Hockey wanted in hockey cities

[Transported Upstater]

Dear Moderators:

PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, LOCK THIS THREAD!

Sincerely,
TransportedUpstater

 

[Anton Babchuk]

And your point is what....that the viewership increased as *gasp* the series went along and got more interesting? That the viewership increased as *gasp* the team made it to the Finals?

How is that exclusive to the Raleigh market?

 

[dabid]

My two cents..

Who cares?

It's not like we can do anything about having hockey in Carolina, Florida, and Nashville. And hey, you never know, there might be a team in Winnipeg someday.

 

[Gnashville]

My two cents..

Who cares?

It's not like we can do anything about having hockey in Carolina, Florida, and Nashville. And hey, you never know, there might be a team in Winnipeg someday.

Winnipeg had a team and refused to do what was necessary (build a new arena) to keep it.

Let's play name the team (again)
These are the past yearly average attendance figures for a current NHL team.
13622
14293
14534
12858
14206
13626
11147
10446
10406
11002
13772
Name it!!
Is this a real hockey Market?
Would you relocate or contract this team based on these figures?

 

[dabid]

Notice the sarcasm smile, gnash.

 

[Gnashville]

Notice the sarcasm smile, gnash.

I saw it. I was just adding to your post and sarcasm.

 

[SharksDownUnder]

HOCKEY IS CANADA..... plain and simple

Die-hard Canadian hockey fans live & dream hockey... Die-hard American hockey fans live & dream hockey... I see absolutely no reason that even more American hockey fans can't become die-hard fans and live & dream hockey as well... IMO, there is nothing that goes into 'love for hockey' that separates Canadians from Americans, except being exposed to hockey and our respected teams for much longer... Evidence: Detroit, Chicago, Boston, NYR, NYI... What makes these US cities 'hockey markets' is that they've had hockey in these markets for many years - and therefore, they have many more die-hard fans... A 'hockey market', IMO, can be defined simply as how many die-hard fans for the team live within the geographical area - and therefore, follow and support their team during good and not-so-good times... I believe that there are die-hard Toronto fans who love the leafs... Die-hard Canuck fan who love the Canucks... and die-hard Carolina fans who love the Hurricanes... In time, there will be many more Carolina fans who love the Hurricanes... Give the franchise 30-years, and there is no reason that the Hurricanes can't have a following that resembles the best 'hockey markets' in the NHL... especially if the Hurricanes reach the Stanley Cup finals once every 4 years... A Father takes his kids to these Stanley Cup finals, and when the kids become adults, take their kids to the Stanley Cup finals, etc... We aren't born with 'love for hockey', it is learned... If we've had this 'love for hockey' since children, it can seem like we were born with it (as we've never really known life without it)... But we are born with the shape of our nose... the colour of our hair... not love for hockey...

How many years do we give a US hockey market before giving up on it? IMO, if it's a big US market (potential for huge revenue growth), we don't give up on it... We nurture it...

I agree.... living in SoCal for 6+ years... plenty of american's live and dream it.

You're right it comes to exposure and it has definitely grown in SoCal.... as I'm sure it appears to be happening in SoFL, and others Dallas/Phx.

I don't think we should give up on any market....if it can sustain itself financially. (Poor decisions/marketing/circumstances.... can affect a franchise and cause it to be moved - salaries -vs.- revenue/arena revenues etc.etc. - or just the attraction of another market... if the formulas aren't right - Pittsburg/Hartford/Quebec/Winnipeg)

Sometimes you wonder about the choices... but sometimes it's not just about the hockey.... as it's been stated it's a business.

Often we don't like to admit that .... however the hockey is a game... and players and fans do take it beyond the biz (some more than others.)

