Hockey's Biggest "What if"?

[crobro]

If Tony Hand didn’t get homesick.

If Gretzky ended up with Leafs in the team for team swap

If Ray Bourque played another 3/4 years

 

[YEM]

what if Pelle Lindbergh didn't drive that night? #sad

 

[DannyGallivan]

What if Lindros' shot goes inside the post in the '98 Olympic shootout against Hasek and Roy stops Reichel? Would Canada go on to win gold and the whole dramatic Salt Lake victory is never-to-be?

Further to those Olympics...
What if Paul Kariya isn't horribly gooned by Gary Suter during the season and forced to miss the Olympics AND/OR Joe Sakic doesn't injure his ankle in a meaningless game against Belarus.

One or both players are available against the Czechs. Canada either wins in regulation, or Sakic scores in the shootout. Outcome: Canada likely wins gold in '98.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

What if Bobby Orr rejected Boston and signed with either Detroit, Montreal or Toronto as a youth?

Orr on Montreal...are there any years from 1968-1978 that they don't win the Cup?

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

If those bacteria don't show up in Charlie Gardiner's throat in late 1932...

Hell- if they could have just delayed their appearance for 5-6 more years- and let the man play into his 30's.

I don't think a Black Hawks '3-peat' would have been out-of-the-question. They were certainly competitive in the two subsequent years- even with Lorne Chabot, and someone named Mike Karakis playing that position.

That said, I always wondered about the (non?)-treatment that Gardiner took. Of course, Penicillin wasn't an option yet- and I don't think Sulfa drugs were, either. Yet, it began in his tonsils- and tonsillectomy was a procedure back then. Ty Cobb famously had his tonsils removed by a barber of dubious competence- and would recover to a career of benchmark longevity.

Maybe Gardiner's enthusiasm for amateur singing made him reluctant to entertain such an operation(?) I just don't know.

 

[Whaleafs]

What if Kerry Fraser called Gretzky's high stick on Gilmour

 

[Ducks in a row]

What if the NHL had a 2005 Stanley Cup playoffs?

 

[Jim MacDonald]

What if Gretzky and Co. remained with the Oilers for the entirety of their careers? The damage Peter Pocklington did to hockey history....

Does hockey "expand" in "warm weather" climates if Gretzky never goes to the Kings? (e.g. No Sharks, Ducks, Panthers, Lightning)

 

[Killion]

Does hockey "expand" in "warm weather" climates if Gretzky never goes to the Kings? (e.g. No Sharks, Ducks, Panthers, Lightning)

That wouldve happened regardless. Expansion to Florida, Bay area. Ducks maybe not. Im 50/50 on that one. While not the most popular side of the opinion & argument I've always considered it a "myth" that Gretzky's landing in LA was responsible for the growth of the NHL & game in Florida, so called "SunBelt Experiment", a term that is pretty much a misnomer used by critics of NHL Expansion & Relocations (AZ, TX). He (Gretzky) certainly raised the profile of the Kings and sure, did inspire kids to take up the game (those who could afford it in warmer climes; and checkout those costs if you have the stomach). But to attribute all that some do to "The Trade" & the "Gretzky Factor", like he was a Genuine Rainmaker... not buyin. Overstated.

 

[TheAngryHank]

What if Dertoit didn't lose Jiri Fischer and Vladdy to career ending illness / injury ?
West dominated.

 

[Jim MacDonald]

That wouldve happened regardless. Expansion to Florida, Bay area. Ducks maybe not. Im 50/50 on that one. While not the most popular side of the opinion & argument I've always considered it a "myth" that Gretzky's landing in LA was responsible for the growth of the NHL & game in Florida, so called "SunBelt Experiment", a term that is pretty much a misnomer used by critics of NHL Expansion & Relocations (AZ, TX). He (Gretzky) certainly raised the profile of the Kings and sure, did inspire kids to take up the game (those who could afford it in warmer climes; and checkout those costs if you have the stomach). But to attribute all that some do to "The Trade" & the "Gretzky Factor", like he was a Genuine Rainmaker... not buyin. Overstated.

I don't know who was NHL commish at the time (Ziegler, Stein) etc but I remember seeing something that Bruce McNall kinda put the "bug in the ear" or something to that effect of having games played in "neutral" sites (e.g. Cleveland, Ohio). I guess with McNall landing Gretzky other owners wanted to listen to his ideas or something (because he became "big man on campus.") I don't know if McNall talked warm weather places too etc.

 

[Killion]

I don't know who was NHL commish at the time (Ziegler, Stein) etc but I remember seeing something that Bruce McNall kinda put the "bug in the ear" or something to that effect of having games played in "neutral" sites (e.g. Cleveland, Ohio). I guess with McNall landing Gretzky other owners wanted to listen to his ideas or something (because he became "big man on campus.") I don't know if McNall talked warm weather places too etc.

