Confirmed with Link: Holland signed to 2-year extension

Zetterberg4Captain

Registered User
Aug 11, 2009
13,727
2,135
Detroit
Teams that don't spend don't win. Just ask Carolina or Arizona. If you aren't spending money you aren't trying to win, whether through free agency or by signing your own players. If you have $20 million in cap space it means you aren't winning a Stanley Cup. Players don't want to play for an owner that doesn't spend.

sorry are you saying spending wins just like holland has recently?

here I thought it was actual talent...

i am not advocating that the devils refuse to spend any of that 20 million in cap space. Of course they will have to deal with their own players contracts first AND if a trade can be made to acquire a player who fits their timeline and adds salary then I bet they would be all over it thereby eating up some of that 20 million. How much is anyone's guess

but going out and signing a mike green or thomas plekanec to silly deals just to burn through cash will not equate to them winning next season

I suspect the Devils will spend that money closer to the cap when the time is right
 
  • Like
Reactions: jkutswings

Claypool

Registered User
Jan 12, 2009
13,670
4,352
sorry are you saying spending wins just like holland has recently?

here I thought it was actual talent...

i am not advocating that the devils refuse to spend any of that 20 million in cap space. Of course they will have to deal with their own players contracts first AND if a trade can be made to acquire a player who fits their timeline and adds salary then I bet they would be all over it thereby eating up some of that 20 million. How much is anyone's guess

but going out and signing a mike green or thomas plekanec to silly deals just to burn through cash will not equate to them winning next season

I suspect the Devils will spend that money closer to the cap when the time is right

But Holland has already stated they aren't spending big money on free agents while the team is rebuilding. I fail to see what people are complaining about.
 

njx9

Registered User
Feb 1, 2016
2,161
340
Clearly the only thing between the Devils and a Cup is spending a ton of money on irrelevant-to-bad free agents. If only they had a Nielsen signed till he's basically ready to retire, they'd probably still be playing. Or something.
 

Run the Jewels

Make Detroit Great Again
Jun 22, 2006
13,819
1,751
In the Garage
Holland was interviewed by Art Regner on the Red & White Authority podcast. It's a decent interview, Holland has put to bed the "less is more" and "over-ripe" philosophy. He dodged the question about why he hasn't tried to trade some bad contracts. It's good to hear they are giving Bert a break from the AHL playoffs so he can spend the next 4 months in the gym.

Definitely worth checking out.
 

ShelbyZ

Registered User
Apr 8, 2015
3,794
2,555
From a guy who gets it (Devils' GM Ray Shero)

Pens fans reacting to reading that:

200w.gif
 
  • Like
Reactions: kliq

Zetterberg4Captain

Registered User
Aug 11, 2009
13,727
2,135
Detroit
But Holland has already stated they aren't spending big money on free agents while the team is rebuilding. I fail to see what people are complaining about.


dude it was pavels dog who said the devils not spending that cap space was handcuffing hall and hischier

it was a red wing fan who said the devils needed to spend spend spend inorder to win

it was other posters who said what a second, teams shouldnt just spend like a drunken sailor on july 1st, espescially those who are not yet primed to make a solid few runs at the cup(ie new jersey)

spending for the sake of it thinking its what makes you better is ken holland thinking
 

jkutswings

hot piss hockey
Jul 10, 2014
10,843
8,566
Pens fans reacting to reading that:

200w.gif
Shero was handed his core in Pittsburgh, and tasked with filling out a supporting cast around them. Which he did. And now he's tasked with building basically from scratch in New Jersey, and he's off to a good start.

Even a good GM can overstay their welcome. That doesn't mean he didn't play an important role in their success. Kinda like Holland here.
 

Pavels Dog

Registered User
Feb 18, 2013
19,736
14,704
Sweden
I think Shero knows it' not yet the devil' time

They're behind Tampa, Toronto, Boston, Pittsburgh, Washington, and columbus in the east plus Nashville, winnipeg and whomever else in the West

New Jersey is with the likes of Philly and Colorado and probably Vancouver next year. Still two or three years away. Unless it' for a good young player signed, why add too much salary right now?
If they felt it wasn't their time they probably should have held on to their 2nd and 3rd round picks (at least the 2nd which was moved for a rental). They have one pick in the top 100. And if they think they're 2-3 years away... congratulations on wasting the cheapest years of Hischier, Butcher, Bratt, Zacha and Hall. When they cost 30 million combined it'll be a little harder to support them with depth.

