HOH Top 60 Centers of All-Time: Round 1 Preliminary Discussion Thread

Hardyvan123

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Jul 4, 2010
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To rail on Backstrom for his scoring finishes sort of misses the point. I took him over the Pecas of the world on my list because the post expansion guys had a chance to play a larger role on their team than an 06 checker like Backstrom did. He did finish 5th in center all-star team voting in 1962 as well.

Phil Housley was a one-way player being fed icetime on bad teams, you couldn't get more opposite of Backstrom.

So if there some projection on what Ralph might have done in different circumstances or is he being judged by what he actually did?

That's were the Housley reference I made comes into play.

If Phil anchors that Edmonton defense and wins 4 or 6 SC then there would be much less talk about his defensive shortcomings right?
 

BraveCanadian

Registered User
Jun 30, 2010
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That's were the Housley reference I made comes into play.

If Phil anchors that Edmonton defense and wins 4 or 6 SC then there would be much less talk about his defensive shortcomings right?

Have you seen the grilling Coffey gets around here?
 

BraveCanadian

Registered User
Jun 30, 2010
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Or most "one-way" players around here for that matter? I also favor two-way players, I'm a very defensively-oriented player and coach, but some players really get the book thrown at them under the guise of advanced science...I'm guilty of it myself...

I also favour two way guys.. I love the Gilmours and Trottiers etc.

At some point, however, a guy can tilt the ice so far one way it doesn't matter.
 

BraveCanadian

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Jun 30, 2010
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Yes and it's well deserved, a lot of his defensive shortcomings were "hidden" by his playing with Edmonton and then later Pittsburg and Detroit.

That is just the party line we're talking about.

Really? His defensive shortcomings were "hidden" for a decade and a half...

...

In fact, in Pittsburgh they weren't hidden at all. That team was terrible at even strength when Coffey got there and they made it up on the powerplay.

And in Detroit they were "hidden" again while he won the Norris.

Again.


But this is off topic obviously..
 

Canadiens1958

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Nov 30, 2007
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Plenty

Seriously, and with Coffey we're talking a player who raised his game in the playoffs, basically the opposite of Housley.

What does this have to do with ranking centers again?

Plenty. A complete overall center should be able to optimize team performance whether playing with a traditional stay at home defenseman, a one dimensional offensive defenseman or a complete defenseman.

Properly presented, Paul Coffey's play could give insight into Gretzky, Lemieux, Fedorov and Yzerman efforts at center. Similarly for other centers relative to their teammates on defense.
 

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
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I went to Joe Lewis Arena and saw a lot of Coffey when he played in Detroit (I was in grad school across the river in Windsor), and I was embarrassed at seeing my childhood hero play so awfully without the puck. He was like Pavel Bure in his circling in open ice waiting for others to feed him the puck for rushes on transition. He was opportunistic and effective at helping the Wings score, but he spent way too much time up ice, especially between the two bluelines, instead of in his own zone. he looked like a cherrypicker extrordinaire. When Karlsson won the Norris I remembered Coffey in Detroit. Whatever defensive ability Coffey had (the legendary 1987 two-on-one rish defended against intercepted pass of the Soviets he turned around into an eventual score at the other end) was gone by his time in Detroit. As someone who grew up admiring Coffey on T.V. (which follows the puck) it was a rude awakening to see him in person. He was immensively talented with the puck and skating, but his defensive commitment was to some degree deficient, for sure in Detroit. Stats won't convince me that my eyes were wrong.

Certainly, he helped the careers on all-time great centers, and the centers helped him. He was truly lucky to have played with so many talented centers (at least five on our final top-40 list I bet).
 

ted2019

History of Hockey
Oct 3, 2008
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I told someone Who's a big fan and told Him about the project going on. He was very insistent that Peter McNab is a top 60 Center. He got very upset that I told Him that He might not make a lot of peoples top 120 list.
 

ted2019

History of Hockey
Oct 3, 2008
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It's interesting to note that 5 or 6 current centers who will most likely make our top 80 list are off to great starts this season, even if it doesn't count in our evaluation of them for this project.

Sid, H Sedin, Zetts, Dats, Stamkos, Thorton and Malkin are all off to good to great starts.

Only Sedin isn't on My list
 

ted2019

History of Hockey
Oct 3, 2008
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I'm talking about Marleau if we consider him as a winger, which was in response to a post about him as a winger, center list is much harder to crack.

I think Marleau has a very difficult time making a lot of people's top 60 all time list for Wingers. He would be at the very bottom half of My top 80.
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
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I told someone Who's a big fan and told Him about the project going on. He was very insistent that Peter McNab is a top 60 Center. He got very upset that I told Him that He might not make a lot of peoples top 120 list.

