Hockey's Future Top 50 Prospects Spring 2006: 1-10

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Ziggy Stardust

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The language between PROSPECT and ROOKIE seems to be worlds apart to certain individuals here. Look up what the words actually mean.

ROOKIE
- An untrained or inexperienced recruit, as in the army or police.
- An inexperienced person; a novice.
- Sports. A first-year player, especially in a professional sport.

PROSPECT
- Something expected; a possibility.
- A candidate deemed likely to succeed.

The NHL's definition of a rookie,
Rookie Qualifications
To be considered a rookie, a player must not have played in 25 or more NHL games in any preceding seasons, nor in six or more NHL games in each of any two preceding seasons. Any player at least 26 years of age (by September 15th of that season) is not considered a rookie.

A player's rookie status, games played in and age determines a prospect here on HF, correct? Similar to the criteria the NHL uses to determine a rookie, only the cutoff age on HF is younger.

Sure, there are prospects outside the NHL that are better than some rookies in the NHL, but the original discussion is between two rookies in the NHL drafted a year apart, with about 2 years of separation in age. A petty and juvenile attempt by some fans to defend their favorite players.
 

Seph

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DrMoses said:
Just because AO hits doesn't make him a better two way player.

Crosby has played well in his own and and has shown he's not afraid to hit either. Plus he controls the puck more and makes more room for his teammates.

It's even.
He may not be afraid to hit, but he's not as good at it. I never stated Ovechkin is a better defensive player because he hits. I simply find his defensive play to be stronger than Crosby's.

You may think it's even, and you are of course entitled to that. I simply disagree, and it looks like the writers of this list disagree also. I think both are fair opinions, cases can be made for either and the difference between who is the better prospect is very marginal. What I most disagree with are the people calling this list a joke because it has Ovechkin higher.
 

Charge_Seven

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Seph said:
He may not be afraid to hit, but he's not as good at it. I never stated Ovechkin is a better defensive player because he hits. I simply find his defensive play to be stronger than Crosby's.

You may think it's even, and you are of course entitled to that. I simply disagree, and it looks like the writers of this list disagree also. I think both are fair opinions, cases can be made for either and the difference between who is the better prospect is very marginal. What I most disagree with are the people calling this list a joke because it has Ovechkin higher.

I'll take your side on this.

I'll be the first to admit that I had an inability to respect how good Ovechkin was because of my limited time seeing him prior to joining the NHL, and because Crosby was Canadian. However, after seeing both of them, it seems to me that Ovechkin is simply better in nearly all regards (I'll take Crosby's passing over Ovechkin's, but who does Ovechkin have to pass to?).

I used to be a Crosby man, but Ovechkin has turned me.

On the flip side, I will say this, Crosby still has time before he matures to Ovechkin's level, so in the future, who knows, but as of now, I'll take Ovechkin and will not worry that I made the wrong choice.

Ovechkin is #1--in nearly every way.
 

KariyaIsGod*

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Ziggy Stardust said:
Ovechkin and Crosby aren't A and B prospects with X potential. People are aware of their potential and they have fulfilled the hype to a certain extent and are going to get better. I stated the difficulty a European has assimilating to a new environment. It is silly for people to think it is easier for Ovechkin to be productive because he is two years older than Crosby. Is a player in his 30's who can net 80+ points worse than a player in his late 20's who can score 60+ points?

By HF's definitions, both Ovechkin and Crosby are prospects. I could care less about who is #1 or #2. I enjoy watching both rookies, have them both on my fantasy team and am not a fan of either club they play for. I don't care if Crosby is from Canada or if Ovechkin is from Russia. The point is that it goes beyond a slight difference in age that makes a prospect better.

Not at all.
 
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KariyaIsGod*

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Seph said:
He may not be afraid to hit, but he's not as good at it. I never stated Ovechkin is a better defensive player because he hits. I simply find his defensive play to be stronger than Crosby's.

You may think it's even, and you are of course entitled to that. I simply disagree, and it looks like the writers of this list disagree also. I think both are fair opinions, cases can be made for either and the difference between who is the better prospect is very marginal. What I most disagree with are the people calling this list a joke because it has Ovechkin higher.

We're going to have to agree to disagree then.
 

Sammy*

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Ziggy Stardust said:
The difference we were discussing was 2 years. You brought up Makarov and 26 year old prospects in comparision to players who were drafted a year apart. Clever thinking.

Is it possible to find out how Crosby will be performing as a 20 year old? Is it possible to predict what the Penguins roster will look like in 2 years? Is it possible to predict how much better Ovechkin will get?