Clearly the only thing between the Devils and a Cup is spending a ton of money on irrelevant-to-bad free agents. If only they had a Nielsen signed till he's basically ready to retire, they'd probably still be playing. Or something.
Was the only thing standing between them and a cup Michael Grabner? They have their own Nielsen in Zajac so it's not like they're a team full of 20 year olds thinking about competing 5 years from now. If you have a 26 year old Hart Trophy candidate, what are you really waiting for?
 

Zetterberg4Captain

Registered User
Aug 11, 2009
13,727
2,135
Detroit
If they felt it wasn't their time they probably should have held on to their 2nd and 3rd round picks (at least the 2nd which was moved for a rental). They have one pick in the top 100. And if they think they're 2-3 years away... congratulations on wasting the cheapest years of Hischier, Butcher, Bratt, Zacha and Hall. When they cost 30 million combined it'll be a little harder to support them with depth.


Was the only thing standing between them and a cup Michael Grabner? They have their own Nielsen in Zajac so it's not like they're a team full of 20 year olds thinking about competing 5 years from now. If you have a 26 year old Hart Trophy candidate, what are you really waiting for?

So do you honestly think the new Jersey devils are among the top four or five teams in the world today?

If you say no, then lets hear how you would make them so by spending that cap space. Feel free to propose trades or sign free agents that will actually makevut to July 1st.
 

Pavels Dog

Registered User
Feb 18, 2013
19,736
14,704
Sweden
So do you honestly think the new Jersey devils are among the top four or five teams in the world today?

If you say no, then lets hear how you would make them so by spending that cap space. Feel free to propose trades or sign free agents that will actually makevut to July 1st.
I don't know where I said they were a top 5 team. Nor would I say there's only 5 teams with a chance to win every year. More like there's only 4-5 teams in the playoffs each year that have a zero% chance to win. And this year NJ was one of them (the others imo were Colorado, Philly, Minnesota). That's not a great place to be.
I just don't see what they're waiting for. If they don't think they're ready now.. when will they be? Their prospect pool isn't awesome. They lucked into Hischier but Mcleod/Zacha don't look like future superstars. They don't have a lottery pick this year, they have no 2nd and 3rd. I don't see them growing into a contender from within anytime soon.
Cap space may be their asset now, and not using it is just wasting these cheap Hall/Hischier years, nothing else imo. And if you're also trading away futures you're reducing chances of setting up a nice window for them a few years from now.
 

Zetterberg4Captain

Registered User
Aug 11, 2009
13,727
2,135
Detroit
I don't know where I said they were a top 5 team. Nor would I say there's only 5 teams with a chance to win every year. More like there's only 4-5 teams in the playoffs each year that have a zero% chance to win. And this year NJ was one of them (the others imo were Colorado, Philly, Minnesota). That's not a great place to be.
I just don't see what they're waiting for. If they don't think they're ready now.. when will they be? Their prospect pool isn't awesome. They lucked into Hischier but Mcleod/Zacha don't look like future superstars. They don't have a lottery pick this year, they have no 2nd and 3rd. I don't see them growing into a contender from within anytime soon.
Cap space may be their asset now, and not using it is just wasting these cheap Hall/Hischier years, nothing else imo. And if you're also trading away futures you're reducing chances of setting up a nice window for them a few years from now.


if they're not one of the true elite teams i dont think they need to go all in

these things tend to work in cycles, just have to time it right

maybe they shouldnt have traded and 2nd and 3rd for rentals, but then again they hadent been to the playoffs since the 2011 season so I get why

I think mcleod and zacha are going to be good players behind hall and hischier, few if zero teams have four "superstar" forwards...

I suspect they will use some of that cap space to get better but will also leave some to use when their window actually opens
 
  • Like
Reactions: jkutswings

DetroitRed

Crashes the Crease
Apr 7, 2013
2,871
951
Detroit
I like that they are finally acknowledging that when the team was making all those legendary draft picks, there were a number of voices involved besides Holland's. Bringing in more voices is kinda the next best thing to hiring a new GM, and maybe something we should've done even if we'd already hired a new GM instead of extending Kenny. But, I'll tell you why it still scares the living p!ss out of me...

It's called Danny Cleary.

Actually, I got nothing against Dan Cleary lending the team his perspective. In fact like I said, I welcome the idea of having more voices. Also, I have no idea what Cleary's aptitude is for the job. He certainly had a few good years as a player. HOWEVER, if they are grooming Danny Cleary to take over the GM role after hereditary ruler Ken Holland finally dies in office, then I am scared sh!tl#ss right now. Here's why:

Brad effing Ausmus. That's why.

