GDT: Holland to address media at 11 AM

McJadeddog

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Sep 25, 2003
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Kassian contract, AA trades are big minuses. Trading Lucic for Neal, don't forget we retained salary. We're gonna have to pay Seattle to take Neal off our hands next year.

Why would we do that? Seattle is likely to take Kassian as a forward, or Jones as a dman, depending how we do our protection scheme (7/3, or 4/4). Let Neal play out next year, where he likely still produces somewhat still (say 12-14 goals), and is over paid, but its not the end of the world. Buy him out next off-season, where it will cost us $1.9 million for 4 years, but save us $3.8 million in 21-22 and 22-23. The flat cap is expected to continue until 22-23, so the $3.8 in extra space for these 2 years would be very beneficial. The 23-24 cap is going to go back to the old formula, where the previous years revenue sets the 23-24 cap. (Links: NHL salary cap to remain same next season) So buying him out next off-season would free up a decent amount of cap space in a time when we will need it. The additional 2 years where it actually costs us cap space is when the cap should start rising again, so will be more palatable. It's almost perfect to be honest.

This also happens to align to the cap penalties for Pouliot going away ($1.3 million) and Sekeras penalty dropping by $1 million in 21-22. Buying him out next offseason + the penalties being reduced would free up $6.1 million for 21-22 and 22-23, where the flat cap exists.

$6.1 million should help us replace Neal's 15-ish goals per year and find a #3 center, or help us "trade up" in defence. Say from trading Kelfbom and his $4.1 cap + something, to a team for a more expensive dman. Regardless how we spend it, $6.1 in the "flat-cap era" is a pretty decent amount of space, and the player(s) we would bring in would almost certainly provide more team value than Neal did on his own.
 

space321

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May 11, 2011
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Please explain what I said that was wrong? It’s not the same as Larson getting better at all. Kassian feeds of the crowd it not about him getting better than he is it’s about his intensity gained by the fans. Are you sure you are a fan of the team? Everything I see you post is negative.

You're looking for excuses for his piss poor play and his piss poor contract. Much like how people looked for excuses for Larsson b/c of that piss poor trade. Since when must someone only have positive outlooks for them to be a fan? Just because I don't follow popular media narratives on how Ken Holland is a saviour, doesn't mean I'm not a fan of the team.
 

McJadeddog

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Sep 25, 2003
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Regina, Saskatchewan
Why are we talking about getting rid of Neal
:huh:

Yeah, he was slightly over-paid this year, but he was far from our biggest concern to say the least. He was one of the better players in the playoffs, and was more than adequate (if overpaid) in the regular season. As I said in my previous post. Ride with Neal one more season and make a buy out decision next off-season.
 

space321

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May 11, 2011
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Why would we do that? Seattle is likely to take Kassian as a forward, or Jones as a dman, depending how we do our protection scheme (7/3, or 4/4). Let Neal play out next year, where he likely still produces somewhat still (say 12-14 goals), and is over paid, but its not the end of the world. Buy him out next off-season, where it will cost us $1.9 million for 4 years, but save us $3.8 million in 21-22 and 22-23. The flat cap is expected to continue until 22-23, so the $3.8 in extra space for these 2 years would be very beneficial. The 23-24 cap is going to go back to the old formula, where the previous years revenue sets the 23-24 cap. (Links: NHL salary cap to remain same next season) So buying him out next off-season would free up a decent amount of cap space in a time when we will need it. The additional 2 years where it actually costs us cap space is when the cap should start rising again, so will be more palatable. It's almost perfect to be honest.

This also happens to align to the cap penalties for Pouliot going away ($1.3 million) and Sekeras penalty dropping by $1 million in 21-22. Buying him out next offseason + the penalties being reduced would free up $6.1 million for 21-22 and 22-23, where the flat cap exists.

$6.1 million should help us replace Neal's 15-ish goals per year and find a #3 center, or help us "trade up" in defence. Say from trading Kelfbom and his $4.1 cap + something, to a team for a more expensive dman. Regardless how we spend it, $6.1 in the "flat-cap era" is a pretty decent amount of space, and the player(s) we would bring in would almost certainly provide more team value than Neal did on his own.

You're right, I guess I overestimated how many good players we have lol. Still, we've retained salary and are looking to buy him out. Meh.
 

