Holland has to go

[Adityase]

I have criticized many people here for criticizing Holland, who I think deserves credit for what he's done in the last 10+ years, but I don't disagree that I think he's outlived his usefulness as long as he thinks a little fix can correct the course of this team.

I have a problem with people holding him accountable for individual choices when they themselves aren't held accountable for their ridiculous posts about the players they would have traded or signed, but I think he's trying to cling to an idea that has passed. The Wings are no longer automatic contenders.

I think this offseason we will see how he responds to the new mandate of rebuilding (regardless of whether we make the playoffs or not) because we're not a contender. We don't want to, nor can we survive as bring Calgary. The fans will simply stop coming if we're not a contender. Wings fans know that the fan base is ridiculously fickle for a team that's been the model of all team sports over the last 20+ years.

I don't think it's okay people wanted to fire Holland for letting Quincey go for nothing and yet no one admitted to it when he overpaid for him (which is debatable considering the idea that he could have been a top 4 guy and run the 2nd PP which is what complainers were saying), but the point is, we're not one or 2 moves away from making a run (which only highlights that people upset at him for not making a trade deadline deal are being hypocrites).

But, I fear he's interested in protecting his legacy a little too much. If he is, he should just move into the Devellano chair and rest on his laurels... and let Nill take over.

Click to read more...

 

[Leadzedder]

He did his best to try and sign last off seasons 2 biggest free agents. So.... Your post doesn't really make sense.

Plus I find it hard to read / follow. Borderline incoherent babbling.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I think he deserves a season or two to try fixing it.

Before anyone brings it up, we were odds on favorite to win the Presidents trophy and a strong Cup contender in February of last year, everything broke wrong from there on out. But I don't by the this has been happening forever argument or lets pick the last time we were in the cup logic.

He is now officially on the clock, he has two years for me, he has earned at least that. If next year is a complete disaster maybe they move him farther upstairs, or heck maybe he himself wants to move upstairs. But not right now, sorry cannot buy it.

At least with the coaching sniping I firmly believe coaches messages get stale. Some of the greatest coaches have said as much as have a lot of players. But I am curious to see where Holland goes from here and I still trust him over what else is really out there and available. I don't think Nill will be entirely different. The only big gain is generally all guys want to make a quick stamp on their team, which a lot of people would welcome. But they have similar ideologies when they talk, so they are likely to have a similar end game strategies, Holland has earned the right to try and fix this if he wants to.

 

[PullHard]

It is weird seeing people who usually defend Holland start to switch sides. Pretty soon we're all going to have nothing to talk about. We'll all just being saying the same thing. Still waiting for TZE to crack.

Although I agree that we can't just shove Kenny out the door, TZE. He has given us a lot to be thankful for over the years. He deserves a couple more seasons, at the very least. Will be a long drawn out period for us Wings fans.

We need Bench, Flashy and other posters to keep us distracted and amused with funny graphics.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

It is weird seeing people who usually defend Holland start to switch sides. Pretty soon we're all going to have nothing to talk about. We'll all just being saying the same thing. Still waiting for TZE to crack.

Although I agree that we can't just shove Kenny out the door, TZE. He has given us a lot to be thankful for over the years. He deserves a couple more seasons, at the very least. Will be a long drawn out period for us Wings fans.

We need Bench, Flashy and other posters to keep us distracted and amused with funny graphics.

Yeah I will probably go down with the H.M.S. Holland. Good management is hard to find, careful before throwing it out. People here might not think it but there has to be some planning going on behind the scenes. We are going to find out if we like it or not, but he deserves the chance and a little more patience than he is getting. He doesn't get an extension or anything, he gets two years for me, if we aren't trending right then he is in big trouble at that point.

I think he mistimed the gap in talent this time, nobody is perfect, but Holland has been damn close and we should respect that a little more. It isn't a right to be good every single year, his defensive replacements in house weren't ready and we need some more talent. He got caught and maybe it is just simply slow playing prospects. You do something long enough, eventually you're going to fail it is how you pick yourself back up sometimes as well. I really want to believe he can fix this.

 

[cupforwings09]

THere are other threads dedicated to Holland bashing. Find one, and quit creating new ones.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1401809

 

[Bench]

We need Bench, Flashy and other posters to keep us distracted and amused with funny graphics.

By your command.

 

[HTT3*]

The Wings are no longer automatic contenders.

Thinking they should be is your first mistake. Every team has to go through a slump to re-tool. This is Bettman's NHL where nobody are automatic contenders like the 2002 team, welcome to the Nu:NHL where every team will have down years.

 

[PullHard]

Yeah I will probably go down with the H.M.S. Holland. Good management is hard to find, careful before throwing it out. People here might not think it but there has to be some planning going on behind the scenes. We are going to find out if we like it or not, but he deserves the chance and a little more patience than he is getting. He doesn't get an extension or anything, he gets two years for me, if we aren't trending right then he is in big trouble at that point.

I think he mistimed the gap in talent this time, nobody is perfect, but Holland has been damn close and we should respect that a little more. It isn't a right to be good every single year, his defensive replacements in house weren't ready and we need some more talent. He got caught and maybe it is just simply slow playing prospects. You do something long enough, eventually you're going to fail it is how you pick yourself back up sometimes as well. I really want to believe he can fix this.