Look I believe that Canadian's and American's are equal in their passions. Especially when you're borne with it. Bostonians and Michiganites... or whatever you want to call them are hard core hockey fans and players. HOWEVER, ON A GENERAL NATIONAL BASIS... CANADIAN LIVE AND BREATHE HOCKEY... IT'S OUR NATIONAL SPORT.... OUR POLITICIANS/MUSICIANS/DR/LAWYERS/TEACHERS - follow it... you can feel the difference.... it's ALL Canadian's have.... CFL and MLB and NBA is NOT like hockey. Some might disagree... but I don't see how you could. You not be able to go into any bar/pub in Canada and not have a hockey game on ... on Saturday.

I've been in Vegas, and all over the US... on a weekend.... and you've had to pay off the bartender to change a screen to a hockey game... and it's you and the odd other bystander that would give it attention. High School Football would be the same as hockey in Canada.... it's amazing and quite impressive. In Canada... grandma's, sisters, mothers... and all would be keeping an eye on the action.... IT'S DIFFERENT!

My best mates were from both US and Can and we all supported the NHL from wherever our loyalties lied... or were being rooted. Some with mates we'd played with others that we'd grown up rooting for (rooting is a sport in itself downunder... )

 

[SharksDownUnder]

NHL = FRANCHISE BUSINESS.... clearly....

Yea, I don't know what happened with Chicago, an original 6 team, a hockey town, but the team is horrible, and people don't even care. It's said when the Chicago Wolves get more people coming to the games than the Hawks do. And personally hockey in the south is good, there are a lot of people down there, who could get into hockey.

Chicago is a great case for Canadian's too... TAKE note.....

The Wolves are well managed, marketed, and actually compete for a FAN.

However, the owner of the Hawks built the arena... and both the Hawks and the Bulls pay rent... plus the 200 + concerts and other events that would come to the Chicago area each year... so they aren't just focused on the fan... it's business. A shame but I think they are trying to turn their ship around... cause Chicago is a "hockeytown".... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Center

Now look at Carolina.... although not quite as impressive as the Chicago story... you can see the business side of this decision to come to a marketplace of "BASKETBALL NUTS... and build a state of the art facility.... with a reasonable fan base to build upon...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RBC_Center IT"S BLOODY REAL ESTATE and ENTERTAINMENT - HOCKEY is a small part here....but a strong part)

Get over it CANADA.... I'm Canadian... and I love Canada... and our passion for HOCKEY.... but American's are sports NUTS and it's BIG BUSINESS.....

Pull your heads out of down under.... and realise the economics.... Pittsburg needs a NEW arena or it's GONE... and PITTS has proven it's hockey history.

Dallas - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Center

Phoenix - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glendale_Arena

Tampa - look at what the owner of the TB lightning owns... LOL... TB isn't going anywhere.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Pete_Times_Forum

Florida - not sure of their interest in their arena... but it doesn't appear as juicy as some of the others.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Panthers

Nashville - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaylord_Entertainment_Center

Atlanta - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philips_Arena

Anahiem - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrowhead_Pond

I think we get the picture... it's the structure of the business that makes the team a viable option....

Anyways, I hope the NHL remains committed to promoting the game as a sport that can be attractive to all nations.... and cultures. The business side of it really will determine the "HEALTH" of the team and league.. FULL STOP

Because it is the "coolest game on earth"

 

[SharksDownUnder]

Dear Moderators:

PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, LOCK THIS THREAD!

Sincerely,
TransportedUpstater

I think it's a reasonable post/thread to be frank....

 

[Sotnos]

I think it's a reasonable post/thread to be frank....

That's because you haven't seen a thousand of these already, and they all turn out the same.

 

[Sotnos]

It's obvious that most of what I'm saying is way over your head

That's your best line yet, really. Get over yourself and your wishful thinking!

Timmy, your posts in this thread are golden, but trying to knock sense into this guy seems to be a total waste of time since he doesn't even acknowledge FACTS like what states have population growth.

Again, this thread is , maybe once we get a few more pages someone will notice it and it'll get closed.

 

[Timmy]

That's your best line yet, really. Get over yourself and your wishful thinking!

