Hockey wanted in hockey cities

[likewall32]

becoming a "hockey city"

As a lifelong citizen of San Jose and a charter fan of the Sharks, I must ask the question, what exactly is a hockey city? Is it having a public rink downtown? Is it having a thriving youth hockey program? Is it having a fanbase of kids and adults alike who go do nothing but eat, sleep, and breathe hockey?

The Sharks came to town in the fall of 91. At that time, there was no public rink, kids didn't play it, and, unless you were a transplant to the bay, or old enough to remember the Seals, you probably knew very little about it. 15 years later, the Sharks are wildly popular, there are several ice rinks and a few roller buildings open to public, the youth program is as strong as any other youth sport in the area (the peewee AA team won the national title this past year), hell, San Jose State is one of the top club teams in the country.

Besides, I wouldn't mind not seeing the North Stars move south. One, Modano probably becomes a Shark. Two, me no likey Dallas

 

[Sotnos]

That does not mean I believe all the moves the NHL has made in the last 15 years have been good ones.

Well, a lot of them probably haven't been good moves because they've been poorly thought out money grabs. But like you say, once the team is there they have to be given a chance. The people who cry about expansion teams should think twice since it was expansion fees raised by our teams that went into your operating expenses for years, propping up a failing economic system. None of this is the fault of the fans, and the thing I have a problem with is that we get most of the backlash from uninformed people.

Tampa Bay is fine but do 2 teams REALLY need to be in Florida?

Put it this way, the League promised Espo that he'd have time to get his team established before they'd even think about putting another team in Florida, but guess what they did two years later? That's right, another cash grab! The state is definitely big enough for two teams, but it probably should have been done a different way.

There is 1 NHL team in New England (Bruins) and 2 in Florida. I think that should be flip flopped.

I don't. You guys have a ton of minor league and college hockey in New England, which I'd kill to get a taste of down here! The support for the Bruins is nothing to write home about, but since it's an Original 6 team we're not supposed to notice that or mention it. Also, I'm from NH, and judging from my extended family and their friends, you all are invading Florida at a rapid rate, so we need two teams. I'm being facetious, but the population is exploding down here, and I don't believe we're undeserving because it doesn't snow, and New England is not more deserving because it does. One of my brothers was a big Monarchs supporter, but no way would he drive down to Boston for a game. I think for a lot of people up there, the minor leagues fill the need for pro hockey.

 

[Whalerfan11]

Not in Connecticut. We have the RANGERS farm team in town and lots of residents can't stand it. You can never get used to an AHL team because the players are constantly moving up and down and you hardly have anyone staying for more than a season or two. Give me the NHL anyday.

 

[Ogopogo*]

You know...it pains me to see a Stanley Cup hoisted in places like Carolina and Tampa Bay. You can't even find a public rink down there. What percentage of the fans in the south can even skate? I know I'm going off on a tangent...but I'd be so much more comfortable with a cup going to Hartford than one going to Carolina. I don't care if another cup is ever won in the states of Georgia, Florida, Tennessee, Texas, or Arizona. Cities like Winnipeg, Quebec City, and Hartford have rabid hockey fans. They're all cities without other top professional sports teams in them. The fact that hockey has to compete in the south with a sport where people make left hand turns for 500 miles before ending right where they started...is disgusting. And forget about competing with college football/basketball in the south. Kansas City, Milwaukee/Green Bay, Seattle, Portland, Hartford, Winnipeg, Quebec City...should all have teams before the likes of these other sites. It's hard enough for hockey to ever grab a foothold of different markets when you consider how few of the potential fans ever played the sport as a kid...or were even a fan of it as a kid for that matter. You have to put teams in markets where kids have a chance to play it. I live in the north and the rinks in the Philadelphia area are few and far in between. I can't imagine what youth hockey is like in south Florida. Not only has the NHL expanded into a lot of questionable markets (simply because they're large TV markets), but they've left behind cities with great heritage and history.

The Minnesota North Stars leaving for Dallas...was probably the worst relocation imaginable. I miss all the old jerseys. Most of the new teams have the most hideous colors, logos, and nicknames ever seen on a professional sports team.

*sigh*

blah blah blah. Quit yer whining. I see some very pumped fans in Raleigh, just as I did in Tampa. Who made you God so that you could decide who deserves NHL hockey?

 

[GSC2k2*]

This thread is boring. It befits the pedantic effort of the thread starter.

Twit.

