Hockey-reference.com Player Rankings

vippe

Registered User
Mar 18, 2008
14,234
1,184
Sweden
I think it looks a lot better than it did a few weeks ago. There's a few favorite players showing up a bit early and vice versa in the rankings but overall it's not that far off. Pretty funny even though it's flawed :)
 

Hardyvan123

tweet@HardyintheWack
Jul 4, 2010
17,552
24
Vancouver
They're doing the same thing on their baseball and basketball sites. Babe Ruth has a slight lead over Ted Williams on the baseball one, while in basketball Michael Jordan is way ahead of everyone else.

I'll have to look where Bonds is on the baseball list, both Ruth and Williams played in a white only league and their greatness is lessened by this IMO.

Just looked it up Bonds is 15th which is laughable.
 
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Blades of Glory

Troll Captain
Feb 12, 2006
18,401
6
California
I was so appalled by this list when I saw it for the first time today that I actually took time to vote on at least 15 comparisons. The funny thing is, the rankings actually looked decent through the top 30. But around there is when **** hit the fan. Jt is an absolute disaster from 30 on upwards. My favorite is Pronger at 80, only because of some of the names in front of him.
 

Blades of Glory

Troll Captain
Feb 12, 2006
18,401
6
California
I'll have to look where Bonds is on the baseball list, both Ruth and Williams played in a white only league and their greatness is lessened by this IMO.

Just looked it up Bonds is 15th which is laughable.

The fact that Bonds is 15th despite his steroid issues is a testament to how dominant a player he was. He is the greatest all-around player in baseball history and his accomplishments are so overwhelming that people still feel compelled to vote him 15th despite everything else that has gone on. But the fact that Alex Rodriguez and Albert Pujols are ahead of him, at least at the moment in Pujols' case, is a joke. Bonds was a top-10 player in baseball history before he used steroids. His impact on the game was unlike any other player, ever. He is #3 all-time on offensive WAR, #1 all-time in defensive WAR, and #2 all-time in total WAR. Unless your name is Ruth or Williams, you should be behind him on an all-time list.
 

Gobo

Stop looking Gare
Jun 29, 2010
7,440
0
Very fun. Hardest one i've had so far would be Richard vs. Lidstrom.
 

TheMoreYouKnow

Registered User
May 3, 2007
16,385
3,412
38° N 77° W
Another two weeks on and I look and see Bobby Hull in 3rd, Mike Bossy in 5th meanwhile Brian Trottier is ahead of Gordie Howe who is 9th and Yzerman at 10th is almost even in points with Howe.

There doesn't seem to be enough people using it on a regular basis to neutralize the factor of even one guy who has an agenda.
 

Killion

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
36,763
3,211
Yeah. I give up.

Wrong. Your not a quitter. Best ever?, Jean Beliveau. Aint too proud to say it either. Im from LeafLand, Greatest player Ive ever watched. Do us all a favor & get yer head OFF the boards & back on the ICE you effing wimp,,,,
 

JaymzB

Registered User
Apr 8, 2003
2,858
127
Toronto
Just took a look at the rankings for fun. Here are some interesting rankings:

Gordie Howe: 21
Jean Beliveau: 48
Maurice Richard: 52
Eddie Shore: 53
Doug Harvey: 59
Howie Morenz: 89
 

Peter9

Registered User
Apr 1, 2008
412
3
Los Angeles, USA
Exactly, they will improve over time as more votes are compiled. That's the whole concept of the project. We need to give it a few weeks before criticizing specific rankings.

I wish that were so, but I don't think it is. These ratings have been running for more than six weeks now, I believe, and perhaps two months. At the start they were fairly reasonable. Players might have been out of where they should be by a few spots, but there were no really outrageous ratings. Things have steadily gotten worse since then. For example, I have watched as three of my all-time favorite players, Doug Harvey, Jean Beliveau and Maurice Richard have gone from the top 10 steadily down the list to the point where Beliveau is now 49, Harvey is 52 and the Rocket is 57. I doubt any reasonable member of this board would rank these three that low, except perhaps a few whose remarks have indicated they don't think Richard was one of the greats.

The same thing has happened to other old-timers from other clubs, although their drop has not been as dramatic except for poor Ted Lindsay, who has dropped to 82, although he can take comfort in finding himself 10 spots higher than Howie Morenz at 92. Early on, as I recall, Morenz was just below the top 10 and Lindsay was in the high teens.

It would take a majority of knowledgeable voters committed to casting their votes in a principled way to change things around. That is very unlikely to happen. Most voters are probably quite young and voting for their favorite players and players who played for their favorite club. It was quite evident at one point that Bruins fans were making a concerted and successful effort to lift Bruins players up the list. I was tempted to alert Canadiens fans to this voting fiasco on the various Canadiens fans boards I read, but decided it would an unworthy effort. Instead, I pay the ranking no attention outside the effort this contribution has required.
 

TheDevilMadeMe

Registered User
Aug 28, 2006
52,271
6,980
Brooklyn
Gretzky is now the 11th ranked player, behind guys like Messier, Yzerman, and Dionne.

For some reason, he's had over 100 fewer matches than other guys at the top.
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,080
7,132
Regina, SK
Gretzky is now the 11th ranked player, behind guys like Messier, Yzerman, and Dionne.

For some reason, he's had over 100 fewer matches than other guys at the top.

so this is a case of him not getting enough matches, isn't it? I don't think there would be people voting him downwards. If anything, he has too many fanboys, not too many haters.

Just a flaw in the system.
 

TheMoreYouKnow

Registered User
May 3, 2007
16,385
3,412
38° N 77° W
No, look at the point totals. They have actively decreased. Gretzky had at one point over 2500 points, he has now around 2250. I don't think you actively lose points by not having match-ups, you gotta have people vote you down to lose those points.

Every week it's some different "agenda". Gordie Howe has gone from being out of the top 15 to being the no.1. Yzerman at 6, Sawchuk at goalie #1, Lindsay at #18 looks like Wings fans got a hold of it. Now, some Hawk fan is probably gonna go nuts and it's gonna be totally upside down the other way again.
 

ot92s

Registered User
Nov 5, 2011
741
3
They have lindstrom ahead of wayne gretzky & gordie howe.

"This is a community-based project with the goal of rating the best players in NHL history"

they need to go back to the drawing board...
 

lazerbullet

Registered User
May 22, 2009
684
0
Europe
The big difference between chess Elo and this:
in chess Elo rating is based/measured on actual performance,
here Elo is measured based on people opinion. Pretty useless.
 

Nalens Oga

Registered User
Jan 5, 2010
16,780
1,053
Canada
I wanted to bump this to see what people think since it seems to have improved a bit for skaters at least. Now there's obviously a big bias in the 100+ range to rank a guy playing right now over a guy who retired in the 90s or early 00's since people lump them in the same era and remember the newer ones better but looking at the 100+, I think it's quite informative.

Also hockey history isn't absolute. It's about opinions so what I love about these rankings are that they show how people view who was better. Of course Russ Courtnall or Valeri Kamensky or Zhamnov might actually have been better players than Rolston or Holmstrom but it's a nice reflection of who's seen as more prestigious in present day.
 

Michael Farkas

Grace Personified
Jun 28, 2006
13,352
7,834
NYC
www.HockeyProspect.com
I'll say one thing about it - as sometimes I use it when I'm bored - it produces some noodle-scratchers sometimes. Maybe this thread can be devoted to discussing some of the interesting "battles" it produces...
 

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