Yeah, he rapidly ascended the rungs in the NHL, becoming Chairman of the Expansion & Relocation Committee, weilding quite a bit of influence. And yes, that was his doing, the pre-season neutral site games and yes again.... staged in warm weather climes, Florida, outdoor game in Vegas & so on. Part of a grander "Expansion Plan", one designed to finally produce an NBA like Broadcast Contract which it never really did.. He also pressed for the hiring of Gary Bettman, requiring cost certainty as did most of the rest of the BOG's. Rough times for many, survival instincts kicking in. The League in quite the mess late 80's early 90's. Bettman the architect in some respects, lead negotiator while with the NBA, Labor Lawyer so McNall figured perfect choice. Much of what he did, came up with copied from the NBA model. League size included.

 

[insomniac]

What if Pavel Bure's knee had stayed healthy?

 

[crobro]

What if harry Ornest didn’t buy the St Louis Blues for 10 cents on the dollar and walked away.

 

[CharlestownChiefsESC]

What if Pavel Bure's knee had stayed healthy?

Big question as a Ranger fan, the biggest problem in 05-06 was the team was 1 dimensional with Jagr. If they had a 1-2 punch of Jagr and Bure I think they could have made the ECF that year.

 

[Hoser]

Yeah, he rapidly ascended the rungs in the NHL, becoming Chairman of the Expansion & Relocation Committee, weilding quite a bit of influence.

... and by 1992, chairman of the Board of Governors itself. (A post he resigned about a year-and-a-half later after he defaulted on $90,000,000 loans.)

I agree with you: expansion would have happened anyway. People like to believe that the Gretzky trade raised hockey's profile (which it almost certainly did) and Bettman therefore okayed the expansion to "the sunbelt", but the truth is likely far less dramatic: the owners saw empty arenas and dollar signs. They followed the money.

(They always follow the money. That's why the North Stars, Nordiques, Jets and Whalers moved.)

 

[Killion]

... and by 1992, chairman of the Board of Governors itself. (A post he resigned about a year-and-a-half later after he defaulted on $90,000,000 loans.)

I agree with you: expansion would have happened anyway. People like to believe that the Gretzky trade raised hockey's profile (which it almost certainly did) and Bettman therefore okayed the expansion to "the sunbelt", but the truth is likely far less dramatic: the owners saw empty arenas and dollar signs. They followed the money.

Yeah, briefly Chair of the BOG's as well.... and yes, they needed the $$$, followed where it led, classic cases of Checkbook Expansion, pay the fixed price, you dont dicker, then justified with some logic but primarily emotion thereafter. Not in every case of course but in some.

 

[Hoser]

...they needed the $$$, followed where it led, classic cases of Checkbook Expansion, pay the fixed price, you dont dicker, then justified with some logic but primarily emotion thereafter. Not in every case of course but in some.

Mm-hmm. People should read up on how the Senators and Lightning were founded. The owners didn't give a damn where the money came from just as long as the cheques cleared.

 

[Killion]

Mm-hmm. People should read up on how the Senators and Lightning were founded. The owners didn't give a damn where the money came from just as long as the cheques cleared.

Bingo. Ottawa with its Brass Bonanza, arena in the middle of nowhere.... Phil Esposito's financial backers pulling out as the approval process is unwinding, left scrambling to find a replacement, no arena, sweating bullets, securing it through a rather shady supposed "golf course & resort developer" with apparent ties to the Japanese Yakuza... Neither applicant balking at the $50M price tag & so thusly awarded Expansion Teams while denying Hamilton, Ron Joyce, founder & owner of Tim Hortons; Peter Karmanos who was also bidding for Tampa but in both of those cases trying to dicker, offering $25M & denied... Heavyweight applicants who's status changed not long after being approved in creating the Panthers & Thrashers gone, throwing both franchises into complete & utter Swan Dives; one deliberately run on to the rocks, the other while stable at the moment has gone through an awful lot of grief, arena again middle of nowhere Alligator Alley, Sunrise. They along with Ottawa not out of the woods even still. Nashville. Mind numbing. Close calls. On & on.

 

[Hoser]

The worst part about snubbing Karmanos's bid was that Espo spent a lot of time submarining it by arguing how terrible the Florida Suncoast Dome, later the Thunderdome, was for hockey—even though he's the one who had orchestrated an exhibition game there in 1990. Karmanos secured an exclusive lease agreement that forbade Esposito's group from playing there. The Lightning played at the state fairgrounds their first season... and then leased the Suncoast Dome!

Esposito had no money backing his bid until the mysterious Japanese group stepped in days before he presented to the NHL. He had no lease to an arena, and no definitive plans for a new one. He crapped all over the Suncoast Dome as a potential venue. But, he agreed to pay the $5,000,000 up front and rest of the $50,000,000 expansion fee on schedule, so his bid won.

