Post-Game Talk: Hollandaise

[LaGu]

Maybe I’m not watching him closely enough but I always liked Chiasson because he does a lot of the little things right by my eye.

I have exactly the same impression, and it goes back to before his days as an Oiler which why I was happy when we signed him. Last year was a bonus, for me he is a good 3rd liner who can jump up on occassion without feeling out of place. A professional who does lots of things right.

 

[foshizzle]

View attachment 261547

That’s why.

yeah, he had a career first 30-40 games of the year then fell off the face of the planet.

 

[foshizzle]

I have exactly the same impression, and it goes back to before his days as an Oiler which why I was happy when we signed him. Last year was a bonus, for me he is a good 3rd liner who can jump up on occassion without feeling out of place. A professional who does lots of things right.

He doesn’t though. That’s why hasn’t been able to stick with a team and no team was rushing to sign him this year. Every year he is an inexpensive pickup, yet the team he is with never re-signs him.

 

[foshizzle]

Yeah dont get the sudden hate for Chiasson. Probably should have scored against the Nucks if not for a ludicrous toe save by Markstrom

It’s not a sudden hate, I just don’t think he is the player a lot of posters here think he is. I have the same sentiment as man of my Capitals fans friends and Flames friends do. Weak board player, never uses his size. He is a bigger Toby Peterson.

 

[McFlyingV]

I have exactly the same impression, and it goes back to before his days as an Oiler which why I was happy when we signed him. Last year was a bonus, for me he is a good 3rd liner who can jump up on occassion without feeling out of place. A professional who does lots of things right.

I also like Chiasson. They had to maybe slightly overpay him because of the 20 goal season he just had, but if he can give you 10-12 goals and 25P in the bottom 6 or a bit more than that with some PP and stints in the top 6 I won't be mad about his 2.1M cap hit. He does do a lot of good things out there.

 

[foshizzle]

They signed Chiasson because he was really good last year. He was out of the line up because of the flu. I suspect he gets back in and Khaira comes out

Edit: I hope that Sheahan is healthy soon so they can waive Cave

He was only good for a few months, then reverted to what he has always been.

 

[McFlyingV]

It’s not a sudden hate, I just don’t think he is the player a lot of posters here think he is. I have the same sentiment as man of my Capitals fans friends and Flames friends do. Weak board player, never uses his size. He is a bigger Toby Peterson.

Inconsistent sure, but never? He scored most of his goals last season by using his size and winning puck battles. He has enough skill and a pretty decent shot that he is still an effective bottom 6 player. Not an elite bottom 6er, but a useful one.

Hell, you can go back and watch the highlights from the Vancouver game and watch him make a power move to push off Edler on the PP to get himself open for a back door pass that Markstrom absolutely robbed him on after he got a pretty solid shot off considering the pass was in his feet.

 

[subnet]

I like Klefbom but he needs to get off the power play. Could he telegraph any more that he is going to pass to someone? He turns his entire body toward the intended player then passes the puck so everyone knows where the pass is going.

Not saying bring up Bouchard but one thing he is masterful at already is faking everyone out with what looks like a shot then turns into a tape to tape pass.

Need more of that. Nurse is even better on the power play than Klef. They could be keeping Nurse off to keep his points down thus making it better for contract negotiations.

This is exactly what I’ve thought for years. Do what’s ever the opposite of what it seems you are doing.

These guys ALL have skill. They know what they’d do themselves in a certain situation. If someone pretended to do something but did the opposite, they’d have something that worked.

For example, take a routine play, the D-man behind the net on his forehand, will circle and try to either bang it high off the glass or to an open man, if that exists. The other team knows this too so they are waiting for it.

If that D-man does something opposite that the other team doesn’t expect, like back-pass or to the middle or something opposite of what is typical, then it will work and mind blown hehe.

Everyone has skill so what’s the opposite of what you seem to be doing should actually work.

With another game, it would be like a hitter in baseball set up to hit to the opposite field, but then pulling the ball to the short side. No one sees it and mind blown . No one expects it and as a result, the hit is in the gap and the runner goes home, vs a force out at second base.

tldr: do the opposite of what you appear to be doing and it’ll work and you’ll score more goals and therefore win lol!

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

He was only good for a few months, then reverted to what he has always been.

Even at the attempt to write off his season, that "few months" was very productive and that's why he was signed.

Most players in the league produce like Chiasson. The that produce highly consistently are your McDavids and Draisaitls.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I have exactly the same impression, and it goes back to before his days as an Oiler which why I was happy when we signed him. Last year was a bonus, for me he is a good 3rd liner who can jump up on occassion without feeling out of place. A professional who does lots of things right.

These general comments never really help the dialog along.

Because its impossible to substantiate or refute such general wording, which essentially means nothing other than it being an expressed opinion.