Perhaps you should evaluate your logic before posting baseless arguements and adding nothing to this discussion.
Interesting logic. 2 years doesnt make a difference when discussing 18 & 20 year olds (try telling that to a kid in the WHL :biglaugh: :biglaugh: ) & the calder winner is the best prospect.
Dont quit your day job to become a scout.
 

Seph

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DrMoses said:
We're going to have to agree to disagree then.
Which is fine by me. The only part I'd really like you to agree with me on is that it's not a joke to have Ovechkin higher. It's a valid choice, just as having Crosby ahead would've been valid.
 

Sammy*

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Seph said:
The only part I'd really like you to agree with me on is that it's not a joke to have Ovechkin higher. It's a valid choice, just as having Crosby ahead would've been valid.
I agree wholeheartedly with this statement. Anybody whio says otherwise isnt at all objective.
 

Ziggy Stardust

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Sammy said:
Interesting logic. 2 years doesnt make a difference when discussing 18 & 20 year olds (try telling that to a kid in the WHL :biglaugh: :biglaugh: ) & the calder winner is the best prospect.
Dont quit your day job to become a scout.

:shakehead
This discussion is about Ovechkin as a 20 year old compared to Crosby as an 18 year old. I don't know what point you are trying to prove since it doesn't seem like you have much of an argument to back it up.

Would you take an 18 year old playing against other kids in juniors over a 20 year old rookie with 36 goals and 69 points in his first NHL season? From what you are saying, that appears to be what you are alluding to. Two years makes a difference if both players are in juniors, and the 18 year old is ahead in his development over the 20 year old. But the 20 year old rookie in discussion is Ovechkin.

So going with your theory, an 18 year old doing well in juniors is better than a 20 year old having a big impact in the NHL. Show me some numbers or facts to prove your baseless theory. Your sad attempt to discredit Ovechkin brought nothing to this discussion other than polluting these boards with more garbage.

Thanks for blessing the boards with your knowledge and sharing your scouting skills with the rest of us. You've enlightened me with your irrelevancy. :biglaugh:
 

Sammy*

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Ziggy Stardust said:
:shakehead
This discussion is about Ovechkin as a 20 year old compared to Crosby as an 18 year old. I don't know what point you are trying to prove since it doesn't seem like you have much of an argument to back it up.

Would you take an 18 year old playing against other kids in juniors over a 20 year old rookie with 36 goals and 69 points in his first NHL season? From what you are saying, that appears to be what you are alluding to. Two years makes a difference if both players are in juniors, and the 18 year old is ahead in his development over the 20 year old. But the 20 year old rookie in discussion is Ovechkin.

So going with your theory, an 18 year old doing well in juniors is better than a 20 year old having a big impact in the NHL. Show me some numbers or facts to prove your baseless theory. Your sad attempt to discredit Ovechkin brought nothing to this discussion other than polluting these boards with more garbage.
Ha ha ha. Nice point. I never said that. Thats something you would say.

Thanks for blessing the boards with your knowledge and sharing your scouting skills with the rest of us. You've enlightened me with your irrelevancy. :biglaugh:
This is toooo easy. In your world a player doesnt do a ton of maturing in their late teens to early 20's. Hilarious. For some reason you sem to be unable to comprehend this. It makes no difference whether the guy is in the NHL or in Juniors, the fact is most kids improve a ton in this time frame. I can tell you are not up to logic on this issue, so I'll just call it a day with you & remember your inability to comprehend simple facts.
 

Ziggy Stardust

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Sammy said:
This is toooo easy. In your world a player doesnt do a ton of maturing in their late teens to early 20's. Hilarious. For some reason you sem to be unable to comprehend this. It makes no difference whether the guy is in the NHL or in Juniors, the fact is most kids improve a ton in this time frame. I can tell you are not up to logic on this issue, so I'll just call it a day with you & remember your inability to comprehend simple facts.

I already stated in my previous response that IF an 18 year old and 20 year old are both in the juniors, then the 18 year old has a better development window, but once again you fail to grasp that the discussion is Ovechkin. When are you going to learn to read?

If it is too easy, where are the facts, where are the numbers? I appreciate you dodging the issue and topic at hand, which is the discussion of Ovechkin as a 20 year old, but you are avoiding that fact and have provided not a single shred of relevance to this discussion. Thanks for wasting our time having to sift through more crap rather than having a decent and civil conversation regarding the top 50 list.

Next time you should brush up on your homework, improve your reading comprehension and do some research before entering into a debate. I understand your defense to get out of this discussion seeing how you have no substance to provide and I have to repeatedly repeat to you that we are discussing a 20 year old Ovechkin, not just any 20 year old.