I definitely agree. 3,4,5 years ago, no one was complaining about Holland like this. Maybe disagreeing with minimal personnel decisions, maybe the odd draft choice seemed out of place, etc. so management got questioned mildly, but most (myself included) were more than happy to have Kenny driving this boat. He has remained quite conservative ever since then, though. Who is to say with another offseason or two we won't be getting back to being good/ starting to move upwards year by year. Datsyuk leaving will be tough for Kenny to battle through, that may be the focal point of it all.

By your command.

You know nothing, Jon Bench.

 

[we like our team*]

you can tell wings fans have been waiting for so long to have something to complain about other than 7th dmen

 

[Adityase]

Thinking they should be is your first mistake. Every team has to go through a slump to re-tool. This is Bettman's NHL where nobody are automatic contenders like the 2002 team, welcome to the Nu:NHL where every team will have down years.

You have not only clearly missed the point of my post, but also missed the fact that I have defended Holland against the posters here very consistently. I'm not saying the Wings should be automatic contenders... I'm saying that they have been. Not through an operation of NHL bylaws, but through the actions of management. And thereby the fans have been spoiled. I think you're probably a young fan who doesn't realize that the Wings have been a top 5 contender for the cup for every year from 1994 to 2012. That's not a given i'm counting on, that's the situation I'm blaming others for counting on. I thin you've missed the whole point of my post.

 

[Datstromberg]

By your command.

5 million

and i wouldnt be surprised if they gave it to him. this is how holland and co. operate nowadays. terrified to pay big money for good talent, yet overpaying for mediocrity.

 

[Adityase]

He did his best to try and sign last off seasons 2 biggest free agents. So.... Your post doesn't really make sense.

Plus I find it hard to read / follow. Borderline incoherent babbling.

There's one grammatical error. You should try reading it again. I'm agreeing that he's tried to do his best. In fact I'm saying his critics are wrong. I'm also saying though that the circumstances surrounding this team mean he should realize we're in a rebuild situation now and alter his approach. For which I'm willing to wait to see what he does this off season.

If you didn't get that, then you didn't really read and were more interested in reading your own post. Which is par for the course here. Take a screenshot. It'll last longer.

 

[HTT3*]

You have not only clearly missed the point of my post, but also missed the fact that I have defended Holland against the posters here very consistently. I'm not saying the Wings should be automatic contenders... I'm saying that they have been. Not through an operation of NHL bylaws, but through the actions of management. And thereby the fans have been spoiled. I think you're probably a young fan who doesn't realize that the Wings have been a top 5 contender for the cup for every year from 1994 to 2012. That's not a given i'm counting on, that's the situation I'm blaming others for counting on. I thin you've missed the whole point of my post.

Well, I started watching hockey back in 1982... I was 6 years old. So yeah, guess I am kinda young. I'm a year older than Maxim Kuznetsov (if you don't know who he is, ask L.A. )

As for Holland, he's kept a clear and concise plan of action since lockout... that is to stockpile picks and develop quality players. Since that day in 2006 ( I think it was 2006 ) Holland vowed that draft picks and prospects are "gold" in the Nu:NHL, he only traded one pick for a roster player left by Brad Stuart, Nick Lidstrom and for playoff depth in one of the worst draft years we've seen in years. Lets forget about the unforeseen health issue of Jiri Fischer who would likely be our #1 dman right now, and who knows what would of happen last year if Rafalski wasn't forced into early retirement for blowing out his knees.

I think it is clear to anyone with a basic business sense what Holland is trying to juggle; from salary cap, picks, prospects to unforeseen obstacles that creep up on you. With all the injuries this team has faced the past 3 years, it only makes sense for Holland to sign a bunch of veteran depth that know the system to help the transition, allowing for depth call up on prospects as needed. Throwing a ton of rookies and sophomores on a team and expecting them to progress is absurd. We've seen over and over again how that fails... look no further than the almighty Oilers.

People are stomping there feet and demanding something, but don't even know what they want. They either want the Stanley Cup or they want Seth Jones with the #1 pick, there is no happy medium.

The bottom line is nobody on this forum has enough hockey knowledge in their entire family bloodline compared to Ken Hollands pinky nail. People love looking at the past on the internet and watching YouTube video's while sitting on their cozy couch, drinking a beer, eating some Doritos.. and critizing Holland for "mistakes" he made for not anticipating Jiri Fischer going down with a rare heart condition. Or Ralfi blowing out their knees...

Then they will cry that Holland could have acquired "X" FA player and paid him $75 million without knowing what the Salary Cap will be. They just want Holland to throw business out the window and expect him to make his own rules, have his own 3D glasses that allows him to predict the future, and win the cups every single year. Anything less is failure.

I remember the 1980s, I will take this hiccup any day of the week over the 1980s. Wings of 2013 employ some of the best hockey minds in the world, have one of the most committed owners in the NHL, have had some wonderful drafting luck.... which appears to not be luck, but superb drafting. And best of all, we have a hockey team to cheer for.

