Hockey's Future's Fall 2004 Organizational Ranking are up
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Aarex
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One word:DoobieDoobieDo said:
Lehtonen.
But I agree. Their forwards aren't as strong as their goalie/defence.
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210
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19bruins19 said:
Very true...
Plus they have Coburn, Valabik, and Slater plus Painchaud could be pretty damn good and some of the others but they don't have a solid offensive player since Kovalchuk/Heatley graduated. They (being the Atlanta fans) scream that Slater will be but I'm not seeing a lot of quality depth up front for them and with their ranking on the blueline, some of them don't look good.
Great goaltending depth but IMO, they haven't really addressed their need up front, which makes them drop a bit.
I mean Schwarz is a phenominal goaltender, probably second tier to Lehtonen, Fleury, Bryzgalov, so I'm seeing a bit of a double standard there if Atlanta is high up but the Blues are in the bottom 10.
If it comes down to one prospect, Blues should be in the 11-20 range not 21-30 range...
Also I thought Schwarz was the next Hasek, hell if Schwarz can be half the goalie Hasek was in his prime, I would consider him a top-tier goaltender (top 10)...
IMO, it shows a bit of a double standard and some bias if Atlanta is still up in the top 10...
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Jason MacIsaac
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Very nice list....I was actually surprised NYI all that low. I thought they had a decent draft and many of thier prospects go under the radar because they stay in Europe so long.
While I am here.....Why isn't HFCHAT working. I need a key now.
While I am here.....Why isn't HFCHAT working. I need a key now.
It would be a lot closer to "scientific" if you had done it when we weren't in the middle of redoing our rating system. If you think what you did was helpful, why don't you try it again now that most of the teams are updated.DownFromNJ said:
Vlad The Impaler
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DownFromNJ said:
Wait, let me get this straight. You think you're linking people to something that is close to a scientific assessment?
Wow
Enoch
This is my boomstick
Chaos said:I think thats what does it right there
And I can agree with that. If an organization has decent depth but has a standout player, they will likely get rated higher then a team with maybe better depth and no standout players....and rightfully so. If you have a player like Ovechkin, etc.....then they are just on another level then other prospects. You almost KNOW they will succeed (not a guarantee, but certainly more than the general crapshoot involved with drafting players). If the organization ranking is contingent on how much the future prospect core could benefit teams in the NHL, then having a stud/superstar in the ranking should count for a tremendous amount in terms of sway.
I mean think of it like this - What would you trade to get an Ovechkin type prospect.....it would take almost the entire farm for some teams
. I hope that paints the idea of what I'm trying to portray.
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Jason MacIsaac
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Depth is often times overlooked when these rankings come out. I allways looked at Dallas, New Jersey and Ottawa when it came to organizational prospect depth. Neither NJ or Dallas usually have any standout star prospects but they can allways fill their holes. That should be woth something in these rankings.Enoch said:And I can agree with that. If an organization has decent depth but has a standout player, they will likely get rated higher then a team with maybe better depth and no standout players....and rightfully so. If you have a player like Ovechkin, etc.....then they are just on another level then other prospects. You almost KNOW they will succeed (not a guarantee, but certainly more than the general crapshoot involved with drafting players). If the organization ranking is contingent on how much the future prospect core could benefit teams in the NHL, then having a stud/superstar in the ranking should count for a tremendous amount in terms of sway.
I mean think of it like this - What would you trade to get an Ovechkin type prospect.....it would take almost the entire farm for some teams
X-SHARKIE
Registered User
I have to say, i'm quite impressed with the 21-30 teams...
I remember a couple of years ago when the Sharks were 30th....These things change folks, the Stars just went to the playoffs for the past how many years, except that one year they missed it...it's not secret why they are down low, and why teams like the Capitals who had 7 1st round picks, including one 1st overall, are up high. I also don't see whats wrong the Blues assesment.
Great list so far
I remember a couple of years ago when the Sharks were 30th....These things change folks, the Stars just went to the playoffs for the past how many years, except that one year they missed it...it's not secret why they are down low, and why teams like the Capitals who had 7 1st round picks, including one 1st overall, are up high. I also don't see whats wrong the Blues assesment.
Great list so far
I wonder what spot the Bruins will be around. Probably 12th again, which is great. We have a lot of depth, but we lack first line winger potential. Our defence and goalies look great though.
Well that might make sence, if the Flames weren't so low with equal prospect Dion Phaneuf.19bruins19 said:
I remember the Flames being top 5 on these lists year after year a bit ago. Now that they are in the bottom ten, with Dion Phaneuf and a good stable of gritty two-way players (the flames style) I couldn't be more happy.X-SHARKIE said:
JasonMacIsaac said:
Well said. I think they focus way too much on the "name prospects". And speaking for the Stars, much like St. Louis here, we dont have many posters to ever mention any of our prospects, nor do we have a writer to put out articles and such like most of the other teams do.
Winston Wolf
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Calling Dion Phaneuf and Kari Lehtonen "equal prospects" is highly debatable.MrMastodonFarm said:
X-SHARKIE
Registered User
The list in a hole is really just for show and it's a good fun list to read, and helps people who don't know much about prospects, understand who is where ect. and how good their favorite team ranks.
I don't argue people who get angry saying Ericksson is going to be great ect. Because they may very well be right.
Two years ago me and the rest of the Sharks fans knew what we had in Ehrhoff, a 4th round pick in 2001, and now everyone is starting to see world class skill he has for his age group.
when well the next 11-20 be anounced?
I don't argue people who get angry saying Ericksson is going to be great ect. Because they may very well be right.
Two years ago me and the rest of the Sharks fans knew what we had in Ehrhoff, a 4th round pick in 2001, and now everyone is starting to see world class skill he has for his age group.
when well the next 11-20 be anounced?
Dave is a killer
Dave's a Mess
Prussian_Blue
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flyers guy said:
Why?
Because of all the writers who contributed to the rankings, only one -- me -- has any real degree of familiarity with those players and their capabilities?
Not to say that the other writers don't know what they're talking about when it comes to the Blues' prospects, but a part of my write-up for the article (which got cut for space reasons, I guess) was that the biggest weakness in the Blues' system was the perception that everyone has of the team being a poor drafting and developing organization.
A poster on the Blues' board made an eloquent statement about that perception -- and how wrong it is -- by pointing out that, the year before Barret Jackman won the Calder Trophy, he was ranked only the #50 prospect in the league at this site.
The Blues drafted and developed Ladislav Nagy, who didn't get any respect here or anywhere else as long as he was a Blues' chattel.
Mike Van Ryn was a "can't-miss" NHL prospect when property of New Jersey. As soon as the Blues' signed him as a free agent, however, all of a sudden Van Ryn wasn't such a hot property any more.
Sorry, but as long as I'm the Blues' page writer, the Blues' prospect rankings stay as they are. I realize this won't get them included in some Jersey fan's "close to scientific" ranking, but I think I can live with the shame. I'll settle for being right about seeing Shkotov, Soderberg, Byrne, Bacashihua, Backes, Alexandrov, Zakharov, Schwarz, Wideman, et. al. contributing at the NHL level in five years...
Prussian_Blue
Registered User
Seven_Nation_Army said:
That would make Lehtonen just slightly less than godlike, then... since Dion Phaneuf is a darn fine defenseman that any organization would be glad to have.
Lethonen's a great prospect, no doubt about it. But "ten times the player" Phaneuf is? I don't think so...
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