MY NION OF COURSE....i Think he sucks at whole hockey game. nion = OPINION

i only hope laine plays from nowon at first line with BIG MINITS, AND BIG PLAYESR. NO MORE BULL**** HE MUST LEARN to play first etc. there is no such. he is a TOTALDOMINATION PLAYERS AND GOING ONLY FORWARD PLAYING THE BIGGEST LINE WITH BIGGEST PLAYERS othervise he can start showing noninterest and lazying. and he should. it is up to coach. the fans should all this know. selfconfiness and Points to scoreboards will reach sky only by playing 1st line and with best players. Ehlers is not worthy to laine in 1st line. at ATARIgame one thing but at hockey no more stupidy. c mon coach!

i was banned til one day ago. they say i get angry here. if this is not stil readables soon then i got Another pervert ban. please remember my Word. i have read rules and my Word is my opinion and opinion is for rights to have. thank you and amen

by the way they loose cup beacause of coach. if laine had letted to MONSTER OUT then cup would be winning. but caoch did his . no chang still? lame. NUMERO UNO PRIORITY at this team should now be to have laine MONSTER OUT. build it and he will come. there is a 2 line whole at line 3 and 4 now. armia made this team . AND THIS WHILE NOT PUTTING MUCH EFFORT TO IT !

Sir avgard hockeyprofessor

Please also post on the Habs board this fall and take them to task about their usage of Kotkaniemi and Armia,
 

DeepFrickinValue

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May 14, 2015
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The fourth. Don't forget that blockbuster at the 2016 draft that gave us Croix Evingson.

(Jets trade their 2016 7th round pick to Habs for their 2017 7th round pick)
kind of funny as chevy has only made a handful of trades and most are with the habs. maybe softening up bergeron for the chevy death punch ala sabres.
 

mcpw

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Jan 13, 2015
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kind of funny as chevy has only made a handful of trades and most are with the habs. maybe softening up bergeron for the chevy death punch ala sabres.

Actually, a handful with the Habs. Couldn't remember that Chevy traded up for Serville at the 2011 draft.
 

robertocarlos

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Sep 19, 2014
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So to summarize if someone plays higher up in the line up or on the same line as a Finn they are to blame why the Finn is further down the line up and why the line might not be good. Not to mention the coach is to blame for how he chooses to play the finns and where he chooses to play them in the line up. Does that cover it all.

Keep Laine out of this. :)
 

Channelcat

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Feb 8, 2013
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I would assume that Armia and Mason both asked for trades. There must not be much love for Armia out there though..........this was an unfortunate trade.
 

Gm0ney

Unicorns salient
Oct 12, 2011
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I would assume that Armia and Mason both asked for trades. There must not be much love for Armia out there though..........this was an unfortunate trade.
Do you also assume the 4th and 7th round picks that went to Montreal in that deal asked for a trade?
 
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Nate070

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So to summarize if someone plays higher up in the line up or on the same line as a Finn they are to blame why the Finn is further down the line up and why the line might not be good. Not to mention the coach is to blame for how he chooses to play the finns and where he chooses to play them in the line up. Does that cover it all.
Feeling cranky today are we? No positive things to say about anything?
 

kelsier

Registered User
Aug 17, 2013
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So, speculation on what Armia wanted or thought about his role on the team. Connor was in the conversation for rookie of the year, and he's not known for his defence. Armia proved to be pretty responsible defensively but nowhere near Connor in offensive capability.

The team only had Stastny for around 20 games in the regular season. They were a top 5 team without him. Little has shown he can be better than last year so I'm not banking on him repeating last year. I think Roslovic and Armia net out with more potential offensive upside.

No, it's plain common sense what any or every player would want. When you have the skill and you are stuck in the lower lines, I'm sure that's not where you see yourself for the rest of your career. Let alone with significantly lower earnings. Well hello, who did Connor play again? You're basically lining up two guys and comparing them offensively like they had similar circumstances and opportunities to present their cases. Connor had I would say top 10 center and top 5 winger (league-wise) aside him all year long. Who did Armia have again and how many looks did he get in the top six all in all?

That's not to say Connor isn't a good player and extremely capable looking long term. But one cannot escape the fact that he got a lot of things handed over on the silver plate and without the Scheifele and Wheelers there's a larger chance he would have spend vast proportions of the season in the AHL as opposed to playing entire season in the NHL.

The Jets have shown that they have more than 3 scoring threats so the "offensive wealth" is already spread around. You can't shut the Jets down by just stopping one line, so I don't buy your Maurice theory.

