Off-Topic Chat Thread

[Theokritos]

Miroslav Klose was never one of the top players in the game, but I'm not sure how one can hate him. A hard-working team player, running a lot, creating space for others, contributing defensively. And on top of it a class act on the pitch with some extraordinary acts of fair play.

 

[Theokritos]

Got a hard-to-find version of Stokowski/Philadelphia...

Speaking of Stokowski: I recently watched Disney's Fantasia again for the first time in a few years. Just a tread to watch.

 

[sr edler]

I didn’t say I hate him specifically, but that type of player/striker, and hating in this case is just more of an exaggerated description of normal dislike. I also didn’t like H. Larsson and Pippo Inzaghi, despite them being hard workers, because I just thought they were boring/uninteresting/one-dimensional, slightly overrated by some people, and seldomly scored any eyebrow raising goals.

 

[Theokritos]

Inzaghi? I remember him as a cherry picker you didn't see all game except when he was whistled offside. And then of course there always came the one occasion when the opponent allowed him just a little space and he got the ball in an onside position and before you could even look, he was already gone and inevitably put the ball in the net.

Inzaghi was a truly one-dimensional but extremely successful goal getter. Very shrewd, highly opportunistic. I don't see the comparison with Klose. Inzaghi let the team work for him, Klose worked for the team.

Also, I seem to remember Inzaghi would drop like a stone to get a penalty call when any defender touched him. (Not that he wasn't fouled frequently. He surely was difficult to stop.) Klose on the other hand got penalty calls in his favour deliberately retracted by pointing out to the referee that they weren't justified.

 

[sr edler]

Players don't have to be identical to share similar 'frameworks', or however you want to put it. I agree Inzaghi was a much more cynical player, somewhat a product of the much more cynical Serie A, but does it really matter in the bigger picture? I just never enjoyed Klose/Larsson type of players, because their presence sucked the artistic joy out of the game for me, on top of them being slightly overrated by some people, you'll probably have to live with that fact Theo. I was also not a fan of British kick-and-run football, I liked Le Tissier instead, much like Xavi. I'm not pretending Le Tissier was better than say Shearer though, because he wasn't.

 

[Nick Hansen]

I wish 'Henke' was playing today, considering the garbage we have up front these days. Guidetti must be the most overrated player in Swedish footballing history.

 

[sr edler]

Inzaghi? I remember him as a cherry picker you didn't see all game except when he was whistled offside.

Depending on what type of game you could see him all the time, doing his thing. He would look visibly sweaty too. I remember a game against Romania, he ran offside 20 times, then scored an ugly/simplistic goal. Such a bad product. But, he didn't look like a coaster, like Davor Suker. I'm not saying Suker was a coaster, necessarily, just that he looked like a coaster. Inzaghi looked like a 10 year old boy at Piazza San Marco desperately trying to sell as many fake souvenirs in 90 minutes as humanly possible. Just a natural pain in the ass.

 

[Nick Hansen]

Inzaghi spent the entire game taking 'djupledslöpningar'. One of the few instances where the Swedish language beats English.

 

[VMBM]

For me, the ultimate classic football game (unfortunately I only found the highlights), 1982 World Cup semi-final West Germany vs France:

(can only be watched on YT, apparently)

The game just went on and on... And it was an evening game, which also made it more athmospheric. I think the klock was well past midnight at least in Finland when the game finally ended. So much drama; action going back and forth, "Toni" Schumacher's vile act against Patrick Battiston, France leading already by two goals in the OT, but Germany coming back (didn't they always?), and also leading the penalty shootout, but then losing it in the end. Still the best game I've ever seen! (Not probably a very objective view, but there you go.)

 

[sr edler]

I wish 'Henke' was playing today, considering the garbage we have up front these days. Guidetti must be the most overrated player in Swedish footballing history.

He was a good player, obviously, but also almost infuriatingly boring as a person. He always looked liked someone just had run over his cat with a tractor. There's this 'famous' Rod Stewart story, perhaps you've heard it.

