Hockey's Future Mid-season Organizational Rankings (11-20) posted

[Jacob]

There's no way that the Capitals are top 10. No way.

 

[Evilo]

If volumes wins out, I fully expect the Penguins to be ranked first.
In any case, I think the Panthers a re a bit low, same with the Flyers. Their top 2 forward prospects and the good tender prospect should qualify them for better than they are ranked here.
The Nucks' prospects depth is not that great IMO and they should be lower Calgary.
I also think Edmonton doesn't belong in the top 10 if some teams like Calgary or Nashville are out of it.

 

[Evilo]

There's no way that the Capitals are top 10. No way.

Agreed.

 

[stardog]

Regardless of the Kings Ranking two things should be clear.

The first is that Brown is STILL A PROSPECT you cannot tell me that a 18 year old kid after less then 30 games is all of a sudden a full NHL player.

The second is that Cammerelli is STILL A PROSPECT. How is it that a guy with less then 2 years of pro experience and who is playing in the AHL is all of a sudden no longer a prospect? The kid is like 22 years old.

It makes no sense to make Brown not a prospect after less then 30 games in the NHL.

I find it a little strange that the writer would claim that the Kings are lacking a sure fire top six forward and yet seems to have forgotten BROWN. Sure both Cammerelli and Tambellini have been a little over-hyped but not Brown he looks and acts like a second coming of Deadmarsh.

Even more strange is why would anyone in the world think that Brady Murray or Petr Kanko are not risky prospects? Murray has some skill but for anyone to say he is a low risk prospect is simply not looking closely at the player.

As for the lack of a goalie. Well can't have everything.

I think the key word is "sure fire" and Brown, while a very good prospect ( iagree that he is a prospect), is not a "sure fire" top six forward. You even said yourself he has less than 30 games, which isn't enough time to say he is that top six guy. So to say he will be a sure fire (that is definite) top six forward isn't the case.
He has a good shot of getting there, but he isn't a absolute to make it.
For that matter it is very rare that you can call any prospect a sure fire guy after 30 games.

 

[Legionnaire]

I think the key word is "sure fire" and Brown, while a very good prospect ( iagree that he is a prospect), is not a "sure fire" top six forward. You even said yourself he has less than 30 games, which isn't enough time to say he is that top six guy. So to say he will be a sure fire (that is definite) top six forward isn't the case.
He has a good shot of getting there, but he isn't a absolute to make it.
For that matter it is very rare that you can call any prospect a sure fire guy after 30 games.

That's a fair assessment. Brown is a sure fire NHL'er(barring serious injury) but maybe not a top six foward. Then again, how many of these fowards are "sure-fire"? You can look back at a lot of drafts and see top picks that haven't had near the sucess as later ones.

Anyway thanks for the work HF staff. I'm not too disappointed. I'm just hoping that our prospects end up producing far better than they did on paper.

 

[DutchLeafsfan]

How many other teams sent 3 youngsters to the AHL all-star game? 4, but does Curtis Murphy really count? *career AHLer*

Leafs: Wellwood, Colaiacovo, Hedin

While I applaud the effort of making this list, I have a hard time agreeing with it. The first major, and fundamental problem with this is that players are way too quickly considered to be graduated. This way, teams do in fact get penalized for their players making the NHL. Take for instance the Leafs (and they are by no means the only one), where Matt Stajan made the team and had to be taken off the list. Had he been slightly worse and not made the team, he would still have been on the list, which would then probably had been considered better (don't know about placings, but at least as far as quality goes). I find this to be rather rediculous, and to me that makes this list more a "Rankings of the teams who have the best looking prospects who are not yet good enough for the NHL", rather than an "Organisational rankings". When looking at organisational rankings, one has to consider the way in which prospects are developed, hence it would be better to look at the players drafted over several years, see how they have developed etc. and hence include graduated players, rather than simply look at the players which fit the rather narrow prospect criteria. (This criteria seems to have been changed last year as well; previously Ilya Kovalchuk was considered graduated after finishing his first season on the Flames, right now any player who has a pretty regular spot on his team is already considered graduated)