 

[Dobermann]

You know...it pains me to see a Stanley Cup hoisted in places like Carolina and Tampa Bay. You can't even find a public rink down there. What percentage of the fans in the south can even skate? I know I'm going off on a tangent...but I'd be so much more comfortable with a cup going to Hartford than one going to Carolina. I don't care if another cup is ever won in the states of Georgia, Florida, Tennessee, Texas, or Arizona. Cities like Winnipeg, Quebec City, and Hartford have rabid hockey fans. They're all cities without other top professional sports teams in them. The fact that hockey has to compete in the south with a sport where people make left hand turns for 500 miles before ending right where they started...is disgusting. And forget about competing with college football/basketball in the south. Kansas City, Milwaukee/Green Bay, Seattle, Portland, Hartford, Winnipeg, Quebec City...should all have teams before the likes of these other sites. It's hard enough for hockey to ever grab a foothold of different markets when you consider how few of the potential fans ever played the sport as a kid...or were even a fan of it as a kid for that matter. You have to put teams in markets where kids have a chance to play it. I live in the north and the rinks in the Philadelphia area are few and far in between. I can't imagine what youth hockey is like in south Florida. Not only has the NHL expanded into a lot of questionable markets (simply because they're large TV markets), but they've left behind cities with great heritage and history.

The Minnesota North Stars leaving for Dallas...was probably the worst relocation imaginable. I miss all the old jerseys. Most of the new teams have the most hideous colors, logos, and nicknames ever seen on a professional sports team.

*sigh*

You might want to visit www.jetsowner.com. There are plenty of people who think just like you, and you can all get together and whine until the end of time.

 

[rwilson99]

You know...it pains me to see a Stanley Cup hoisted in places like Carolina and Tampa Bay. You can't even find a public rink down there. What percentage of the fans in the south can even skate? I know I'm going off on a tangent...but I'd be so much more comfortable with a cup going to Hartford than one going to Carolina. Most of the new teams have the most hideous colors, logos, and nicknames ever seen on a professional sports team.

*sigh*

There are a number of thriving public rinks in Tampa, and I'm sure there are one or two in Raliegh as well.

The fact is that lots of hockey fans in the Rust Belt are leaving the dying industrial economies of the North and moving South and West where a combination of service, recreation, techology and information companies are driving job growth.

If the NHL, who has expanded in Northern markets (Minnesota, Columbus, Ottawa) in greater frequency than any other North American sport, ignored the South and West over the last 15 years as you suggest the league would arranging for its own destruction.

You can't ignore population trends like that and survive.

 

[Dobermann]

I'm sure there are one or two in Raliegh as well.

There are at least 9 that I can think of. Probably more I don't know about.

 

[dabid]

You might want to visit www.jetsowner.com. There are plenty of people who think just like you, and you can all get together and whine until the end of time.

 

[Sens Rule]

I think that California is starting to produce quite a few great hockey players in the US. Mostly due to the Gretzky trade the hype of the Kings in the Early 90's and the Ducks coming to town.

The same thing happened in San Jose and I think in Dallas and it is happening where ever their are NHL teams.

The expansion to the South has not been a failure at all in my opinion. Look at baseball. It is widely popular everywhere especially in the Southern states like Florida but the Marlins and Devil Rays are seemingly an annual threat to try and move. And that is baseball. I think the 2 hockey teams are healthier than the baseball teams and that says alot for the NHL.

 

[Michael Morbid]

I think that California is starting to produce quite a few great hockey players in the US. Mostly due to the Gretzky trade the hype of the Kings in the Early 90's and the Ducks coming to town.

The same thing happened in San Jose and I think in Dallas and it is happening where ever their are NHL teams.

The expansion to the South has not been a failure at all in my opinion. Look at baseball. It is widely popular everywhere especially in the Southern states like Florida but the Marlins and Devil Rays are seemingly an annual threat to try and move. And that is baseball. I think the 2 hockey teams are healthier than the baseball teams and that says alot for the NHL.

Panthers are by far doing better than the Marlins, that's for sure.

 

[Michael Morbid]

In case anyone wanted to know where the rinks are in South Florida (all of the following also have jr. hockey programs) here's a list...

Palm Beach Ice Zone - West Palm Beach
The Ice Zone features twin ice skating rinks with spectator seating and a climate controlled "warm zone." The arena is home to the IceHawks junior hockey team, and offers figure skating and hockey classes of varying age and degree levels. Connected to the arena is an entertainment facility and rollerskating complex dubbed the "Skate Zone." Members of the Florida Panther's Hockey Team have been known to show up on occasion to sign autographs.

Sunrise Ice Skating Center - Sunrise
Recently under new management, Sunrise Ice Skating Center offers skating instruction from beginners to advanced. Their instructors teach both figure skating and ice hockey to all ages and skill levels. The arena is the official home of the Florida Sharp Shooters youth hockey league.