On the last page I specifically critiqued Chiassons lack of bullwork when he is in topsix. On many shifts last season when he was getting primo minutes I felt our star players had to do more of the boardwork than Chiasson was doing. He's much less likely than Maroon or Kassian to be doing as much as the board battles and digging.

This has myriad effects. Sure Chiasson gets more goals because he's setting up shop in the slot while McD or Drai or both are fighting for the puck, but it exposes the latter two to injury, fatigue, targetting.

Theres no particular attribute of Chiasson, speed, or top skills, or work rate that lends Chiasson to be a valuable topsix addition. Kassian is immeasurably better because he has better on ice vision and skills, is faster, and much more likely to take on the physical support that is beneficial in the topline. Chiasson isn't really an ideal support player. Chiassons presence in topsix benefits him, its not clear it benefits the line he's on.

A 20 goal season is outlier. Trouble is when Chiasson isn't scoring its hard to see what his role is. He's not a strong defensive player, not strong in any particular area. I'm not at all saying punt him, but I sure don't want a return of him in PP or topsix play. he adds very little there due to his limited toolkit, and limited inclination to do the bullwork.

 

[Oilers in NS]

The Oilers are -23 Corsi 5v5 so far this year. Cave and Khaira are both -20.

Fix that 4th line please Hope Sheahan can shift out some turds. Might need to steal some talent from Bakersfield if that's not enough.

Cave and Khaira are both weak links

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

Even at the attempt to write off his season, that "few months" was very productive and that's why he was sign.

Most players in the league produce like Chiasson. The that produce highly consistently are your McDavids and draisaitls.

Exactly. That's how depth players work. Chiasson did his part last year. The problem wasn't him slowing down. The problem was that no other depth player stepped up when he did.

All of our depth players will have massive cold streaks but we also need them all to have hot streaks that take the pressure off our top 3 guys.

 

[missinthejets]

Chiasson is what he is, yeah he's inconsistent, but all depth players are with their scoring. He is a veteran who can occasionally bring some scoring but otherwise isn't totally useless. Expecting him to be more than depth is setting up for disappointment but he's clearly an NHL bottom 6 player.

 

[nabob]

Tippett not trusting Benning with literally a second of special teams play through the first two games has me even more worried for the already overworked top4.

I just don't see the value in a defenseman who plays the 175th most even strength minutes(and likely would have been closer to 185th without Larsson's injury) in the league and absolutely no special teams.

It gives me confidence in Tippett though!

 

[nabob]

These general comments never really help the dialog along.

Because its impossible to substantiate or refute such general wording, which essentially means nothing other than it being an expressed opinion.

On the last page I specifically critiqued Chiassons lack of bullwork when he is in topsix. On many shifts last season when he was getting primo minutes I felt our star players had to do more of the boardwork than Chiasson was doing. He's much less likely than Maroon or Kassian to be doing as much as the board battles and digging.

This has myriad effects. Sure Chiasson gets more goals because he's setting up shop in the slot while McD or Drai or both are fighting for the puck, but it exposes the latter two to injury, fatigue, targetting.

Theres no particular attribute of Chiasson, speed, or top skills, or work rate that lends Chiasson to be a valuable topsix addition. Kassian is immeasurably better because he has better on ice vision and skills, is faster, and much more likely to take on the physical support that is beneficial in the topline. Chiasson isn't really an ideal support player. Chiassons presence in topsix benefits him, its not clear it benefits the line he's on.

A 20 goal season is outlier. Trouble is when Chiasson isn't scoring its hard to see what his role is. He's not a strong defensive player, not strong in any particular area. I'm not at all saying punt him, but I sure don't want a return of him in PP or topsix play. he adds very little there due to his limited toolkit, and limited inclination to do the bullwork.

Seemed to me that when Draisaitl was struggling at EV last year it was Chiasson who got him going. He’s getting laid as a bottom 6 player, anything he can add above that is a bonus. He’s a player that even at his worst doesn’t really hurt the team. He doesn’t take stupid penalties and isn’t a liability in his own zone. But at his best he can score 20 goals. I’ll take that from a bottom six winger.

 

[McDrai]

Scum?... so if he was on the team what would you say?

Still scum, but our scum (See Mike Smith)

 

[Drivesaitl]

Seemed to me that when Draisaitl was struggling at EV last year it was Chiasson who got him going. He’s getting laid as a bottom 6 player, anything he can add above that is a bonus. He’s a player that even at his worst doesn’t really hurt the team. He doesn’t take stupid penalties and isn’t a liability in his own zone. But at his best he can score 20 goals. I’ll take that from a bottom six winger.

As long as the team keeps Chiasson in bottomsix assignments and if he's seen as a better bottomsix role player than the rest that we have.

