HOH Top 60 Wingers of All Time

[BenchBrawl]

Yes because everyone knows that chronologicality is the most important criteria in hockey....?

It's important yes.I take it you meant "consecutiveness" or similar concept.

 

[GreatGonzo]

1979-1991 - 21 teams, up to 16 made the playoffs. Not an accomplishment.

For the record, I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just posing a counter viewpoint to the O6 is easy peasy and that playing today is so hard...there's some merit, but it needs to be measured appropriately though...

I see your point. A lot of them were just like All Star teams, having the best of the best. So I do agree it definitely wasn’t easy, especially when you have teams like the Islanders, Canadiens, and Bruins wrecking the league.

 

[Canadiens1958]

That’s under the assumption that him scoring as many goals as he can isn’t helping his team.....which it does. There for your entire premise is flat out wrong.

They pay him to score goals, and he has done that at a level not many have seen. He isn’t going out of his way and against the teams initial game plan to score, just to pad his stats and look good.

This really shouldn’t be THAT difficult to understand.....

Assuming you meant therefore as in hence.

Same applies to Crosby who plays with developmental players sacrificing his stats, or players like Bobby Hull, Gordie Howe,Beliveau, Henri Richard, thru Yzerman, Messier, Bergeron, Toews, Couturier playing with rookies or assuming roles beneficial to the team but harmful to their own stats.

Any evidence of Ovi doing so?

 

[Sentinel]

Assuming you meant therefore as in hence.

Same applies to Crosby who plays with developmental players sacrificing his stats, or players like Bobby Hull, Gordie Howe,Beliveau, Henri Richard, thru Yzerman, Messier, Bergeron, Toews, Couturier playing with rookies or assuming roles beneficial to the team but harmful to their own stats.

Any evidence of Ovi doing so?

The only time Ovy is harmful to his team is when he is not scoring goals. When he is scoring goals, he cannot, by definition, be harmful to his team.

 

[PenguinSpeed]

-I got to number 7 to see Bill Cook, a player Ive never heard of. Born in the 1800s. There is next to zero video on him. He led the NHL one time in his career in scoring. And averaged .5 points per game in the playoffs which is awful beyond awful. This is the 7th best wing of all time? I simply cant understand the fascination with pond hockey players 100 years ago in an all Canadian league with 6 total teams. And the average season back then was around 46 games. It cant even be proven that players back then would even have the stamina to play an 82 game season today plus 4 playoff rounds.

 

[PenguinSpeed]

-Seriously?

 

[Canadiens1958]

The only time Ovy is harmful to his team is when he is not scoring goals. When he is scoring goals, he cannot, by definition, be harmful to his team.

Definitely less beneficial than the majority of career 500+ goal scorers in the history of the NHL:

Player Season Finder | Hockey-Reference.com

 

[The Macho King]

-I got to number 7 to see Bill Cook, a player Ive never heard of. Born in the 1800s. There is next to zero video on him. He led the NHL one time in his career in scoring. And averaged .5 points per game in the playoffs which is awful beyond awful. This is the 7th best wing of all time? I simply cant understand the fascination with pond hockey players 100 years ago in an all Canadian league with 6 total teams. And the average season back then was around 46 games. It cant even be proven that players back then would even have the stamina to play an 82 game season today plus 4 playoff rounds.

You just blew everyone's mind. A+ argument guy.

Nah but for real - he led the league in scoring and goals twice. Four-time All-Star. I don't know a ton about him or how he was in the playoffs (from a look at the stats it looks like he made the Finals four times, winning twice though, which ain't bad).

 

[MXD]

-I got to number 7 to see Bill Cook, a player Ive never heard of. Born in the 1800s. There is next to zero video on him. He led the NHL one time in his career in scoring. And averaged .5 points per game in the playoffs which is awful beyond awful. This is the 7th best wing of all time? I simply cant understand the fascination with pond hockey players 100 years ago in an all Canadian league with 6 total teams. And the average season back then was around 46 games. It cant even be proven that players back then would even have the stamina to play an 82 game season today plus 4 playoff rounds.

...That's not exactly a good start.

 

[Nick Hansen]

-I got to number 7 to see Bill Cook, a player Ive never heard of. Born in the 1800s. There is next to zero video on him. He led the NHL one time in his career in scoring. And averaged .5 points per game in the playoffs which is awful beyond awful. This is the 7th best wing of all time? I simply cant understand the fascination with pond hockey players 100 years ago in an all Canadian league with 6 total teams. And the average season back then was around 46 games. It cant even be proven that players back then would even have the stamina to play an 82 game season today plus 4 playoff rounds.

'Relative to era' dominates the perspective far too much on here.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Assuming you meant therefore as in hence.

Same applies to Crosby who plays with developmental players sacrificing his stats, or players like Bobby Hull, Gordie Howe,Beliveau, Henri Richard, thru Yzerman, Messier, Bergeron, Toews, Couturier playing with rookies or assuming roles beneficial to the team but harmful to their own stats.

Any evidence of Ovi doing so?

So now Ovechkin is a compiler for wanting one or two more goals to reach major milestones.....apparently hindering his team and just shows selfishness, all while Crosby is “sacrificing” his stats for the better of the team. Sure, no bias at all there

By the way, Toews rarely had to play with rookies or subpar linemates. and he definitely didn’t sacrifice anything for the good of his team. He had the offensive starts, the teammates, and all the help in the world to produce more, but didn’t....because he isn’t that type of player.

Also Yzerman or Messier, never “sacrificed” anything. They had terrific linemates and they benefited from them as much as they did for each other.