That said I get the idea that some organisations contrary to other have been ranked based on their reputation. Take the Sens for instance, who have in general been very good at developing talent. They have also been hit fairly hard by the graduation problem, and what has left is a nice group but nothing that would merit 10th overall IMO, yet they did get this position. Likewise the Wings, who have been able to find several late round steals, but whose prospect group features two question marks (Grigorenko and Hudler), a pretty good (but not top) defensive prospect and a pretty good (but not very special) goaltending prospect. Nothing that would result them into getting 15th place. For the rest Dallas seems to be way too high, I fail too see how Vancouver is any better than Toronto (at least when not using this rather questionable graduation practice), find the Ducks and Bruins rather high,. On the other hand it appears to me that the Kings, Hawks, Flames and to a somewhat lesser extent Preds have been put far too low.

As for the Leafs on the last list, I did expect them to take a hit after trading Boyes and not having a first rounder; however a ten place drop is excessive to say the least. There are quite a few more than 4 organisations which have a worse prospect pool. On the other list I found the Flyers and Panthers drops to be rather excessive as well btw...

 

[sveiglar]

I'm surprised the Devils will be ranked in the top 10. That's pretty cool considering Martin and Hale graduated this year. I guess that the emergence of Suglobov and Pihlman in Albany is bigger than I thought.

My thoughts EXACTLY. I figured 15-19 for sure after seeing that they weren't in the bottom third. Parise and Ahonen are a great 1-2 prospect punch, but I'm surprised that (obviously) Suglobov and Pihlman have gotten that much credit. I guess Kadeykin figures in there too, along with the second-tier NCAA posse (Tallackson/Ryznar/Massen/Voros).

Still, surprising nonetheless.

 

[Motown Beatdown]

The problem i have with the Wings ranking is they are putting to much stock in Tomas Kopecky. Jim Nills has dropped him down to the 15th rated prospect within the Wings.

http://www.freep.com/sports/redwings/pprgiz8_20040108.htm

 

[ceber]

Well they aren't the worse but they aren't the best, guys like well Popovic, Stuart, Klein (ummm that's kind of reaching but all right) are a lot better off. Problem I really see with this is only really high drafted guys (1st, 2nd rounds) are getting listed as top prospects.

I was looking just at MN. I'd assume that anyone not listed on the MN page is considered to be a worse prospect than those listed in their position.

 

[Aaron Vickers]

I was looking just at MN. I'd assume that anyone not listed on the MN page is considered to be a worse prospect than those listed in their position.

Or perhaps there isn't a bio created on the Wild page for Courchaine.

 

[ceber]

Or perhaps there isn't a bio created on the Wild page for Courchaine.

Ok, I'll buy that. The Wild page hasn't had anyone looking after it for a while, I guess.

 

[triggrman]

So who did the Nashville review? That guy from Buffalo, again? I think it's too funny. When it comes to Nashville Hockey's future doesn't have a clue.

 

[SmokeyClause]

So who did the Nashville review? That guy from Buffalo, again? I think it's too funny. When it comes to Nashville Hockey's future doesn't have a clue.

We need to step up and get it done. Someone from our boards has to be able to do it. We cannot expect HFSabresEditor to do it all.

 

[Bookman]

Hey, glad to see the Wild crack the top 20!

 

[triggrman]

You're the journalism student, Smokey, get it done.

 

[Mothra]

There's no way that the Capitals are top 10. No way.

sour grapes...?

Off the top of my head.......they seem to have 4 guys with top end talent

Ouellet
Semin
Eminger
Fehr

and then guys like Werner (played great in WJC), Stana (AHL All-Star), Yonkman, Johansson, the other Max, etc.....