To this day, as far as anyone can tell, the Japanese firm Kokusai Green had no other assets than its ownership of the Lightning, and no one can confirm whether nominal owner Takashi Okubo ever even existed. Nothing had been proven in court as far as I know, but it seems everyone else involved suspected it was just a Yakuza money-laundering front.


I think whether Gretzky went to LA or not is pretty much irrelevant to the story: it has always been about money, and the NHL was notoriously bad about vetting potential ownership groups. They don't care where the money comes from, as long as they get their 'cut'.

 

[Killion]

The worst part about snubbing Karmanos's bid was that Espo spent a lot of time submarining it by arguing how terrible the Florida Suncoast Dome, later the Thunderdome, was for hockey—even though he's the one who had orchestrated an exhibition game there in 1990. Karmanos secured an exclusive lease agreement that forbade Esposito's group from playing there. The Lightning played at the state fairgrounds their first season... and then leased the Suncoast Dome!

Esposito had no money backing his bid until the mysterious Japanese group stepped in days before he presented to the NHL. He had no lease to an arena, and no definitive plans for a new one. He crapped all over the Suncoast Dome as a potential venue. But, he agreed to pay the $5,000,000 up front and rest of the $50,000,000 expansion fee on schedule, so his bid won.

To this day, as far as anyone can tell, the Japanese firm Kokusai Green had no other assets than its ownership of the Lightning, and no one can confirm whether nominal owner Takashi Okubo ever even existed. Nothing had been proven in court as far as I know, but it seems everyone else involved suspected it was just a Yakuza money-laundering front.


I think whether Gretzky went to LA or not is pretty much irrelevant to the story: it has always been about money, and the NHL was notoriously bad about vetting potential ownership groups. They don't care where the money comes from, as long as they get their 'cut'.

....... yep.... that all be true & then some.... he also had history with Karmanos pursuant to the Soo Greyhounds & Eric Lindros... who several years before the Quebec affair they Drafted despite being told he "Sorry, wont report, lack of appropriate educational facilities, too far from home" etc.... Espo like Aubut later charging ahead anyway so he could pad the franchises sale price with "The Next One" under Contract or at minimum holding his rights, denying in both cases they had any intention of selling off market and just on & on & on. Good old Cap'n Canada. Slippery as an eel.

 

[BadgerBruce]

What if Frank and Lester Patrick had decided to live comfortably off their father’s lumber fortune, never moved to the west coast, never started the PCHL ....... those boys are pretty much the creators of modern hockey as we know it. They gave us the blue line, the forward pass, goaltenders going down to make saves — I’ve read they are responsible for 22 current NHL rules.

Second what if: A violent snowstorm kept Lord Stanley of Preston home in Ottawa instead of with the kiddies at the Winter Carnival in Quebec .....would we have the Rideau Rebels? The Stanley Cup? Would his Lorship’s boys have turned to curling instead?

 

[Killion]

What if Frank and Lester Patrick had decided to live comfortably off their father’s lumber fortune, never moved to the west coast, never started the PCHL ....... those boys are pretty much the creators of modern hockey as we know it. They gave us the blue line, the forward pass, goaltenders going down to make saves — I’ve read they are responsible for 22 current NHL rules.

Second what if: A violent snowstorm kept Lord Stanley of Preston home in Ottawa instead of with the kiddies at the Winter Carnival in Quebec .....would we have the Rideau Rebels? The Stanley Cup? Would his Lorship’s boys have turned to curling instead?

... along with numbers on the backs of jerseys reputedly and, the introduction of the Farm System amongst other things. Setup as a "syndicate" with central, single ownership, having a rather fractious relationship initially with the NHA in its raiding of talent. Agreement eventually, whereby all elite amateurs east of Thunder Bay NHA property, west PCHA, a model that served the NHL years later with its member clubs as well being given territorial rights of propriety over the cultivation & development, "ownership" of talent.....

As the PCHA relates to the Stanley Cup, not so sure Lord Stanley of Preston would have approved as it was donated to be contested within the Dominion between the top amateur clubs on a challenge basis. It was during the early years of the elite amateur, semi-pro, professional teams & leagues that it was hijacked, particularly so by the NHA (then the NHL) & PCHA who had expanded into the US. Its believed the Cup Trustees "approved" of the assignment of the Cup to be Challenges between these 2 Pro Leagues "exclusively", and, that it would now become a "Worlds Championship" Cup given that it had crossed intl borders however.... Lord Stanley of Preston died in 1909 so we'll never know if he would have actually approved of any of this but if he'd lived & did not... who knows? The Allan Cup wouldnt Exist or if so in some other capacity....

 

[bobbyking]

Again, I agree (although he would still be looking up at Gordie).

No dominating a league with 30 teams would've been significantly more impressive. But it didn't happen

 

[DannyGallivan]

No dominating a league with 30 teams would've been significantly more impressive. But it didn't happen

After the top six, does it really matter how many teams you add on? Gordie would have dominated a six team league or a 100 team league.