You need to get out of your fairytale world and back to reality, because everything you just stated makes little to no sense, and only shows how flawed your opinion is on the matter.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Same applies to Crosby who plays with developmental players sacrificing his stats...

Hornquist and Guentzal, plus tons of ice time with Malkin and Letang.

Oh man what a sacrifice.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

A show of hands: does anybody, besides C1958, care if the player's best years happen chronologically or not?

In fact, there is something appealing when a great player has great seasons years apart. Like Mikhailov or Staal.

Dude once said that OV "failed to adjust playing RW" even though he won a hart + 2 rockets doing so

 

[GlitchMarner]

Isn't "compiler" simply supposed to be used to describe a player who manages to hang around and collect points season after season without being a true superstar or high-level player ("he compiled his way to impressive career totals but isn't a true great", "he shouldn't be in the HHOF because he compiled his way to 1000 career points" etc)? I don't know if it's supposed to have anything to do with mindset, approach or even attitude.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Can we stop this now...? We're not uncovering anything new...people are stating things and then a couple people take drivebys and just yell "no!" and "go **** yourself!" with really nothing of substance to back it up...the initial idea is not being pursued enough for anyone to make the connection (my long post attempting to explain part of it was largely ignored by the aforementioned shouters)...that's some main board garbage...

We're just not on the same page here. Let's either ditch it (as we aren't discussing anything) or reset and attack this from a different angle...


Failing a better idea to prevail...let's go here...we recently had a poster post a ton of info and stats from Soviets and Czechs, has anyone (theokritos?) started to digest that...we also recently had Yakushev enter the HHOF...as superficial as that last point is...has our perception of any international players changed in a meaningful way vs the field or vs each other...?

 

[daver]

Shows that a player can continue his RS success thru the playoffs the same year. That the opposition does not adjust.

OV was challenging Crosby for best playoff PPG during his 07-10 peak. Was the Caps lack of playoff success due to the opposition adjusting or the Caps not being a good enough team? Give Guy the edge for his team winning and him putting up full Cup runs but I cannot see this edge being enough to overcome OV's superior regular season resume.

OV, like Jagr, now has a playoff resume befitting their RS stature; while not a weakness, it is certainly not a strength in comparison to their peers at winger like Howe and Richard. Hull would be closer to OV and Jagr in that regard too.

IMO, Jagr and OV are neck and neck at this point. Hull still has the better RS and playoff resume over OV and a solid close to his career. OV needs more than just longevity to pass Hull (but would pass Jagr).

 

[Johnny Engine]

someone will humour your desire that everyone acknowledges the 2916 and 2017 penguins at all times, always.

Nobody gives them proper credit for weathering that awful travel schedule in the Martian Conference.

 

[Varan]

update this, OV is top 3 don't @ me

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

update this, OV is top 3 don't @ me

Are you volunteering to admin the next project? Should only take about 100 hours (estimated) of your time over a period of 4-5 months.

I should add that based off the current project this forum is doing (top 100 players - all positions), Ovechkin would probably finish 5th, but maybe finish 6th, on a wingers project done today.

 

[wetcoast]

update this, OV is top 3 don't @ me

I think he could climb to 4th all time but I think he is going to settle in 5th spot, which is where he ended up on the top 100 players of all time among wingers

 

[bobholly39]

I could see Ov going as high as 2 all time tbh. he's still doing great this season, so he could have some more to add before his career is done.

But then again im not as high on Hull as many others are. If it's up to me i'd have Jagr #2 right now.

 

[Varan]

Are you volunteering to admin the next project? Should only take about 100 hours (estimated) of your time over a period of 4-5 months.

I should add that based off the current project this forum is doing (top 100 players - all positions), Ovechkin would probably finish 5th, but maybe finish 6th, on a wingers project done today.

I'm not volunteering, however his stock has certainly pushed him up higher.

I'd say top 4 bare minimum but it's all subjective at this point.

 

[solidmotion]

to resuscitate the patrick kane discussion from a couple years ago...

he's got a hart-type season shaping up right now. also a bit startling to see that over the past 5 years, as of this moment, he leads the league in points—almost identical stats to crosby, but a bit better. mcdavid is obviously the class of the league right now but kane is right there with him even as he enters his 30s. (good god time flies.)

kind of an odd career with so much team success early on but only good-not-great individual numbers and then a statistical peak afterwards. the anti-yzerman.

where would he rank today? i can see an argument for top 20 personally. i would think he's clearly above st louis and iginla who are back-to-back on the 2014 list at #24 and 25.

 

[The Macho King]

to resuscitate the patrick kane discussion from a couple years ago...

he's got a hart-type season shaping up right now. also a bit startling to see that over the past 5 years, as of this moment, he leads the league in points—almost identical stats to crosby, but a bit better. mcdavid is obviously the class of the league right now but kane is right there with him even as he enters his 30s. (good god time flies.)

kind of an odd career with so much team success early on but only good-not-great individual numbers and then a statistical peak afterwards. the anti-yzerman.

where would he rank today? i can see an argument for top 20 personally. i would think he's clearly above st louis and iginla who are back-to-back on the 2014 list at #24 and 25.

Why has he separated himself from MSL or Iginla again? Especially MSL.

 

[solidmotion]

Why has he separated himself from MSL or Iginla again? Especially MSL.

i was thinking playoffs now that peak is pretty even. i'm also impressed by kane becoming one of the league's premier goal scorers after many years as primarily a playmaker. we'll see about longevity, i guess i'm projecting there.