How many 18 year olds out there could be as good (or better) than Ovechkin is as a 20 year old? Is it possible for Crosby and/or Malkin to be as good? It sure is. But at the same time, we don't even know how much better Ovechkin will get. And AS OF TODAY, Ovechkin has proven to be the better player.

I will graciously bow out of this discussion now since it appears that a stubborn individual can't comprehend the discussion at hand.
 

EroCaps

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Sammy said:
This is toooo easy. In your world a player doesnt do a ton of maturing in their late teens to early 20's. Hilarious. For some reason you sem to be unable to comprehend this. It makes no difference whether the guy is in the NHL or in Juniors, the fact is most kids improve a ton in this time frame. I can tell you are not up to logic on this issue, so I'll just call it a day with you & remember your inability to comprehend simple facts.

It's also true that different players mature at different rates. Period. It's absurd to me that people are willing to peg what a guy will do two years from now, and call out those skeptical.

I question the specifics, you want to make banal generalizations. *Where will Crosby improve significantly?* is my question.
 

Jaded-Fan

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EroCaps you miss the central point. No one is saying that Crosby, or any other 18 year old for that matter, will automatically outgrow the 20 year old. What is being said is that if the two are fairly close, and these two are with Ovechkin with the slight edge, you have to like your chances if you had to choose one going with the 18 year old. But no guarentees. Unless I misread you I think that what we both are saying is not far off from one another - absent the like your chances part of course.
 

Sammy*

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Ziggy Stardust said:
I already stated in my previous response that IF an 18 year old and 20 year old are both in the juniors, then the 18 year old has a better development window, but once again you fail to grasp that the discussion is Ovechkin. When are you going to learn to read?

If it is too easy, where are the facts, where are the numbers? I appreciate you dodging the issue and topic at hand, which is the discussion of Ovechkin as a 20 year old, but you are avoiding that fact and have provided not a single shred of relevance to this discussion. Thanks for wasting our time having to sift through more crap rather than having a decent and civil conversation regarding the top 50 list.

Next time you should brush up on your homework, improve your reading comprehension and do some research before entering into a debate. I understand your defense to get out of this discussion seeing how you have no substance to provide and I have to repeatedly repeat to you that we are discussing a 20 year old Ovechkin, not just any 20 year old.

How many 18 year olds out there could be as good (or better) than Ovechkin is as a 20 year old? Is it possible for Crosby and/or Malkin to be as good? It sure is. But at the same time, we don't even know how much better Ovechkin will get. And AS OF TODAY, Ovechkin has proven to be the better player.

I will graciously bow out of this discussion now since it appears that a stubborn individual can't comprehend the discussion at hand.
Ovechkin has proven to be a better player, as of now. . :biglaugh: :biglaugh:
Well, now its clear that your opinion is about as worthy as the logic you employed to suggest that an 18 year old does not have generally have much more room to improve than a 20 year old, irrespective of whatever league he is playing in.
Of course, you were the guy saying the best rookie is the best prospect. :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:
 

daver

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Ziggy Stardust said:
I already stated in my previous response that IF an 18 year old and 20 year old are both in the juniors, then the 18 year old has a better development window, but once again you fail to grasp that the discussion is Ovechkin. When are you going to learn to read?

If it is too easy, where are the facts, where are the numbers? I appreciate you dodging the issue and topic at hand, which is the discussion of Ovechkin as a 20 year old, but you are avoiding that fact and have provided not a single shred of relevance to this discussion. Thanks for wasting our time having to sift through more crap rather than having a decent and civil conversation regarding the top 50 list.

Next time you should brush up on your homework, improve your reading comprehension and do some research before entering into a debate. I understand your defense to get out of this discussion seeing how you have no substance to provide and I have to repeatedly repeat to you that we are discussing a 20 year old Ovechkin, not just any 20 year old.

How many 18 year olds out there could be as good (or better) than Ovechkin is as a 20 year old? Is it possible for Crosby and/or Malkin to be as good? It sure is. But at the same time, we don't even know how much better Ovechkin will get. And AS OF TODAY, Ovechkin has proven to be the better player.

I will graciously bow out of this discussion now since it appears that a stubborn individual can't comprehend the discussion at hand.

Since you and Sammy can't seem to understand each other, let me ask you one question. Ovechkin is better than Crosby this year, but does Crosby have the potential to be the better player as they both move into the prime of their careers?
If you think it is more than likely he will not be better than Ovechkin, then Ovechkin is the better prospect, if you think it is more than likely Crosby will develop into the better player, then Crosby is the better prospect.
 

CrimsonHawk

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It's too bad Carle was on the just missed section. He is gonna be a great nhl player and i'm surprised he wasn't ranked higher. The way Carle can control on both ends of the ice is going to make him a defensive threat on San Jose.

CarleForHobey.com
 
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