Glacier Ice & Snow Arena - Lighthouse Point
Formerly known as Goldcoast Ice Skating rink and the previous home of the Florida Panther's hockey team, this arena features a 40,000 square-foot ice skating and entertainment facility with live DJs during the evening and weekend sessions. They offer a variety of classes: Beginning skate lessons, figure skating, and hockey practice are available for all ages and ability levels. Glacier features a "snow day" on Sundays from 11 a.m. to 1 p.m. where the white stuff is piled into the ice rink so kids (ages 2-11) can build a snowman, take a ice sleigh ride, or throw snowballs. Snow days are during the summer only.

Incredible Ice - Coral Springs
The 75,000-square-foot, twin ice skating and entertainment facility boasts one of the most competitive adult ice hockey and youth ice hockey programs in Florida. Incredible ICE hosts the Florida Panther's practices, which are free and open to the public. The arena features many skating programs -- competitive figure skating and travel hockey teams, learn-to-skate classes and more. To enhance skater performance, the Off-Ice Training Center features 3,000-square feet of weight training and cardiovascular equipment along with an aerobics/dance studio. The Camp Incredible summer program is designed for skaters of all abilities that runs 8:30 a.m.- 3:30 p.m. on weekdays. Every weekend, teens can skate to the hottest music videos projected onto a 16-foot video wall, with a live DJ and light show.

Pines Ice Arena - Pembroke Pines
Pines offers public ice skating, group and private lessons, instructional hockey classes, and both youth and adult hockey leagues. The arena comprises of two separate rinks, allowing for two events to go on at the same time -- no need to worry about the hockey team gouging the ice before the figure skaters start practice. Must be aged 4 and older.

Kendall Ice Arena - Miami
With two sheets of ice measuring 200 feet by 85 feet, Kendall Ice Arena is designated as a progressive training facility by the PSA (Professional Skaters Association). The arena is also offers a summer camp for skaters of all abilities ages 7-12. The rink plans to hold its first "Nutcracker on Ice" performance on December 18, 2005.

Also,

New Rink Will Be Managed by Panthers and Sunrise Sports & Entertainment

SUNRISE, Fla. - Sunrise Sports & Entertainment announced that the City of Weston on Monday night approved plans for the design, management and operation of the Weston ice rink, slated to be built on a five-acre site on the northern portion of Vista Park.

The new Weston rink will include two NHL regulation-size ice rinks, a pro shop, restaurants, a skater’s lounge and three basketball courts. The new facility will also be able to convert into a multipurpose space to hold events such as volleyball games and gymnastic competitions. Once completed, the Panthers, who currently practice at incredibleICE, will begin to practice primarily at the new rink.

That's a total of 6 (soon to be 7) rinks (that have ice hockey programs) within a 45 mile radius of the Florida Panthers arena in Sunrise.

And to the ****** who started this thread, everytime you whine about the NHL's Southern expansion...

...Bettman gets that much closer to moving your favorite team to Hawaii.

 

[rwilson99]

There are at least 9 that I can think of. Probably more I don't know about.

That's really amazing when you think about it...

After all, in Tampa, we have to truck our ice in from Canada every Tuesday.

 

[AdmiralPred]

If a team is relocated or a warm weather market gets a team, those places have to be given a chance. I firmly believe in that. Once you have the NHL in town, more youth leagues and rinks are bound to sprout up. That does not mean I believe all the moves the NHL has made in the last 15 years have been good ones. Tampa Bay is fine but do 2 teams REALLY need to be in Florida?

There is 1 NHL team in New England (Bruins) and 2 in Florida. I think that should be flip flopped.

If they are viable why not have 10 teams? I will never understand this reasoning.

And when this topic comes up, what about all of the minor pro leagues that exist in "non-traditional" markets?

And what's with lumping Columbus into those "southern" teams that a poster did above? Columbus is closer to Canada than I am, and I live in Wisconsin, to continue with this rationalization.

 

[Retail1LO*]

Wish I'd never started the thread. LOL. I've never posted here, to know that there had already been similar threads. I just wanted to see what people's reactions would be...and I have. There's clearly enough passionate people in the areas I criticized based upon all of these replies. It's good to see the game has strenght in numbers both north and south. The viewpoints I express don't always necessarily reflect my own, as much as they are mere words to stimulate heated responses. Hockey's all about passion...and that passion doesn't need to be restricted to being rinkside on gameday. Peace and love of pucks, people.

 

[Sotnos]

Wish I'd never started the thread. LOL.

Then we've done our job!

I've never posted here, to know that there had already been similar threads. I just wanted to see what people's reactions would be...and I have.

