Post-Game Talk: Hollandaise

Drivesaitl

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Well we'll see obviously... I'm thinking Neal is a little old and creaky as well... don't know what his chances of having an 80 games season are.

Well its 2-0 now, and we're talking about somebody with 272 career goals, vs 82 goals, and somebody that has put up 10 20 or more goals seasons vs somebody that has put up outlier one..

Neal only missed scoring at least 20 goals once in his career, Chiasson only hit 20 once in his career.

Also Neal has played 63 or more games in all of the complete NHL seasons he has played. Even at 60 games he would be a virtual gimme in this bet.

Don't got to Vegas anytime soon. ;)
 
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nexttothemoon

and again...
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Well its 2-0 now, and we're talking about somebody with 272 career goals, vs 82 goals, and somebody that has put up 10 20 or more goals seasons vs somebody that has put up outlier one..

Neal only missed scoring at least 20 goals once in his career, Chiasson only hit 20 once in his career.

Also Neal has played 63 or more games in all of the complete NHL seasons he has played. Even at 60 games he would be a virtual gimme in this bet.

Don't got to Vegas anytime soon. ;)

Hey let's hope they both put up a solid season and it's a win for everyone here. :)
 
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SwedishFire

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Chaisson has always been a good bottom six player. Last season was an abnormally for him but it showed that he can be versatile when we need him.

Good in top 6 = The Leon effect.

Strange. I ind 20 goals like medium for a NHL player. Its not super great. Its a solid job done.
 

Aerrol

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Too many people put too much over emphasis on consistency.

If a guy scores 20 goals in 20 games and then goes stone cold for the next 60 games... that's exactly the same player that scores 1 goal every 4 games like clockwork.

They both help you win just as many games over the course of the season... and actually there's a benefit to the stone cold guy... you can get him the **** outta there by dropping his minutes when he's stone cold and put someone else in those minutes who might do better, where as with the consistency guy... you have to leave him in there because you know he gets his goal every 4 games or so... so there's no choice of going with another player that might be a little better/hotter, because that likely degrades "consistency guy" who needs his regular minutes to produce.

Ideally you have a few Chiasson's in the lineup throughout the season and roll with the players who are playing well and reduce the minutes of those who aren't... you know... reading your team and adjusting lines/minutes... what any good coach should be doing.

.... I have never seen someone try to spin consistency as a bad thing before in hockey. A+ for creativity D for content. It makes no sense to say a guy who consistently puts up 20g is worse than a guy who's done it once in a fairly long career on an insane hot streak with an unsustainable as hell shooting percentage. I have time for Chiasson but this argument is... Just bad lol.
 
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OnTheBrink

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.... I have never seen someone try to spin consistency as a bad thing before in hockey. A+ for creativity D for content. It makes no sense to say a guy who consistently puts up 20g is worse than a guy who's done it once in a fairly long career on an insane hot streak with an unsustainable as hell shooting percentage. I have time for Chiasson but this argument is... Just bad lol.

Don’t want to speak for OP but think you’re miss understanding him he’s not comparing Chiasson and Neal directly in his post, just saying a player who scores 20 goals for a team helps you the same, whether they score 20 in 20 games then 0 for the other 62 or 20 spread evenly throughout the 82 games, they still give you 20 GF and contribute to team wins the same.
 

CupofOil

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Well we'll see obviously... I'm thinking Neal is a little old and creaky as well... don't know what his chances of having an 80 game season are. My guess is also that he drifts down the lineup somewhat as the season rolls on because he's more of a defensive liability than some other options.

What other options?
Neal isn't budging from the top 6 unless he has a half season long slump or something like that. They brought him in to be a top 6 fixture and that's where he'll be until further notice.

Furthermore, the defensive liability thing is another reason why he won't play in the bottom 6. Tippett likes players to have specific roles and he likes his bottom 6 forwards to be defensive minded and/or be able to PK. It's part of the reason why Gagner is in Bakersfield.
 
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McShogun99

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Well its 2-0 now, and we're talking about somebody with 272 career goals, vs 82 goals, and somebody that has put up 10 20 or more goals seasons vs somebody that has put up outlier one..

Neal only missed scoring at least 20 goals once in his career, Chiasson only hit 20 once in his career.

Also Neal has played 63 or more games in all of the complete NHL seasons he has played. Even at 60 games he would be a virtual gimme in this bet.

Don't got to Vegas anytime soon. ;)

Our 1st unit PP should include our 5 best forwards and Neal is one of them. The downside is that Mcdavid, Draisaitl, RNH and Neal are all left shots which is the only reason to put in Chaisson over Neal. Chaisson most likely will never duplicate his goal totals from last season again but he's still a good player for our bottom six or to fill in for spot duty here and there.
 