Erm, I suppose you didn't follow the playoffs that thoroughly then. P.Mo started burning the first line in the first period basically at every single game, until they were quite visibly just exhaust and worn out going into the third. If you failed to notice then I'm not sure how specifically you've been paying attention but even during the regular season when the ESL was in absolute tear, I think the top line was seeing a bit more ice time despite of not being as effective. So no, the Jets have had a clear 1st line, 2nd, 3rd and 4th line as opposed to utilizing 1a & 1b or even 1a & 1b & 1c kind of a setup which also could have been valid options due to depth. Maurice is old school this way and not very adept to changing or trying new things.

Still saying that Armia would've returned a first where this has not shown to be the case with similar players in the past. No point attempting to re-sign him midseason if he's just going to be traded. This hasn't cost the Jets another first rounder for one playoff run, it allows them to sign more valuable players to make future playoff runs.

Kulikov and Perreault would've affected the price the Jets would have to pay to dump the Mason contract negatively, ie. It would've cost more than a 4th and a 7th.

Was Kulikov a necessity signing in the begin with? I talked about that earlier. There's Niku and there's Poolman and there's basically 6 slots available. I'm not sure if they even had to sign him. Perreault still has a value (that by the way isn't negative). He can slot almost everywhere and 4,1m AAV for a player like that isn't much. A deal around him and Mason would not have worked with Montreal but then again, it's not what I claimed in the begin with (just compared his value to Armia). There have been plenty of good players who have returned mid to late first rounders. For an average mid- to late first rounder to even become NHL regular is like throwing a stone to a long distance target while keeping your fingers crossed. Sometimes you hit and more often than not you don't. He would have returned a first rounder in different circumstances. If you don't want to believe that then by all means don't.

Maurice coached the team to 114 points, 52 wins, 2nd overall in the season, and the WCF. I'm not concerned about coaching going into next season.

Little was signed well before Stastny was even discussed as an option. They would've spent that money elsewhere. Your proposal that Little's contract has now prevented us from signing Stastny is like saying drafting Laine has now prevented us from drafting Hughes. It's not like Little's money would've just gone unspent.

Maurice was practically steering a team full stars with no glaring weaknesses and did well especially in the regular season what comes to wins and points in general. When you can slot a player like Armia into 3rd or 4th line that already tells quite a lot. Pretty much any coach in the league could have done what he did so I'm not all that impressed. In fact most might have done even better. For a coach that could not get his second line going for ~half a season, there's simply no way of telling if more wins were washed away due to all the key pieces that weren't in sync or not clicking. The Jets had 2nd most goals out of all the teams in the league and I believe they were top 5 in this category already after 16-17 so the offensive group was one of the best in the league. If you look at the defence, there were the likes of Trouba, Byfuglien, Morrisery, Myers, Kulikov and Enström. How many organizations can top that? I'd say not many. Then lastly, Hellebuyck was finally able to figure out the puzzle and provided All-Star level of goalkeeper. So what we are looking at is elite offence, elite defence and elite goalkeeping. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to lead a team like that to playoffs or even win the conference (although P.Mo didn't quite get there). He had a good season as a coach, but nothing spectacular and it still doesn't take away the fact that he's the record holder of the most losses in the history of the NHL. You might be confident of his abilities, but I'm not.

Oh I'm well aware when Little was signed. I suppose they didn't want to risk him going into the UFA market and gambled to make an early signing. He was still under his old contract until the end of 17-18. Today it definitely looks like the gamble isn't paying off. In fact if they had waited until the end of the 17-18 they probably could have picked between Stastny or Little and I don't think even loyalty would have saved Little after last season in that case. I don't really blame Chev for the signing, but it definitely looks like the gamble isn't paying off at the moment. Little at his current form is a 3rd line center and his salary is far greater compared to what he brings on the table. Nonetheless, the statement of "they would have spent the money elsewhere" is rather strange say the least. I'll toss such non-sense in the same category of a ~hundred game sample size "being just a bad streak" or "Little outscoring Stastny in the coming seasons" etc. It's not like a cap team is just wasting or throwing dollars away out of sheer luxury.
 
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ffh

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Jul 16, 2016
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Feeling cranky today are we? No positive things to say about anything?
The guy I was responding to just wrote a manifesto on how bad little was and how dumb our coach is. Pointing out he was wrong.
 

tbcwpg

Moderator
Jan 25, 2011
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No, it's plain common sense what any or every player would want. When you have the skill and you are stuck in the lower lines, I'm sure that's not where you see yourself for the rest of your career. Let alone with significantly lower earnings. Well hello, who did Connor play again? You're basically lining up two guys and comparing them offensively like they had similar circumstances and opportunities to present their cases. Connor had I would say top 10 center and top 5 winger (league-wise) aside him all year long. Who did Armia have again and how many looks did he get in the top six all in all?