Timmy, your posts in this thread are golden, but trying to knock sense into this guy seems to be a total waste of time since he doesn't even acknowledge FACTS like what states have population growth.

Again, this thread is , maybe once we get a few more pages someone will notice it and it'll get closed.

Don't use me as a source.

I get all my stuff from The Daily Show.

 

[codswallop]

That's your best line yet, really. Get over yourself and your wishful thinking!

Timmy, your posts in this thread are golden, but trying to knock sense into this guy seems to be a total waste of time since he doesn't even acknowledge FACTS like what states have population growth.

Again, this thread is , maybe once we get a few more pages someone will notice it and it'll get closed.

I remember running into a few guys like this BigE during the lockout. Logic and facts tended to muck up their rants, so they were replaced with circular arguments that were flawed from the start and insults as to the intelligence of anyone who dared take a different position. Which as we all know is the best way to win in any debate

I almost always stay away from these types of southern bashing threads, they all start and end the same. Though it is sometimes interesting to see how the bashers are made to look like complete fools, even moreso when they don't realize it. But that guy reminded me so much of a few others from before that I had to get in on it.

 

[Timmy]

But that guy reminded me so much of a few others from before that I had to get in on it.

...and it's a good thing you did.


Debates like this are fun.

They're like Oktoberfest, with much drinking and debating.

Without the beer.

Or the women.

Actually, you'd have been better off going to the political board, where people really know how to throw a party and make you feel welcome...

 

[codswallop]

...and it's a good thing you did.


Debates like this are fun.

They're like Oktoberfest, with much drinking and debating.

Without the beer.

Or the women.

Actually, you'd have been better off going to the political board, where people really know how to throw a party and make you feel welcome...

Whenever I feel like debating politics, I just hit myself in the head with a rock.

It's a two-fold solution:
1)it usually knocks out the impulse to debate politics and
2)if I still feel the urge to after that, the temporary loss of many IQ points now puts me at the level of those who debate politics on a regular basis.

I'll stick to poking fun at the mentally challenged on this board. They're better sport.

 

[BigE]

That's your best line yet, really. Get over yourself and your wishful thinking!

Timmy, your posts in this thread are golden, but trying to knock sense into this guy seems to be a total waste of time since he doesn't even acknowledge FACTS like what states have population growth.

Again, this thread is , maybe once we get a few more pages someone will notice it and it'll get closed.

Where have I not acknowledged population trends? In fact I've stated otherwise in many cases. Sure, the trends point to growth in the South, but for crying out loud you need a little bit more than just a big or increasing population to make an NHL club successful.

You're so upset that I've questioned your intelligence that you're paying no attention to the argument at hand. Leave your feelings at home the next time you want to get into a debate.

 

[BigE]

I remember running into a few guys like this BigE during the lockout. Logic and facts tended to muck up their rants, so they were replaced with circular arguments that were flawed from the start and insults as to the intelligence of anyone who dared take a different position. Which as we all know is the best way to win in any debate

I almost always stay away from these types of southern bashing threads, they all start and end the same. Though it is sometimes interesting to see how the bashers are made to look like complete fools, even moreso when they don't realize it. But that guy reminded me so much of a few others from before that I had to get in on it.

Bring on the logic and facts - I'm still waiting for more than just this year's attendance, and bleak references to population trends to bolster any argument for expansion or relocation into the South.

 

[rwilson99]

Bring on the logic and facts - I'm still waiting for more than just this year's attendance, and bleak references to population trends to bolster any argument for expansion or relocation into the South.

That's like telling a prosector to bring on facts and logic to a murder case... but don't talk about the weapon.

If you feel that you have the best live spectator sport in the world, why wouldn't you want to bring that sport to the fastest growing economies in North America?