The only thing they are missing is a potential #1 center...and they have decent center prospects...just no real stud

 

[Flames Draft Watcher]

The CGY write up was done by a Calgarian in fact.

Phaneuf puts up numbers but I wouldn't call him an offensive defenceman either. He has a great shot from the point but he's not a Phil Housley or a Scott Niedermeyer. I don't think it's a insult to call him a defensive d-man... maybe a defensive d-man with offensive upside? Better?

So if he's not an offensive defensemen that makes him a "stay at home defensemen"?

Sorry but I can't agree with that. Stay at home defensemen are called the because they DON'T jump into the play, they don't score a lot of points or goals and generally only concentrate on the defensive aspect.

That does not describe Ramholt or Phaneuf. Sorry but it's a bad mistake. If the writer had said, "two-way defensemen" I'd have no problem. But either the writer misunderstands the term "stay at home defensemen" or doesn't really know these two prospects. You want a stay at home defensemen in the Flames system? That's Mike Commodore.

 

[MePutPuckInNet]

Bolduc and Misharin are long shots but they will help on depth for the moment...Which brings us to the next point. Scoring. The Wild are the leagues worst at scoring or close to it, especially with Gaborik and Dupuis having an off year. Bouchard is taking a very long time, which is fine and Burns will too. Koivu isn't going to put the puck in the net, but only O'Sullivan will. This is where it hurts the Wild. They won't be able to piece together really two good lines if their prospects don't work out right. They need to draft another sniper. O'Sullivan will also move to the wings. Foy is a toss up, having a bad year with injuries and sickness down in Houston, so he's a mystery player...Wallin. I'll be labeled a homer but everywhere I read this guy has Sedin written all over him. A bit lanky, tall, good skater, and can both score and set up plays but nothing extraordinary, Wallin has the potential to be a Zholtok type of player that the Wild like and probably need. A versatile and well used winger/center they can insert in their lineup. I consider Wallin to be the top prospect. After O'Sullivan and Koivu to make the team, Wallin is the next guy, yes even over Foy.

StonedK- Kind of agree with some of your thoughts and opinions,,,,but I don't understand why you keep pushing O'Sullivan off to the wing? Maybe you haven't seen him play, I don't know, but he's a center for sure - and that's what the Wild picked him for. He may start at wing, just to get used to the whole NHL experience, but he's got way too much talent as a center to not use him in that capacity.

Not sure about Wallin, you might be right. I like Foy, too. He has had a down year so far, but I think alot of that is due to health issues. Once he's back to form, I'd expect him to really take off, although I agree, it might take him another year in Houston to prove himself.

As far as defensemen - one to watch, in my opinion, is Georgi Misharin presently playing for the Saginaw Spirit. He was on the Russian team for the U-18 had 2 assists and had a +8. He currently has 12 pts in 48 games (3 g, 9 a). Hell, that's better than some of the Wild's forwards.....(kidding, kind of). Not saying he'll make it next year or anything, I'm just thinking that he might have alot more potential than most think. Plus, his being coached by Moe Mantha will do him some good. Moe has been playing him alot more is liking what he sees in the kid, so he might be a good surprise down the road.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Because if you watch the Wild, you will know they like to push the guys with strong offensive abilities to the wing. Pierre-Marc Bouchard was drafted as a center and most people think he was going to be a center but the Wild have specifically stated that Bouchard is going to be a winger. The Wild like using very solid two way players, guys that work hard on defense but can contribute somewhat to the offense down the center. Koivu stands out because he works hard on defense and chips in a few points here and there. O'Sullivan can flat out score but he won't be given the chance if he's slotted down the center because he'll have to join the defense on the forecheck. If you also see the Wild, they have some good character centers, guys that would be on the 4th line, that the Wild could possibly use on their front lines as shut down centers. Simply putting it, slotting a guy like O'Sullivan opposite of guys like Gaborik and Koivu and then letting him set up Gaborik or have Koivu set him up would be a knock-out punch. I just think that Lemaire is going to have O'Sullivan slotted on the wings and possibly keep him there for his career, like what he is doing to Bouchard. Bouchard had too much talent as a center too but the Wild said he wasn't going to get to use that talent if he was a center.