Hmm, that's interesting, because earlier you said:

Hey...it's just a thread. I've seen others like it...they get good reactions. I just wanted to stir the pot a little.​

The viewpoints I express don't always necessarily reflect my own, as much as they are mere words to stimulate heated responses.

Admitting you're trolling is generally not a really good idea.

 

[BigE]

it's happened, its the way it is.,.get over it.
Besides, I don't think anyone can question how much North Carolina loves their Canes with the crowds those first 2 games, and really the whole playoffs

Everyone loves a winner...

 

[BigE]

So quick to turtle, Kaspar?

Nobody really wants to see Carolina hoist the Cup, which is even worse than Tampa hoisting the Cup. I suppose what hurts the most is that a lot of these markets are being given the chance, when truer markets aren't.

If you can't sell-out a Stanley Cup Final game, you don't deserve a team. Likewise, if you're now just jumping on the bandwagon because the team in your area is 2 games away from winning it all - you don't deserve a team.

Who makes us fit to judge? Who/what has made us "God"? The years of suffering we've endured under the Bettman regime while remaining loyal to the game, and hoping all of this non-sense will pass.

I don't even need a team back in Winnipeg, but I do think the league would be better off if it weren't in Carolina, or Atlanta, or Florida, or Tampa, or even Anaheim.

Improve the level of competition, get the game into markets where it's going to thrive. Don't depend on population swings of transplanted residents from Canada or the Northern US to bolster followings (probably the most ridiculous and unfounded statement I've seen in this thread - delete your user ID immediately...).

What more can I say? Are people going to be offended? Absolutely. But those that truly get upset aren't going to be nearly as many as those already pissed off about what's happening currently.

 

[Drake1588]

Teams follow the money, without much correlation to whether or not the target market's population plays the sport.

At a macro level, dying markets lose pro sports teams and growing markets tend to gain them. It happens. Unless New Orleans can arrest its population decline and the slow pace of re-population, it could very well lose its football team, never mind how popular the sport is in the area. Pittsburgh could go either way, but at the very least, they are struggling to make it work for their hockey team. They will keep the team by barely scraping by, if they keep it at all. Never mind that Pittsburgh has among the most storied pro hockey traditions in the US, outside the Northeast. Generally, cities where more people are leaving than are arriving, struggle to hold on to their teams.

Teams may leave a city for a variety of reasons, from decline to apathy to the financial insolvency of an ownership group, but they invariably choose their new homes in what are perceived to be growing markets, like moths to a flame.

Look at the NHL landscape today: If a team has to move, it is Houston and Las Vegas that are often cited as increasingly viable markets — not because there is pond ice or a concentration of arenas, but because those regions are growing by leaps and bounds. Elsewhere, the Washington area gains a baseball team while the city continues to expand rapidly into the suburbs, fueled by widespread defense and information technology-driven prosperity.

It's a heartless process sometimes, and it's not fair to loyal fans, but it's purely business. Put aside nostalgia and follow the money... that's where the teams tend to go.


As for fanbases... maybe someday the NHL will go the way of FIFA, where an increasingly international fan base does not require regional proximity to the city to back the team. Fans of a team need not live in the city in which the team plays, instead constituting substantial virtual support, in the age of Center Ice and every game on every television set, regardless of market. It's a lot easier now to support an NHL team from across the continent. It's conceivably a new way of looking at the business model. Shrug.

 

[eaton28]

In case anyone wanted to know where the rinks are in South Florida (all of the following also have jr. hockey programs) here's a list...

Palm Beach Ice Zone - West Palm Beach
The Ice Zone features twin ice skating rinks with spectator seating and a climate controlled "warm zone." The arena is home to the IceHawks junior hockey team, and offers figure skating and hockey classes of varying age and degree levels. Connected to the arena is an entertainment facility and rollerskating complex dubbed the "Skate Zone." Members of the Florida Panther's Hockey Team have been known to show up on occasion to sign autographs.

Sunrise Ice Skating Center - Sunrise
Recently under new management, Sunrise Ice Skating Center offers skating instruction from beginners to advanced. Their instructors teach both figure skating and ice hockey to all ages and skill levels. The arena is the official home of the Florida Sharp Shooters youth hockey league.

Glacier Ice & Snow Arena - Lighthouse Point
Formerly known as Goldcoast Ice Skating rink and the previous home of the Florida Panther's hockey team, this arena features a 40,000 square-foot ice skating and entertainment facility with live DJs during the evening and weekend sessions. They offer a variety of classes: Beginning skate lessons, figure skating, and hockey practice are available for all ages and ability levels. Glacier features a "snow day" on Sundays from 11 a.m. to 1 p.m. where the white stuff is piled into the ice rink so kids (ages 2-11) can build a snowman, take a ice sleigh ride, or throw snowballs. Snow days are during the summer only.