Armia didn't really earn any looks in the top 6. I don't think every bottom 6 player in the league wants out either. I'm sure Armia is thrilled to be going from a good to great team to the Montreal tire fire too. He'll get more opportunities in Montreal for sure, but I don't think the Jets have lost a future superstar here.

Erm, I suppose you didn't follow the playoffs that thoroughly then. P.Mo started burning the first line in the first period basically at every single game, until they were quite visibly just exhaust and worn out going into the third. If you failed to notice then I'm not sure how specifically you've been paying attention but even during the regular season when the ESL was in absolute tear, I think the top line was seeing a bit more ice time despite of not being as effective. So no, the Jets have had a clear 1st line, 2nd, 3rd and 4th line as opposed to utilizing 1a & 1b or even 1a & 1b & 1c kind of a setup which also could have been valid options due to depth. Maurice is old school this way and not very adept to changing or trying new things.

There's a clear 3rd and 4th in the playoffs but the top 2 lines didn't have a lot of difference in TOI. It's about 2 and a half minutes between them, if you account for PP time.

Was Kulikov a necessity signing in the begin with? I talked about that earlier. There's Niku and there's Poolman and there's basically 6 slots available. I'm not sure if they even had to sign him. Perreault still has a value (that by the way isn't negative). He can slot almost everywhere and 4,1m AAV for a player like that isn't much. A deal around him and Mason would not have worked with Montreal but then again, it's not what I claimed in the begin with (just compared his value to Armia). There have been plenty of good players who have returned mid to late first rounders. For an average mid- to late first rounder to even become NHL regular is like throwing a stone to a long distance target while keeping your fingers crossed. Sometimes you hit and more often than not you don't. He would have returned a first rounder in different circumstances. If you don't want to believe that then by all means don't.

Kulikov was probably necessary, or someone like him. You're talking about two guys who had no NHL experience to be thrown into the top 6 right away when they both needed some AHL time.

As for Armia's trade value, players like Armia get drafted in the mid to late first but they don't get traded for first round picks. His value was in no way a 1st - look at who went for a first at the deadline and who has been traded for firsts at the draft, and Armia is not in that category.

Maurice was practically steering a team full stars with no glaring weaknesses and did well especially in the regular season what comes to wins and points in general. When you can slot a player like Armia into 3rd or 4th line that already tells quite a lot. Pretty much any coach in the league could have done what he did so I'm not all that impressed. In fact most might have done even better. For a coach that could not get his second line going for ~half a season, there's simply no way of telling if more wins were washed away due to all the key pieces that weren't in sync or not clicking. The Jets had 2nd most goals out of all the teams in the league and I believe they were top 5 in this category already after 16-17 so the offensive group was one of the best in the league. If you look at the defence, there were the likes of Trouba, Byfuglien, Morrisery, Myers, Kulikov and Enström. How many organizations can top that? I'd say not many. Then lastly, Hellebuyck was finally able to figure out the puzzle and provided All-Star level of goalkeeper. So what we are looking at is elite offence, elite defence and elite goalkeeping. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to lead a team like that to playoffs or even win the conference (although P.Mo didn't quite get there). He had a good season as a coach, but nothing spectacular and it still doesn't take away the fact that he's the record holder of the most losses in the history of the NHL. You might be confident of his abilities, but I'm not.

Most losses means a long NHL career behind the bench. That's a poor argument to hide behind.

You're right, there's no way of telling how many more wins the team could have had. So you just have a feeling that they could have.

Oh I'm well aware when Little was signed. I suppose they didn't want to risk him going into the UFA market and gambled to make an early signing. He was still under his old contract until the end of 17-18. Today it definitely looks like the gamble isn't paying off. In fact if they had waited until the end of the 17-18 they probably could have picked between Stastny or Little and I don't think even loyalty would have saved Little after last season in that case. I don't really blame Chev for the signing, but it definitely looks like the gamble isn't paying off at the moment. Little at his current form is a 3rd line center and his salary is far greater compared to what he brings on the table. Nonetheless, the statement of "they would have spent the money elsewhere" is rather strange say the least. I'll toss such non-sense in the same category of a ~hundred game sample size "being just a bad streak" or "Little outscoring Stastny in the coming seasons" etc. It's not like a cap team is just wasting or throwing dollars away out of sheer luxury.

You're right, I thought his contract started last year. They might have saved some money by waiting but there was no indication that he would've had the year he did last season. Plus there still isnt really anyone to take his place right now. Stastny is older than him, we'll see show it goes in Vegas. You said yourself that he couldn't get it going late in the playoffs with Ehlers and Laine, and he won't be playing with players at that level in Vegas.
 

kelsier

Registered User
Aug 17, 2013
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The guy I was responding to just wrote a manifesto on how bad little was and how dumb our coach is. Pointing out he was wrong.