Wallin is a Zholtok type, I believe. He plays good defense though which is a plus. Foy has been a disappointment earlier in this season but he's starting to pick it up. I think you can partially write off this season for him and see how he does in his sophomore season. He played extremely well with Bouchard, so it'll be fun to see what they can do together.

I like Misharin too, because he's coming up quietly but as I said watch for Bolduc. Lower round draftee, was suppose to go in the higher rounds, could be a big sleeper for the Wild.

Also Kopriva, might want to watch what he does.

Oh and I forgot, Berzins is putting in a quiet but solid season for Louisiana this year. He's another center the Wild are bringing up one step at a time.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

sour grapes...?

Off the top of my head.......they seem to have 4 guys with top end talent

Ouellet
Semin
Eminger
Fehr

and then guys like Werner (played great in WJC), Stana (AHL All-Star), Yonkman, Johansson, the other Max, etc.....

The only thing they are missing is a potential #1 center...and they have decent center prospects...just no real stud

I would guess that most of those kids have "graduated" . Off the top of my head: Fehr, Other Max, Johansson (not having a breakout year), Yonkman (whose stock falls every season he sits out).

I don't get it.

 

[Mothra]

I would guess that most of those kids have "graduated" . Off the top of my head: Fehr, Other Max, Johansson (not having a breakout year), Yonkman (whose stock falls every season he sits out).

I don't get it.

as of right now...they are not on the "graduated" list...thats why I didnt add Gordon and Sutherby..they are on the list

guess we will see when the rest of the list is out

 

[ceber]

Because if you watch the Wild, you will know they like to push the guys with strong offensive abilities to the wing. Pierre-Marc Bouchard was drafted as a center and most people think he was going to be a center but the Wild have specifically stated that Bouchard is going to be a winger.

You make this sound too permanent. Lemaire's said he'll keep Bouchard at wing for quite a while, but he hasn't said he'll never be a center. The reason is primarily because Bouchard hasn't shown the skills yet (yet!) to handle the responsibilities of center in Lemaire's system. When/if we get a different coach, things could change pretty quickly. Also, if Bouchard progresses faster than expected, I bet we'd start to see him at center sooner than Lemaire's said. There are a lot of reasons to play our young, offensively talented, centers on the wing right now, but that doesn't mean they've been put in that role forever. I would bet that O'Sullivan will be handled the same way.

 

[Gumby]

There's no way that the Capitals are top 10. No way.

I'm a Caps fan and I agree. By the logic they've used so far Semin, Emminger, and (possibly) Boyd have graduated with nothing near that replacing them. I know they were 3 last year but Ouellet and an injured Yonkman aren't enough to keep 'em that high. I'm really curious to see the justification for this one.

 

[GodZillaAteMyZamboni]

I'm a Caps fan and I agree. By the logic they've used so far Semin, Emminger, and (possibly) Boyd have graduated with nothing near that replacing them. I know they were 3 last year but Ouellet and an injured Yonkman aren't enough to keep 'em that high. I'm really curious to see the justification for this one.

HF definition of prospect:
Hockey's Future: What Makes a Prospect?
Both Max's, Stana, Semin, Gordon, Yonkman, Johansson are all still prospects. Eminger graduated as of yesterday.

 

[Gumby]

I really think all this would be SO much easier if HF would just consider a kid a prospect until by using the NHL rules he's no longer a rookie.......that would end all this confusion and bickering. Besides, when guys like Semin (one of a ton of examples) isn't considered a prospect anymore just because he gets 9 mins a game when he even plays just isn't right. In reality is there anyone on here that doesn't still consider guys like Fleury, Horton, Zherdev, Lupul, and Staal still to be prospects?