Stoneman89

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Just for a little further proof of concept here.. last season in the first 30 games Chiasson played... he had 16 goals and the team had 39 points in their 1st 36 games by December 22nd which was about an 89 pt full season pace.

He was hot and helping the team win games.

Yes he cooled off and yes the team got fewer points in the final 46 games because of a decrease in secondary scoring... but obviously other secondary players needed to step up and contribute as well which didn't really happen.
He didn't cool off as much as getting moved off the top line.
 

nexttothemoon

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Don’t want to speak for OP but think you’re miss understanding him he’s not comparing Chiasson and Neal directly in his post, just saying a player who scores 20 goals for a team helps you the same, whether they score 20 in 20 games then 0 for the other 62 or 20 spread evenly throughout the 82 games, they still give you 20 GF and contribute to team wins the same.

Yes that's what I was saying.


The Chiasson vs Neal "debate" is another issue entirely... in fact it's not really an issue because I'd like them both to score big this year obviously... if both get 15-20 goals this team is golden because that means you likely have better depth scoring on this team and that's one necessary step closer to making the Oilers a playoff team.
 

nabob

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As long as the team keeps Chiasson in bottomsix assignments and if he's seen as a better bottomsix role player than the rest that we have.

Chiasson had 3 mths of outlier production in which he was shooting at an outlandish 25%. This being a career shooter of 12%. He got 16 of his goals in 31 games and then became Toby Letestu at EV.

People put too much stock on outlier flash in the pan moments. Chiasson will never have another stretch like that and in no means is a natural goal scorer. I'd far rather see gifted acquired talent like Neal, Jurco, Nygard take up those spots and PP assignments now. The team is more skilled now, it isn't a Chia team anymore where guys like Letestu and Chiasson are always on PP.

In terms of Draisaitl Occam's Razor deduction would have it that its mostly likely the great Draisaitl that got Leon going. Not some PTO walk on.

3 months is a rather large portion of the season to call it a “flash in the pan moment.” Fact is that he scored 20 last year and helped the team a lot more than he hurt it. Chiasson wasn’t on the PP to start the year, he earned his spot there. None of Nygard, Jurco, Granlund have earned the spot like Chiasson did last year. Kinda sad that you can’t give him credit where credit is due. I’m not attacking Drai at all when a I say that Chiasson got him going last year when Drai was slumping badly away from McDavid. I remember you being over the moon that Drai finally had a linemate that could produce.
 
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nabob

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Too many people put too much over emphasis on consistency.

If a guy scores 20 goals in 20 games and then goes stone cold for the next 60 games... that's exactly the same player that scores 1 goal every 4 games like clockwork.

They both help you win just as many games over the course of the season... and actually there's a benefit to the stone cold guy... you can get him the **** outta there by dropping his minutes when he's stone cold and put someone else in those minutes who might do better, where as with the consistency guy... you have to leave him in there because you know he gets his goal every 4 games or so... so there's no choice of going with another player that might be a little better/hotter, because that likely degrades "consistency guy" who needs his regular minutes to produce.

Ideally you have a few Chiasson's in the lineup throughout the season and roll with the players who are playing well and reduce the minutes of those who aren't... you know... reading your team and adjusting lines/minutes... what any good coach should be doing.

Yeah it’s like we can’t expect every player to be as consistent as Connor and Leon...especially guys making next to nothing like Chiasson was.
 

nabob

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Well its 2-0 now, and we're talking about somebody with 272 career goals, vs 82 goals, and somebody that has put up 10 20 or more goals seasons vs somebody that has put up outlier one..

Neal only missed scoring at least 20 goals once in his career, Chiasson only hit 20 once in his career.

Also Neal has played 63 or more games in all of the complete NHL seasons he has played. Even at 60 games he would be a virtual gimme in this bet.

Don't got to Vegas anytime soon. ;)

No one is actually making that argument though are they?
 

bone

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Good in top 6 = The Leon effect.

Strange. I ind 20 goals like medium for a NHL player. Its not super great. Its a solid job done.


Medium, eh. 122 guys out of 906 players scored 20 or more last season. Granted that include goalies and guys who only played a few games, but assuming 21 healthy skaters per roster at any given time, 122 out of 651 seems to be quite a bit above average. Not even half the players in the league get more than 10 goals.

20 goals is a good mark for a good NHL player.
 

nexttothemoon

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Neal vs Chiasson is a non debate... all I said is I think Neal has a higher chance of probably not playing a full season due to some creakiness in his body potentially leading to him playing less games than a full year.. and potentially he plays fewer games in the top 6 because of defensive issues in his game... but that's just speculation on my part and I'm not saying he's dogshit.

Again, I hope Chiasson and Neal both have solid seasons ahead because that helps the Oilers to the playoffs.

I'm actually very optimistic overall that this team IS a playoff team this year... 100+ pts is quite achievable by this team.
 