Little Fury

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Jun 21, 2006
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Other then the AA deal which is still TBD I can’t see what minuses you are talking about. Kassian contract will payoff in the end once the fans are back in the seats. His biggest issue this playoffs was the lack of fans. The guy feeds off the energy of the crowd. He’s always been that way going all the way back to his Sabre days. Some players just need the circus and Kassian is one of them.

His biggest issue is the same issue that's dogged him forever and that's plain inconsistency. Remember this was a guy who was on his way out of the organization last year when he asked about a trade and it wasn't until he got cherry minutes with 97 that he saved his season and Oilers career. The fact they re-signed him when they did with the salary and term knowing that he's nothing more than a fourth liner who can play well in spurts with good players is mind boggling. He'll be our next buyout, you can pretty much guarantee it.
 

McJadeddog

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Sep 25, 2003
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Regina, Saskatchewan
You're right, I guess I overestimated how many good players we have lol. Still, we've retained salary and are looking to buy him out. Meh.

Yeah, the player isn't perfect by any means, at least with that contract around his neck. But we have to look at how much better the player is than Lucic, and how much more buyout friendly his contract is than Lucic's.
 
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McJadeddog

Registered User
Sep 25, 2003
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Regina, Saskatchewan
His biggest issue is the same issue that's dogged him forever and that's plain inconsistency. Remember this was a guy who was on his way out of the organization last year when he asked about a trade and it wasn't until he got cherry minutes with 97 that he saved his season and Oilers career. The fact they re-signed him when they did with the salary and term knowing that he's nothing more than a fourth liner who can play well in spurts with good players is mind boggling. He'll be our next buyout, you can pretty much guarantee it.

Lots of people hated the Kassian deal at the time it happened, and those people were right. I'm not even stating this to pump my own tires, I honestly don't remember whether I liked it or didn't like it at the time, lol.
 

Little Fury

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Jun 21, 2006
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Lots of people hated the Kassian deal at the time it happened, and those people were right. I'm not even stating this to pump my own tires, I honestly don't remember whether I liked it or didn't like it at the time, lol.

I hated it before it was even signed because it was so obvious they were going to f**k it up lol
 

WaitingForUser

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You're looking for excuses for his piss poor play and his piss poor contract. Much like how people looked for excuses for Larsson b/c of that piss poor trade. Since when must someone only have positive outlooks for them to be a fan? Just because I don't follow popular media narratives on how Ken Holland is a saviour, doesn't mean I'm not a fan of the team.
Except in Kassian s case this is not an excuse it’s reality. Some players need to feed off excitement to raise their level of play. Do you not remember the 2016 run? When the energy in the building is going so is Kassian. Like I said some players need that extra push especially high energy guys like him.
 

space321

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May 11, 2011
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Except in Kassian s case this is not an excuse it’s reality. Some players need to feed off excitement to raise their level of play. Do you not remember the 2016 run? When the energy in the building is going so is Kassian. Like I said some players need that extra push especially high energy guys like him.

Yeah, I also remember him stinking it up vs ANA. You telling me that fans weren't in the building in the 2nd round?

What about the two years after those playoffs? Were the fans also not there? You pay a 3.2M x 4 years and is it really too much to ask them to just give a shit? The reality is Holland overpaid his bum ass after a 3 month stint being carried by McDavid AND Draisaitl.

Trust me, at this point next year the media narrative will shift to how horrible of a contract it is, and then fans like you will suddenly change your opinion. It's like clockwork.
 

WaitingForUser

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Yeah, I also remember him stinking it up vs ANA. You telling me that fans weren't in the building in the 2nd round?

What about the two years after those playoffs? Were the fans also not there? You pay a 3.2M x 4 years and is it really too much to ask them to just give a shit? The reality is Holland overpaid his bum ass after a 3 month stint being carried by McDavid AND Draisaitl.

Trust me, at this point next year the media narrative will shift to how horrible of a contract it is, and then fans like you will suddenly change your opinion. It's like clockwork.

Fair enough I guess time will tell on that. Just remember not all players are on all the time if they were we would have hundreds of Connors and Leon’s around the league. Also remember he was signed at a time before Holland knew about a flat cap.
 