You can do one of two things, you can sit on your couch, read 2009 hockey news and look at what teams did and compare that to why Holland didn't trade four 1st round picks for "X" player, or you can cheer for your team, enjoy the fight to the playoffs, enjoy watching the young guns play, enjoy the best draft we've seen in 10 years and enjoy hockey on HD TV!

I choose the latter. How about you?

 

[Squirrel in the Hole]

Ask yourself one question: which would take longer: Kenny Holland finding another job or the Red Wings finding his replacement? Holland would be unemployed for miliseconds.

He is one of the best GM's in the NHL by pretty much every measure. He's never faced this situation before, he inherited a Stanley Cup team, won three more Cups, and has kept us competitive every year. EVERY YEAR!

If Parise and Suter had chosen the Wings over the Wild, this would not even be debated. And, is them picking Minny his fault? What, exactly, could he have done better?

 

[probertrules24]

Ask yourself one question: which would take longer: Kenny Holland finding another job or the Red Wings finding his replacement? Holland would be unemployed for miliseconds.

He is one of the best GM's in the NHL by pretty much every measure. He's never faced this situation before, he inherited a Stanley Cup team, won three more Cups, and has kept us competitive every year. EVERY YEAR!

If Parise and Suter had chosen the Wings over the Wild, this would not even be debated. And, is them picking Minny his fault? What, exactly, could he have done better?

I fault Kenny for not being proactive when both guys were teenagers/young men and finding them Michigan women to fall for. Not sure what Kenny was thinking. He had to of known 15 years later theses two would choose to play in another state because their wives grand parents have never left the state of Minnesota.

Obviously this is sarcasm and I believe Holland made an offer he was comfortable with. I have no problem that it wasnt accepted. If he didn't even try then we have something to complain about.

I agree with Z era that Holland has earned the right to correct this. Himself and management have helped to put this team in the playoffs for to many years and to contend pretty much every single year. Melbourne I think you make a good point that Kenny would be snapped up in seconds if he was available. It seems the grass is always greener has creeped into Holland threads now.

 

[Ennui]

By your command.

Very nicely done! GoT themed avys seem perfect for playoffs, if we can only get there.

For some reason, Filppula's face shopped on Daenerys Targaryen looks all too natural. Could he be the last dragon?

 

[Bench]

I kid you not, I thought I had accidentally put the girl's lips on Flip. But those are his.

 

[WingedWheel1988]

I kid you not, I thought I had accidentally put the girl's lips on Flip. But those are his.

Nice, we signed Ellen Degeneres.

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

I think he deserves a season or two to try fixing it.

Before anyone brings it up, we were odds on favorite to win the Presidents trophy and a strong Cup contender in February of last year, everything broke wrong from there on out. But I don't by the this has been happening forever argument or lets pick the last time we were in the cup logic.

He is now officially on the clock, he has two years for me, he has earned at least that. If next year is a complete disaster maybe they move him farther upstairs, or heck maybe he himself wants to move upstairs. But not right now, sorry cannot buy it.

At least with the coaching sniping I firmly believe coaches messages get stale. Some of the greatest coaches have said as much as have a lot of players. But I am curious to see where Holland goes from here and I still trust him over what else is really out there and available. I don't think Nill will be entirely different. The only big gain is generally all guys want to make a quick stamp on their team, which a lot of people would welcome. But they have similar ideologies when they talk, so they are likely to have a similar end game strategies, Holland has earned the right to try and fix this if he wants to.

Well said, I couldn't said it better myself. Holland has earned the right to get himself out of this mess. I think he'll stay the course for a year or 2, only making trades if they help us long term, slowly introducing the prospects into the team and by year 3 or 4 we should be back to contenders.

 

[mindfly]

I've been advocating that since the second straight playoff loss to the sharks in 2011.

 

[crashman]

I've been advocating that since the second straight playoff loss to the sharks in 2011.

You've been consistent, I'll give you that!

 

[HTT3*]

Imagine all the GMs fired for not winning the President trophies and Stanley Cups year in, year out because the fans demand the SC every year and anything else is unacceptable... wow, the unemployment line will be long!!

Holland has been on course since the day he committed to not trading away picks and prospects. Since that day we only traded one draft pick in a shallow draft year. I'm actually proud of Kenny for sticking to his guns and re-stocking the farm while maintaining a team that stays in playoff contention.

 

[Heaton]

I've been advocating that since the second straight playoff loss to the sharks in 2011.

And some people have wanted Babcock fired since 2007!

 

[ricky0034]

Imagine all the GMs fired for not winning the President trophies and Stanley Cups year in, year out because the fans demand the SC every year and anything else is unacceptable... wow, the unemployment line will be long!!

Holland has been on course since the day he committed to not trading away picks and prospects. Since that day we only traded one draft pick in a shallow draft year. I'm actually proud of Kenny for sticking to his guns and re-stocking the farm while maintaining a team that stays in playoff contention.

i'd be more in line with that type of thinking if he actually played prospects when they were ready instead of stubbornly leaving guys like Cleary in the lineup so guys like Tatar can rot in the AHL despite already being better