You're friends with Peter McNab? Awesome!
 

bigbuffalo313

Registered User
Apr 28, 2012
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New York
It's interesting to note that 5 or 6 current centers who will most likely make our top 80 list are off to great starts this season, even if it doesn't count in our evaluation of them for this project.

Sid, H Sedin, Zetts, Dats, Stamkos, Thorton and Malkin are all off to good to great starts.

Z is the only on of them not on my list, but none are higher than 40(Malkin is the highest for me at 41)
 

Dennis Bonvie

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Dec 29, 2007
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Z is the only on of them not on my list, but none are higher than 40(Malkin is the highest for me at 41)

I guess if looking from a career stand point only I can see Malkin and Crosby not being higher.

But all of those mentioned were on my list and I can't see 40 centers that were actually better players than Crosby or Malkin.
 

thom

Registered User
Mar 6, 2012
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Not shabby at all for Henrik Im mean you lead the league 3 times in assists it means a lot.There are other factors but he should be in top 80.What your saying is you could have 20 all time nhl clubs and he wouldnt be on one.Somewhere he deserves a top 80 position
 

reckoning

Registered User
Jan 4, 2005
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I told someone Who's a big fan and told Him about the project going on. He was very insistent that Peter McNab is a top 60 Center. He got very upset that I told Him that He might not make a lot of peoples top 120 list.
In all fairness, it's a natural reaction for someone to think that so-and-so was a pretty good player and should make the list. There's probably about a hundred players I would've labelled as Top-60 before actually making the list and seeing how little room there is on it for so many players.

Show him the finished top-60 list, and ask him who he would remove in favour of McNab.
 

Killion

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
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Just a cryin shame Derek Sandersons arc was so short, 67-72 essentially. Without question one of the best Defensive (having been a scoring sensation in Jr) Centers Ive ever seen play & vastly under-rated if not all but forgotten (but for his lifestyle). Won the Calder the year after Orr, fed him the puck in the now classic photo "The Goal". Even based on that 5yrs and at his peak worth considering, part of the mix & conversation.
 
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seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,080
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Regina, SK
Just a cryin shame Derek Sandersons arc was so short, 67-72 essentially. Without question one of the best Defensive (having been a scoring sensation in Jr) Centers Ive ever seen play & vastly under-rated if not all but forgotten (but for his lifestyle). Won the Calder the year after Orr, fed him the puck in the now classic photo "The Goal". Even based on that 5yrs and at his peak worth considering, part of the mix & conversation.

why aren't you in this thing? We need more people like you.
 

TheDevilMadeMe

Registered User
Aug 28, 2006
52,271
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Brooklyn
Just a cryin shame Derek Sandersons arc was so short, 67-72 essentially. Without question one of the best Defensive (having been a scoring sensation in Jr) Centers Ive ever seen play & vastly under-rated if not all but forgotten (but for his lifestyle). Won the Calder the year after Orr, fed him the puck in the now classic photo "The Goal". Even based on that 5yrs and at his peak worth considering, part of the mix & conversation.

Somewhat random fact about Sanderson: He was considered the best faceoff man in his time (selected "best faceoff man" in a poll of NHL coaches in 1971). Sanderson said that he learned how to take faceoffs by watching old video of Ted Kennedy.

why aren't you in this thing? We need more people like you.

If I thought there was any chance of Killion joining this thing, I would have sent him a PM cajoling him to do so, like I did with a few other posters.
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,080
7,131
Regina, SK
Somewhat random fact about Sanderson: He was considered the best faceoff man in his time (selected "best faceoff man" in a poll of NHL coaches in 1971). Sanderson said that he learned how to take faceoffs by watching old video of Ted Kennedy.



If I thought there was any chance of Killion joining this thing, I would have sent him a PM cajoling him to do so, like I did with a few other posters.

Why don't we just introduce a rule that "if your name is Killion, participation is mandatory"? that way he has to join.
 

Killion

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
36,763
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why aren't you in this thing? We need more people like you.

... Ya, see, I just dont have the patience you guys have. Liable to just delete posts I disagree with or dont like. Warn & Infract. Generally abuse the participants. :laugh:

And "Mandatory"?!!!

Somewhat random fact about Sanderson: He was considered the best faceoff man in his time (selected "best faceoff man" in a poll of NHL coaches in 1971). Sanderson said that he learned how to take faceoffs by watching old video of Ted Kennedy.

He was just a Whirling Dervish out there. Closest I could compare him to would be like a cross between Bobby Clarke & a Doug Gilmour type. Absolutely fearless, an agitator & mouthpiece but one who fought his own battles. Very smart hockey player. I rate him very highly, way WAY up there and at his peak, when he was really on, beyond dynamic.
 
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