Drivesaitl

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Other then the AA deal which is still TBD I can’t see what minuses you are talking about. Kassian contract will payoff in the end once the fans are back in the seats. His biggest issue this playoffs was the lack of fans. The guy feeds off the energy of the crowd. He’s always been that way going all the way back to his Sabre days. Some players just need the circus and Kassian is one of them.

Kassian is the circus. He can't escape it and he brings it anywhere.

Thats an interesting theory that its the presence or absence of fans. However this does not explain that throughout Zachs career he's been up and down like an elevator and mostly due to this demons.

Kassian couldn't wait to get off the ice. He exhibited zero interest in the play in. We saw how Kassian can be different in his last 2-3 shifts in the series. That last ditch effort, at the end, is more damning than if he didn't do it. Because it exhibits fully how the player can be on if he wants. He seldom wants to. Any given season you can get about 1mth of good play out of Kassian and mostly indifferent play.
 

Drivesaitl

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Fair enough I guess time will tell on that. Just remember not all players are on all the time if they were we would have hundreds of Connors and Leon’s around the league. Also remember he was signed at a time before Holland knew about a flat cap.

But there was no reason for Holland to sign the deal that quick. It was really odd, and in effect rewarding Kassian for a suspension (which cost the Oilers team on the ice) In fact the entire Tkachuk-Kassian debacle was Zach being distracted, antagonized, and played. Zach is supposed to be the antagonizer and yets its his actions that cost his team the penalties. With Tkachuk laughing all the way about it all.

Kassian didn't even dissuade Tkachuk. He just reinforced what ratboy is like. I would take an actual antagonist over Kassian any day of the week. This is how he rewards the club for a longterm 13M buck contract. The club that saved his career and made him a rich man.
"Oh sorry, I wasn't into it, I couldn't see any fans there"

Perhaps Zach would have played better if he thought he was having to still play for a new contract. Which given his career path is much more of the story.
 

WaitingForUser

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But there was no reason for Holland to sign the deal that quick. It was really odd, and in effect rewarding Kassian for a suspension (which cost the Oilers team on the ice) In fact the entire Tkachuk-Kassian debacle was Zach being distracted, antagonized, and played. Zach is supposed to be the antagonizer and yets its his actions that cost his team the penalties. With Tkachuk laughing all the way about it all.

Kassian didn't even dissuade Tkachuk. He just reinforced what ratboy is like. I would take an actual antagonist over Kassian any day of the week. This is how he rewards the club for a longterm 13M buck contract. The club that saved his career and made him a rich man.
"Oh sorry, I wasn't into it, I couldn't see any fans there"

Perhaps Zach would have played better if he thought he was having to still play for a new contract. Which given his career path is much more of the story.
If the cap had gone up to the 85-88 million they thought his contract would not be an issue though that’s all I’m saying. Yes he can disappear for stretches but honestly how many players don’t do this?
 

Drivesaitl

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If the cap had gone up to the 85-88 million they thought his contract would not be an issue though that’s all I’m saying. Yes he can disappear for stretches but honestly how many players don’t do this?

How many players that are in the NHL to be energy guys, to be enforcers, to be supposed antagonists completely disappear?

When your designated energy player springs flat tires all the time your team ain't getting far.

Kass is supposed to spark his club. Too bad he needs a six pack of spark plugs..
 

Weitz

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Sep 23, 2014
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Fair enough I guess time will tell on that. Just remember not all players are on all the time if they were we would have hundreds of Connors and Leon’s around the league. Also remember he was signed at a time before Holland knew about a flat cap.

There was zero reason to sign the contract when they did. Unless they were already settled on a number and just waited till Kassian was the fav in town after a couple flames games so no one would care. But its a pretty indefensible signing.
 
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Sanchez

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Jan 18, 2006
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McDavid, Nurse, and Yamamoto will be made available to the media tomorrow.
 

WaitingForUser

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How many players that are in the NHL to be energy guys, to be enforcers, to be supposed antagonists completely disappear?

When your designated energy player springs flat tires all the time your team ain't getting far.

Kass is supposed to spark his club. Too bad he needs a six pack of spark plugs..
Yes how many disappear I here people talking about players on other teams doing the same thing all the time. See Lucic and Buff as examples. Every team has guys like that and most make more then 3.2.
 

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