This is what Detroit sports fans get every time, even if it involves an outsider like Stan Van Gundy: We are forced to endure every single manager for at least three seasons too many, no matter what. And if a guy's already a part of the Detroit sports family like Brad Ausmus (and Danny Cleary), then in addition to at least three seasons too many no matter what, we get a guy who never should've been there in the first place. Plus, we already know how long they held onto Dan Cleary as a player. He was like Weekend at Bernie's On Ice by the end and it went on forever! They love this guy unconditionally.

I'm sorry if I'm being a little too realistic as opposed to optimistic. Maybe if Kenny had named Chris Osgood, or Lidstrom I'd feel better.

Please tell me I'm wrong. Is Cleary being groomed to be our next Brad Ausmus?
 
Last edited:

njx9

Registered User
Feb 1, 2016
2,161
340
Was the only thing standing between them and a cup Michael Grabner? They have their own Nielsen in Zajac so it's not like they're a team full of 20 year olds thinking about competing 5 years from now. If you have a 26 year old Hart Trophy candidate, what are you really waiting for?

What do Grabner and Zajac have to do with anything? The discussion was that they should use up all of their cap space in order to "compete".
 

Pavels Dog

Registered User
Feb 18, 2013
19,736
14,704
Sweden
What do Grabner and Zajac have to do with anything? The discussion was that they should use up all of their cap space in order to "compete".
They traded for Grabner with futures so I don't buy the argument that they're not trying to compete. Zajac was brought up to show they already have "their Nielsen". They could use their cap space to fill other areas though, maybe a little extra scoring or more depth on D.
 

njx9

Registered User
Feb 1, 2016
2,161
340
They traded for Grabner with futures so I don't buy the argument that they're not trying to compete. Zajac was brought up to show they already have "their Nielsen". They could use their cap space to fill other areas though, maybe a little extra scoring or more depth on D.

Other posters were arguing that they're not trying to compete because they have $20m of cap available, and that they should be spending it. I was disputing that notion. I still have no idea what you're arguing for or against, in that context?

I don't think spending to the cap max on mediocre players is going to move them much closer to winning a playoff series.
 

TCNorthstars

Registered User
Jan 5, 2009
4,281
1,796
Lansing area, MI
I like that they are finally acknowledging that when the team was making all those legendary draft picks, there were a number of voices involved besides Holland's. Bringing in more voices is kinda the next best thing to hiring a new GM, and maybe something we should've done even if we'd already hired a new GM instead of extending Kenny. But, I'll tell you why it still scares the living p!ss out of me...

It's called Danny Cleary.

Actually, I got nothing against Dan Cleary lending the team his perspective. In fact like I said, I welcome the idea of having more voices. Also, I have no idea what Cleary's aptitude is for the job. He certainly had a few good years as a player. HOWEVER, if they are grooming Danny Cleary to take over the GM role after hereditary ruler Ken Holland finally dies in office, then I am scared sh!tl#ss right now. Here's why:

Brad effing Ausmus. That's why.

This is what Detroit sports fans get every time, even if it involves an outsider like Stan Van Gundy: We are forced to endure every single manager for at least three seasons too many, no matter what. And if a guy's already a part of the Detroit sports family like Brad Ausmus (and Danny Cleary), then in addition to at least three seasons too many no matter what, we get a guy who never should've been there in the first place. Plus, we already know how long they held onto Dan Cleary as a player. He was like Weekend at Bernie's On Ice by the end and it went on forever! They love this guy unconditionally.

I'm sorry if I'm being a little too realistic as opposed to optimistic. Maybe if Kenny had named Chris Osgood, or Lidstrom I'd feel better.

Please tell me I'm wrong. Is Cleary being groomed to be our next Brad Ausmus?

Why do you think Cleary would be Brad Ausmus, but Osgood or Lidstrom wouldn't? I don't get this line of reasoning. What are you basing it on?
 

Redder Winger

Registered User
May 4, 2017
3,700
730
Why do you think Cleary would be Brad Ausmus, but Osgood or Lidstrom wouldn't? I don't get this line of reasoning. What are you basing it on?

Seems like his point was pretty obvious.
Cleary was kept around as a player due to loyalty.
Can't say the same for Lidstrom and Osgood.

So there are things beyond performance at work with Cleary.
 

Lil Sebastian Cossa

Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
Jul 6, 2012
11,436
7,446
Seems like his point was pretty obvious.
Cleary was kept around as a player due to loyalty.
Can't say the same for Lidstrom and Osgood.

So there are things beyond performance at work with Cleary.

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

Osgood was the epitome of a loyalty signing. He happened to play extremely well for two Cup runs, but damn it... he was signed to back up Dom because he was cheap as hell and we had him before. In 2010, he got damn near half the season at an .898 sv% to prove he couldn't do it anymore before they moved on.

Lidstrom would still be the best D on the roster...