Larsson was in the States, I think at a hospital in Colorado, to do some kind of surgery. For some reason the Scottish artist/singer Rod Stewart, the biggest Celtic fan, also happened to be there at the same time, so a doctor tells him about this former Celtic player being at the hospital and sets up a meeting.

Stewart, boyishly excited about meeting his football idol, tells Larsson he’s signed a Celtic jersey and given it to one of the doctors who in turn has put it up on his hospital wall. Larsson then apparently replies, unimpressed and deadly serious:

"But you've never played for Celtic"

Stewart, 'slightly' underwhelmed by the meeting, said afterwards that he had never met such boring and serious people before (including Larsson's wife Magdalena.)

 

[sr edler]

@Nick Hansen As for Guidetti, I haven't followed Swedish football very closely lately so I don't know much about him. I know he scored a bunch of goals in the Dutch league a couple of years ago (with that silly heart-hand celebration) and looked relatively promising, then got injured or sick for a long time because he ate some contaminated chicken or something. But Eredivisie is like the QMJHL of football, which means high scoring. Has a big mouth. I don't know who's overrating him though, because I don't follow football journalism. Perhaps there just aren't many other guys out-dueling him for roster spots at the national team level? He feels like a new Bojan Djordjic, attitude/accomplishment wise, except Djordjic scored just 6 senior goals (for lowly clubs) and was never capped at all by the real national team.

 

[Theokritos]

For me, the ultimate classic football game (unfortunately I only found the highlights), 1982 World Cup semi-final West Germany vs France:

For me, Netherlands vs Czech Republic from the 2004 European Championship is in the mix. Only a round robin game, not as important as a semi-final, but what an exciting and entertaining game. Non-stop action and plenty of drama. If someone who has never followed association football asked me for one single game to watch to get into the game, this one would be on my short list. If only the game was on YT.

 

[Troubadour]

For me, Netherlands vs Czech Republic from the 2004 European Championship is in the mix. Only a round robin game, not as important as a semi-final, but what an exciting and entertaining game. Non-stop action and plenty of drama. If someone who has never followed association football asked me for one single game to watch to get into the game, this one would be on my short list. If only the game was on YT.

Yeah, that one had it all. Taking Robben off was a big mistake for the Dutch.



Another one I liked a lot was the 2005 CL final. A great clash of styles with Milan schooling LFC with the type of the multi-gear game they were absolutely clueless about, then Benitez sending Dieter Hamann on to neutralize Kaka (which he did 100%), then LFC grinding their way back one by one, Canada-style.



The second leg of the 2005 CL first knockout round between Chelsea and Barcelona. For a brief, there was a sparkling rivalry between these two teams. And that particular match was a treat to watch. Again, a great confrontation of the feisty British style and Spanish (or whatever) finesse. You can tell Mourinho valued that victory:

 

[Sentinel]

There’s value in a player like Klose, you're just overstating it. Germany early on in Klose's international career was more reliant on players like Ballack/Lahm, then Özil took over Ballack's role. Thomas Müller has held the same scoring pace/role as Klose both in the WC and with Bayern München. J. Klinsmann held the same scoring pace as Klose on the national team and in the World Cup, just in fewer appearances and in a lower scoring era/environment. He was better than Klose.

Ooh, "a scoring pace." A great Crosby argument

Klose scored more goals than anybody else in World Cup history. His final goal was the winning goal against Brazil, in Brazil, overtaking a Brazilian in that spot. You can dance around these facts all day long. I'm done here.

 

[Sentinel]

It was a 7-1 game

His was the winning goal. It does not matter what the score was. Same as in hockey FYI.

 

[Sentinel]

Is this a joke I'm missing?

No, it's a serious comment that you're missing.

 

[sr edler]

Ooh, "a scoring pace." A great Crosby argument

Are you gonna cry about Crosby in a discussion about football? I don't care much about Crosby, I think he’s pretty uninteresting.