Chiasson had 3 mths of outlier production in which he was shooting at an outlandish 25%. This being a career shooter of 12%. He got 16 of his goals in 31 games and then became Toby Letestu at EV.

People put too much stock on outlier flash in the pan moments. Chiasson will never have another stretch like that and in no means is a natural goal scorer. I'd far rather see gifted acquired talent like Neal, Jurco, Nygard take up those spots and PP assignments now. The team is more skilled now, it isn't a Chia team anymore where guys like Letestu and Chiasson are always on PP.

In terms of Draisaitl Occam's Razor deduction would have it that its mostly likely the great Draisaitl that got Leon going. Not some PTO walk on.

 

[LaGu]

These general comments never really help the dialog along.

Because its impossible to substantiate or refute such general wording, which essentially means nothing other than it being an expressed opinion.

On the last page I specifically critiqued Chiassons lack of bullwork when he is in topsix. On many shifts last season when he was getting primo minutes I felt our star players had to do more of the boardwork than Chiasson was doing. He's much less likely than Maroon or Kassian to be doing as much as the board battles and digging.

This has myriad effects. Sure Chiasson gets more goals because he's setting up shop in the slot while McD or Drai or both are fighting for the puck, but it exposes the latter two to injury, fatigue, targetting.

Theres no particular attribute of Chiasson, speed, or top skills, or work rate that lends Chiasson to be a valuable topsix addition. Kassian is immeasurably better because he has better on ice vision and skills, is faster, and much more likely to take on the physical support that is beneficial in the topline. Chiasson isn't really an ideal support player. Chiassons presence in topsix benefits him, its not clear it benefits the line he's on.

A 20 goal season is outlier. Trouble is when Chiasson isn't scoring its hard to see what his role is. He's not a strong defensive player, not strong in any particular area. I'm not at all saying punt him, but I sure don't want a return of him in PP or topsix play. he adds very little there due to his limited toolkit, and limited inclination to do the bullwork.

I actually used that term in reference to his general behaviour off-ice, in practice etc. No matter what one may think of his contribution in-game I have heard more than once that he is very professional when it comes to those things and that he is a good example for many younger players on how seriously they need to take hockey (especially if you are really a top-6 talent).

Anyhow, I still think he is very useful bottom 6 player and already last season (during his top 6 time) I mentioned that I would prefer to see him in the bottom 6. I do think he can occasionally move up during shorter periods if necessary (injuries amd such) but his place is definitely bottom 6.

So basically we agree

 

[nexttothemoon]

Too many people put too much over emphasis on consistency.

If a guy scores 20 goals in 20 games and then goes stone cold for the next 60 games... that's exactly the same player that scores 1 goal every 4 games like clockwork.

They both help you win just as many games over the course of the season... and actually there's a benefit to the stone cold guy... you can get him the f*** outta there by dropping his minutes when he's stone cold and put someone else in those minutes who might do better, where as with the consistency guy... you have to leave him in there because you know he gets his goal every 4 games or so... so there's no choice of going with another player that might be a little better/hotter, because that likely degrades "consistency guy" who needs his regular minutes to produce.

Ideally you have a few Chiasson's in the lineup throughout the season and roll with the players who are playing well and reduce the minutes of those who aren't... you know... reading your team and adjusting lines/minutes... what any good coach should be doing.

 

[nexttothemoon]

My guess is that Chiasson is likely #4 in goal scoring on this team behind McD/Drai/RNH when the season ends.

 

[nexttothemoon]

Just for a little further proof of concept here.. last season in the first 30 games Chiasson played... he had 16 goals and the team had 39 points in their 1st 36 games by December 22nd which was about an 89 pt full season pace.

He was hot and helping the team win games.

Yes he cooled off and yes the team got fewer points in the final 46 games because of a decrease in secondary scoring... but obviously other secondary players needed to step up and contribute as well which didn't really happen.

 

[MessierII]

My guess is that Chiasson is likely #4 in goal scoring on this team behind McD/Drai/RNH when the season ends.

Neal will outscore chiasson

 

[Drivesaitl]

My guess is that Chiasson is likely #4 in goal scoring on this team behind McD/Drai/RNH when the season ends.

Did you somehow forget about Neal?

Because that's a pretty bad guess.

Like really bad guess.

 

[nexttothemoon]

Neal will outscore chiasson

Hopefully they both perform like Chiasson did last season... and hopefully there's another Chiasson in there as well somewhere.

 

[nexttothemoon]

Did you somehow forget about Neal?

Because that's a pretty bad guess.

Like really bad guess.

Well we'll see obviously... I'm thinking Neal is a little old and creaky as well... don't know what his chances of having an 80 game season are. My guess is also that he drifts down the lineup somewhat as the season rolls on because he's more of a defensive liability than some other options.