Terribly sorry if I hurt your feelings.

That said, I'm not here to make friends and I never try to picture flowers on the table but instead talk about hockey & everything related exactly as I see them - both good and bad (everything doesn't always has to be great not even in the Winnipeg). At least I'm honest, you may agree or disagree with whatever and whenever.

Oh and I entirely missed your quote. So I'll reply to that now. I'm a huge fan of Laine but believe it or not I don't really care about Armia despite the nationality. I've just learned to respect him as a player after watching the last two seasons of the Jets. Of course I hope him all the best in the future and I do think that the team would have needed him in the long run, but still personally, I don't really care all that much how his career continues. So no, I didn't feel sorry for him being stuck so far in the feeding order. Meanwhile at the same time I was quite pissed about Laine playing waaayy too many 13-14 minute games and being forced to pair up with Little for ~half the last season just to see him go through the mud only to climb back up to surface again immediately after finally getting rid of him.

That's not on Little though, but on Maurice who decides who plays with who. If a coach is utterly incapable of making much needed chances after watching entirely dysfunctional line still at the 40th game mark, at some point you just have to wonder if there are any headlights on or if he's running with half circuits.
 

kelsier

Registered User
Aug 17, 2013
4,280
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Armia didn't really earn any looks in the top 6. I don't think every bottom 6 player in the league wants out either. I'm sure Armia is thrilled to be going from a good to great team to the Montreal tire fire too. He'll get more opportunities in Montreal for sure, but I don't think the Jets have lost a future superstar here.

I never said anything about being a superstar but he certainly should fit a second line role with ease. With forwards especially, consistency comes with ice time and responsibilities of which neither he really got to enjoy in Winnipeg. So it wasn't a surprise not seeing him being more productive. For that he never really even had the right line mates either.

There's a clear 3rd and 4th in the playoffs but the top 2 lines didn't have a lot of difference in TOI. It's about 2 and a half minutes between them, if you account for PP time.

2,5 minutes is still quite a lot. But yeah it was less apparent in the playoffs than in the regular season. Laine's TOI for instance dropped like what, 1,5 minute/game from 16-17 to 17-18 and why? Because he no longer had any role in the first line. So there was a vast separation between the two top lines and huge compared to rest. Unlike in many other NHL teams that are as deep.

Kulikov was probably necessary, or someone like him. You're talking about two guys who had no NHL experience to be thrown into the top 6 right away when they both needed some AHL time.

As for Armia's trade value, players like Armia get drafted in the mid to late first but they don't get traded for first round picks. His value was in no way a 1st - look at who went for a first at the deadline and who has been traded for firsts at the draft, and Armia is not in that category.

To my best knowledge both Poolman and Niku have already spent their time in the AHL. Kulikov wasn't a necessary signing, yet they signed him anyway. Bad business? Who knows, time will tell I suppose. I think he got too much regardless.

Second line wingers don't fetch mid to late first rounders? Right, maybe you need to go through some trades from the recent history and get your facts straight. He'll be second line forward in the Habs or if not the Habs then whatever organization he signs for before the season..

Most losses means a long NHL career behind the bench. That's a poor argument to hide behind.

You're right, there's no way of telling how many more wins the team could have had. So you just have a feeling that they could have.

Would you like to clarify what this particular title means then exactly? Has he been a successful coach up until today if you go through his history? Try reflect those results to other active coaches and come back with the verdict. I'm genuinely curious.

When your second line is not functioning for half the season, what does your common sense tell tell you regarding the "could have been's"?

You're right, I thought his contract started last year. They might have saved some money by waiting but there was no indication that he would've had the year he did last season. Plus there still isnt really anyone to take his place right now. Stastny is older than him, we'll see show it goes in Vegas. You said yourself that he couldn't get it going late in the playoffs with Ehlers and Laine, and he won't be playing with players at that level in Vegas.

I don't think I mentioned anything about Stastny, Laine and Ehlers at the playoffs. I thought Stastny played fine as his points indicate. Laine was ok (could have been better) and Ehlers just disappeared, which in turn hurt the other two. Otherwise Laine and Stastny definitely had some chemistry at least, which again is far more than you can say about Laine and Little (who didn't really raise his level in the playoffs either). I'm not sure if your referring to Little's point totals in the coming seasons, but as I already mentioned the only reason he could potentially outscore Stastny is by having better line mates. Although I'd really wish we wouldn't have to re-live the entire horrow show called ELL ever again. Nevertheless, knowing Maurice he probably hasn't learned a thing.
 
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