If you score at a certain clip (and play in a certain way) over several World Cup tournaments, 3 in Klinsmann's case, you've showed enough for me. Plus a lengthy and highly successful club career.

But no, one guy is better simply because he played more games.

 

[sr edler]

What's next? Are you gonna say Klose was better than Bergkamp? Shevchenko? Pavel Nedved? Zidane? Figo? Rivaldo? Pele? Maradona? Cruyff? Messi? Ronaldo?

I don't even understand what you’re trying to say.

 

[Cruor]

Holland - Portugal had a couple of legendary fixtures. I don't recall if it was in 2004 or 2008 (or the 2006 WC?), but I know van Nistelrooy was subbed out. I told my dutch friend it was a big mistake since they were trailing, he said "no matter he isn't a good footballer." At that point it isn't about being good at football, it's about being at the right place at the right time and sticking your leg out for a goal...

 

[unknown33]

No, it's a serious comment that you're missing.

His was the winning goal. It does not matter what the score was. Same as in hockey FYI.

First of all GWG aren't counted that way in football. Second even in hockey you'd be called out for the most ridiculous misuse of stats ever seen if you mention a "GWG" in a 7-1 blowout as a player's career highlight.

I assume "carrying them to the SF" refers to '10 ?

 

[sr edler]

I didn't watch that game, Brazil vs Germany from the 2014 World Cup, because I was on vacation in Denmark, but I wasn't surprised at all Germany won. At the final score? Yes, perhaps a little, but at the same time the German national team is known as a machine just running over their opponents when they get that kind of upper hand. I saw the result in Danish newspapers while in a grocery store in Copenhagen.

Brazil missed their best player and only true super star, Neymar, plus their captain and rock on defense Thiago Silva, while Germany had all their best players healthy and primed (Lahm, Boateng, Özil, Kroos, Müller, etc.). And this was a team (Brazil's) that already had had big problems laying off Chile in the round of 16 (with Silva and Neymar in the lineup). The only thing in Brazil's favor really going into the game was home ground.

I just looked at the boxscore and the rosters. Brazil had beasts like Hulk (not the green cartoon one, the football player representing Zenit Saint Petersburg), Bernard and Fred on top. Germany led 7–0 when Oscar scored a meaningless consolation goal in the 90th minute. If it had been a close 1–1 game, and Brazil had had their best team and players, and Klose had scored a strong goal in say the 70th minute, and then Brazil just collapses in the final 20 minutes chasing an equalizing goal, then Sentinel might have had some kind of point. That just didn't happen. Also, Wikipedia says Toni Kroos got Man of the Match honors.

 

[unknown33]

At the final score? Yes, perhaps a little, but at the same time the German national team is known as a machine just running over their opponents when they get that kind of upper hand

Come on. Understatement of the century. It's up there for the most unlikely scorelines which ever happened in sports.

 

[sr edler]

Come on. Understatement of the century. It's up there for the most unlikely scorelines which ever happened in sports.

What I mean is 1–5 or 1–7, really not that big off a difference in the main scheme of things. Germany is known for running up the score if they get the chance to do so (Alain Vigneault wouldn't like it, surely). And South American teams are known to occasional crashes if the game is flipped on them. Remember in the 2010 World Cup they (Germany) won 4–0 against an arguably better (than the 2014 semi final Brazil formation) Argentinian side in the quarter finals. Only difference there is Argentina never scored a consolation goal, so Klose couldn't be credited with a GWG.

 

[Nick Hansen]

Oh yes....Denmark? Yeah, we all know they're lagging behind considerably...No tv, let alone running water. For christ's sake!

 

[sr edler]

Hey, I was there with my wife and we swam in the central parts of the city and visited Christiania (not for drugs, I'm not that kind of person). It was 30 degrees Celsius and we ate some pizza. Football was the last thing on my mind.