 

[Gnashville]

Bring on the logic and facts - I'm still waiting for more than just this year's attendance

I'm reposting this PLEASE ANWSER THESE QUESTIONS AT THE BOTTOM
These are the past yearly average attendance figures for a current NHL team.
13622
14293
14534
12858
14206
13626
11147
10446
10406
11002
13772
Name it!!
Is this a real hockey City?
Would you relocate or contract this team based on these figures?
This is more than One year it's and entire decade!!!!

 

[BigE]

Vancouver, and you do neither.

In fact, you do exactly what the NHL and the Canucks did by supporting its existing markets and building a new arena in 1995.

For what it's worth the Pacific Colisieum only held 16150, something very similar to the old Winnipeg Arena.

You've got a PROVEN hockey market, WITH an expanding population, and at the time a strong provincial economy. Lets also factor in the time period for the NHL where hockey WAS actually the best live sport in the world, and over-saturation of the product was not a factor. Ten to Eleven years later....well, you get the picture.

 

[Gnashville]

Vancouver, and you do neither.

In fact, you do exactly what the NHL and the Canucks did by supporting its existing markets and building a new arena in 1995.

For what it's worth the Pacific Colisieum only held 16150, something very similar to the old Winnipeg Arena.

You've got a PROVEN hockey market, WITH an expanding population, and at the time a strong provincial economy. Lets also factor in the time period for the NHL where hockey WAS actually the best live sport in the world, and over-saturation of the product was not a factor. Ten to Eleven years later....well, you get the picture.

It's a PROVEN market??
They went an entire decade when the sport was at it's height with pitiful attendance in the 3rd LARGEST CITY IN CANADA, yet you say Carolina, Nashville, ect are bad hockey cities. Those number prove one thing it's that Nashville and Carolina may actually be better cities for hockey than Vancouver. Vancouver abandoned their team when they needed them the most. If this was a Southern team you would be saying that PROVES they are NOT a hockey market. Why does Vancouver get a pass? Please note Vancouver fans I am trying to prove a point not call out you as bad fans!!!

 

[rwilson99]

You've got a PROVEN hockey market, WITH an expanding population, and at the time a strong provincial economy. Lets also factor in the time period for the NHL where hockey WAS actually the best live sport in the world, and over-saturation of the product was not a factor. Ten to Eleven years later....well, you get the picture.

Another funny thing that the 'poor product' arguement seems to ignore.

The folding of the communist bloc.

The fall of the Berlin wall in 1989 brought a wave of Russians, Chechs, Ukrainians and players from other Eastern Bloc natons which have expanded the talent pool of NHL players.

Players like Federov, Kovalev & Khabibulin just scratch the surface.

Any doubt that Tretiak couldn't have made an impace on an NHL team's Cup Chances in the late 70s or the 80s?

The Hockey for Hockey cities argument is largely based on closet xenophobia... it ignores population trends, it ignores the contribution of the former Communist Bloc nations and it brings to mind the third rate simple minded arguments of segregation.

While hockey snobberty is just as stupid... at least it's not as evil.

Either way, the good ol' days are over... you lost the argument.

 

[Sotnos]

You're so upset that I've questioned your intelligence that you're paying no attention to the argument at hand. Leave your feelings at home the next time you want to get into a debate.

How about you quit insulting me and pretty much every hockey fan I know instead? I didn't start with the personal stuff. Again, you're not presenting anything other than your opinion, so what is there to debate about?

 

[Dobermann]

You've got a PROVEN hockey market, WITH an expanding population, and at the time a strong provincial economy. Lets also factor in the time period for the NHL where hockey WAS actually the best live sport in the world, and over-saturation of the product was not a factor. Ten to Eleven years later....well, you get the picture.

These sound a lot like excuses.

"Excuses" which you would no doubt dismiss if they were brought up in defense of some non-traditional market.

 

[Dobermann]

You're so upset that I've questioned your intelligence that you're paying no attention to the argument at hand. Leave your feelings at home the next time you want to get into a debate.

And you wonder why people think you're such a joke.

pathetic.