HOWEVER, all of this is nonsense and a completely irrelevant point because we're not talking about them as hockey players. We are talking about them as possible execs/GMs. And when you look at that...

Ken Holland was a crap goalie in the 80s who went on to be a pretty damn good scout and GM.
Wayne Gretzky was probably the best player of all time... and he was a ****ing failure as an exec.
Michael Jordan - GOAT player, WOAT president.
Isiah Thomas - Probably best player in history of the Pistons, quite possibly the worst GM in the history of professional sports (dude killed an entire league)
Matt Millen - pretty good LB for the Raiders, decent enough in the broadcast booth... worst GM in NFL history.

There is virtually no link between success as a player and success as an executive, coach, or GM. Steve Yzerman is far and away the exception who has been pretty damn baller at both.
 

Redder Winger

Registered User
May 4, 2017
3,700
730
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

Osgood was the epitome of a loyalty signing. He happened to play extremely well for two Cup runs, but damn it... he was signed to back up Dom because he was cheap as hell and we had him before. In 2010, he got damn near half the season at an .898 sv% to prove he couldn't do it anymore before they moved on.

Lidstrom would still be the best D on the roster...

HOWEVER, all of this is nonsense and a completely irrelevant point because we're not talking about them as hockey players. We are talking about them as possible execs/GMs. And when you look at that...

Ken Holland was a crap goalie in the 80s who went on to be a pretty damn good scout and GM.
Wayne Gretzky was probably the best player of all time... and he was a ****ing failure as an exec.
Michael Jordan - GOAT player, WOAT president.
Isiah Thomas - Probably best player in history of the Pistons, quite possibly the worst GM in the history of professional sports (dude killed an entire league)
Matt Millen - pretty good LB for the Raiders, decent enough in the broadcast booth... worst GM in NFL history.

There is virtually no link between success as a player and success as an executive, coach, or GM. Steve Yzerman is far and away the exception who has been pretty damn baller at both.

I never said the other guys would be better.

I said Cleary was kept around for reasons other than performance.

So go laugh at someone else's post.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,201
14,683
It's called Danny Cleary.

Actually, I got nothing against Dan Cleary lending the team his perspective. In fact like I said, I welcome the idea of having more voices. Also, I have no idea what Cleary's aptitude is for the job. He certainly had a few good years as a player. HOWEVER, if they are grooming Danny Cleary to take over the GM role after hereditary ruler Ken Holland finally dies in office, then I am scared sh!tl#ss right now. Here's why

Seems like a good fit for helping with player development. We have already heard that from some players like Bertuzzi.

Just not sure about also having him be involved with the draft. Seems like Holland has surrounded himself with some former players (Cleary/Draper) and guys with similar ideologies (Wright). I would like to see some more outside voices in this regard with different ideas/evaluation methods for the draft.

If they are grooming anyone to be the next GM, I thin it is much more likely to be Draper.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: DetroitRed

DetroitRed

Crashes the Crease
Apr 7, 2013
2,871
951
Detroit
Why do you think Cleary would be Brad Ausmus, but Osgood or Lidstrom wouldn't? I don't get this line of reasoning. What are you basing it on?
Maybe I still would, but with Dan Cleary, they've already shown that they want to hang on to him to the point of disaster and well beyond it.
 

Claypool

Registered User
Jan 12, 2009
13,670
4,352
Maybe I still would, but with Dan Cleary, they've already shown that they want to hang on to him to the point of disaster and well beyond it.

By all accounts he's been a great help with the kids in Grand Rapids. He played a big role in the team winning the Calder Cup last season as a player/coach.

He hung around two seasons longer than he probably should have. Big whoop.
 

ShelbyZ

Registered User
Apr 8, 2015
3,794
2,555
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

Osgood was the epitome of a loyalty signing. He happened to play extremely well for two Cup runs, but damn it... he was signed to back up Dom because he was cheap as hell and we had him before. In 2010, he got damn near half the season at an .898 sv% to prove he couldn't do it anymore before they moved on.

When Osgood was signed, Dom was in Ottawa...

Osgood was actually brought back to be a starter and loyalty likely had little to do with it... Joseph wasn't coming back, they (rightfully) never seemed to trust running with Legace as the clear cut #1, and once the Hawks made Khabibulin the highest (and eventually most over)paid goalie in the league, Osgood was the best goalie available coming off a 67 game season where he was 2.24 and .910.

If there was any loyalty at play, it was Osgood accepting peanuts ($900k!) to come back to a team he previously enjoyed playing for.

The alternatives at the time were Mike Dunham or a crusty Sean Burke who ended up getting paid almost twice as much as Osgood to be a backup in Tampa...
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->