Incredible Ice - Coral Springs
The 75,000-square-foot, twin ice skating and entertainment facility boasts one of the most competitive adult ice hockey and youth ice hockey programs in Florida. Incredible ICE hosts the Florida Panther's practices, which are free and open to the public. The arena features many skating programs -- competitive figure skating and travel hockey teams, learn-to-skate classes and more. To enhance skater performance, the Off-Ice Training Center features 3,000-square feet of weight training and cardiovascular equipment along with an aerobics/dance studio. The Camp Incredible summer program is designed for skaters of all abilities that runs 8:30 a.m.- 3:30 p.m. on weekdays. Every weekend, teens can skate to the hottest music videos projected onto a 16-foot video wall, with a live DJ and light show.

Pines Ice Arena - Pembroke Pines
Pines offers public ice skating, group and private lessons, instructional hockey classes, and both youth and adult hockey leagues. The arena comprises of two separate rinks, allowing for two events to go on at the same time -- no need to worry about the hockey team gouging the ice before the figure skaters start practice. Must be aged 4 and older.

Kendall Ice Arena - Miami
With two sheets of ice measuring 200 feet by 85 feet, Kendall Ice Arena is designated as a progressive training facility by the PSA (Professional Skaters Association). The arena is also offers a summer camp for skaters of all abilities ages 7-12. The rink plans to hold its first "Nutcracker on Ice" performance on December 18, 2005.

Also,

That's a total of 6 (soon to be 7) rinks (that have ice hockey programs) within a 45 mile radius of the Florida Panthers arena in Sunrise.

And to the ****** who started this thread, everytime you whine about the NHL's Southern expansion...

...Bettman gets that much closer to moving your favorite team to Hawaii.

Those numbers are terrible for a state with that population. My hometown has 13 icepads in a 10 KM radius, all of which hockey nightly... the population of my hometown is 100,000 for your information

 

[Timmy]

The years of suffering we've endured under the Bettman regime while remaining loyal to the game, and hoping all of this non-sense will pass.


Who's "we?" I've enjoyed Bettman's tenure.



Improve the level of competition,

I thought it has been.

get the game into markets where it's going to thrive.

And this is easy to predict because...


Don't depend on population swings of transplanted residents from Canada or the Northern US to bolster followings (probably the most ridiculous and unfounded statement I've seen in this thread - delete your user ID immediately...).

So, people who you disagree with should not be allowed to post here anymore, just like cities shouldn't you don't consider "deserving" shouldn't be allowed to have hockey. How humble of you.

What more can I say? Are people going to be offended? Absolutely.

So, it's okay for you to offend entire fanbases, but those who offend you should be kicked off HFBoards. Got it.

But those that truly get upset aren't going to be nearly as many as those already pissed off about what's happening currently.

Which begs the question, why are people so upset about hockey in "non-traditional" markets?

 

[AdmiralPred]

*CUT*
What more can I say? Are people going to be offended? Absolutely. But those that truly get upset aren't going to be nearly as many as those already pissed off about what's happening currently.

C'mon BigE, I've followed you around the net (not as a stalker ) and I know you have more sense and a better argument than that last post. I don't know, I'm all for exposing the sport to more areas and if it takes a Finals run to pluck a few more fans out of a mass of bandwagoners - so be it.

And eaton28 (probably will never read this), your comparing the ice rink per capita of your locale in Canada to that of the Gold Coast? Ya think there's going to be a higher rink per person where your from (rhetorical)?

 

[Sotnos]

What more can I say?

Probably a lot, but it'd be hard to top the mound of garbage you just laid on us. You could start with giving a viable reason to be angry, ouside of the jealousy which is shining through every line.

 

[Timmy]

Probably a lot, but it'd be hard to top the mound of garbage you just laid on us. You could start with giving a viable reason to be angry, ouside of the jealousy which is shining through every line.

Since the end of the lockout didn't even make the front page of the sports sections in NYC, I think the Rangers should be relocated to a city more deserving and attentive to the NHL...

 

[Realm]

I'm here in Connecticut watching this whole thing unfold. And it's nothing against Carolina or its fans at all I just can't stop thinking that if the Whalers ever got to the conference finals ONCE they would still be around. As a kid I dreamed of the Whalers winning the stanley cup..and now I'm seeing it..but they're not my Whalers.

I feel ya, I was a big North Stars fan and seeing them win the cup hurt alot. I was also a big Whalers fan, miss that squad!