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PinSeeker

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Aug 22, 2005
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Good in top 6 = The Leon effect.

Strange. I ind 20 goals like medium for a NHL player. Its not super great. Its a solid job done.
Only 122 players scored 20 goals out of approx. 600 players who played a min of 500 minutes. If you score 20, you are in the top 20% of all goal scorers. So not at all medium, a 20 goal scorer is a really good player

EDIT: I see Bone caught it first. Well done
 
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Aerrol

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Don’t want to speak for OP but think you’re miss understanding him he’s not comparing Chiasson and Neal directly in his post, just saying a player who scores 20 goals for a team helps you the same, whether they score 20 in 20 games then 0 for the other 62 or 20 spread evenly throughout the 82 games, they still give you 20 GF and contribute to team wins the same.

Even so they're still not really equal. You can't predict when a guys getting hot. The goals still count but with a super streaky player you can't rely on them as much in a close game because who knows if the streak is starting or ending.

That said, I do agree with the general point that complaining about which games a goal is scored in is totally overrated.
 

SwedishFire

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Neal vs Chiasson is a non debate... all I said is I think Neal has a higher chance of probably not playing a full season due to some creakiness in his body potentially leading to him playing less games than a full year.. and potentially he plays fewer games in the top 6 because of defensive issues in his game... but that's just speculation on my part and I'm not saying he's dog****.

Again, I hope Chiasson and Neal both have solid seasons ahead because that helps the Oilers to the playoffs.

I'm actually very optimistic overall that this team IS a playoff team this year... 100+ pts is quite achievable by this team.

Everybody feels more stability behind their back. Holland has a proven strategy that works well, especially with a club with a culture of rushing young players. I think Oilers have a good chance at 100 pt. Depends by stability on the goalie side. Is Koskinen NHL material? Can he unload workload for Smith for at least 20 - 25 games? Its right on the edge here.

ANd I do think, no matter if Nealer scores a lot or not, this will be his only season here. So enjoy Neal while we can.

BUT, I do think Chiassons anomaly season is a pure product of Draisaitls IQ. Paired with Nuge, he didnt score a lot.
 

SwedishFire

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Only 122 players scored 20 goals out of approx. 600 players who played a min of 500 minutes. If you score 20, you are in the top 20% of all goal scorers. So not at all medium, a 20 goal scorer is a really good player

EDIT: I see Bone caught it first. Well done

Yes, quite good. But no more than that. OK, I have a high standard. But i count 30 goals as a good goalscorer. Less is an ordinary number. I was suprised by the low scoring, only 20% scored 20 goals.

Even if Reider didnt score last year, i feel bad for him. I really do think his injury in the beginning hampered him big time. Just look at pre season. He scored twice. He will score at least 10 goals. thanks Nicholson.
 

CornKicker

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Everybody feels more stability behind their back. Holland has a proven strategy that works well, especially with a club with a culture of rushing young players. I think Oilers have a good chance at 100 pt. Depends by stability on the goalie side. Is Koskinen NHL material? Can he unload workload for Smith for at least 20 - 25 games? Its right on the edge here.

ANd I do think, no matter if Nealer scores a lot or not, this will be his only season here. So enjoy Neal while we can.

BUT, I do think Chiassons anomaly season is a pure product of Draisaitls IQ. Paired with Nuge, he didnt score a lot.

he has 3 years left on his deal where is he going?
 
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SwedishFire

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he has 3 years left on his deal where is he going?

Away.'

Ok, jokes by side. He do have a pricetag of 6,5$m. And is longing for the cup probably. If he starts scoring, Holland probably will get trade purposals. Will se. I hope i like to play here, with the best(s) player(s) in the league. He got three playmakers that will create for him + Jurco, and a dozen hard workers, like Nygård and Kassian. He should like his role.
 

bone

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Yes, quite good. But no more than that. OK, I have a high standard. But i count 30 goals as a good goalscorer. Less is an ordinary number. I was suprised by the low scoring, only 20% scored 20 goals.

Even if Reider didnt score last year, i feel bad for him. I really do think his injury in the beginning hampered him big time. Just look at pre season. He scored twice. He will score at least 10 goals. thanks Nicholson.

I think if the statement had been that 20 goals is an average top 6 forward, the argument is reasonable. But less so that they are an average overall NHL player. 20 goals is a good season by most NHLer standards.
 

madmutter

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Yes, quite good. But no more than that. OK, I have a high standard. But i count 30 goals as a good goalscorer. Less is an ordinary number. I was suprised by the low scoring, only 20% scored 20 goals.

Even if Reider didnt score last year, i feel bad for him. I really do think his injury in the beginning hampered him big time. Just look at pre season. He scored twice. He will score at least 10 goals. thanks Nicholson.
There were 45 30 goal scorers last season. 30 goals isn't just good, it's basically an all star. You need to recalibrate your expectations.
 

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