Hockey people you don't like...

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chooch*

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octopi said:
I don't think he' s a weirdo(then again, nobody suspects the real freaks, right?), however I completly agree with the last half of your statement. I'll add...couldn't play defensive hockey to save his life.
Thats why, call me crazy, I'll never acknowledge Gretzky as the greatest hockey player of all time.Greatest scoring forward of all time? Well, duh. But hockey is a more complete game, and involves physical contact. There's players on the national woman's team who have had more physical careers than Gretzky(probably most of them).

Thats gotta be the funniest/truest statement in the history of hockey!

He was never hit hard except for Mcreary and Suter. Rememeber his "injury" on a little love tap in 87?

The guy was protected from day 1 by not only the cementheads but also the NHL; unlike Orr, etc he was the kind of guy who asked for protection (he asked for Marty Mac to be included in the LA trade).What a guy.

He was never slashed and hacked at like Mario was; remember David Shaw - when did you see anything like that against 99? Thats why Mario scored more goals on the PP - he DREW penalties unlike Mr. Defensive Liability.Wayne almost never was slashed (must be his great vision :biglaugh: ) or tripped or hooked or boarded.

And for all the stats hounds, take 92/417 (99's best goal year /# his team scored)and you get a number thats lower than Marios best years divided by the number of goals Pittsburgh scored. What about the fact that Mario has more goals in his last 12 years than Wayne did? So what you say? Well Mario didnt play in 3 of those years! Mario had some superb years after 30 when 99 was clearly just a protected flip passer. Or did Mario get better with age and injury. :biglaugh:

There are all sorts of stats that "prove" Mario was a better scorer - or you can close your eyes and rely on raw numbers like some of 99's fanatics.

The "chose to be a playmaker" argument is laughable! Yeah he chose to score 9 goals a year.

38 goals at the age of 33 huh? well Bobby Hull had 50 at 33; mario had 35 in 43 games after not playing for 3 years!

His job wasnt to play defense? well duh! we're not talking about defense but defensive responsibility like Yzerman, Messier, Howe, Lafleur, Mario, Rocket, Jean etc etc. These guys all came back. I never saw a guy hang out at centre like 99 did. Even when Mario was on 1 leg/hip he came back. (btw did Orr's coach ask him to play defence or offence?)

As for asking a player like Carbonneau to play offense - check his junior stats!!!; he was a terrific offensive player (almost 200 points his last year of junior! )but the Habs asked him to play defense and forgo offense. Ask and ye shall receive victory. Something 99 cared less for than endorsements.
 

KOVALEV10*

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chooch said:
Thats gotta be the funniest/truest statement in the history of hockey!

He was never hit hard except for Mcreary and Suter. Rememeber his "injury" on a little love tap in 87?

The guy was protected from day 1 by not only the cementheads but also the NHL; unlike Orr, etc he was the kind of guy who asked for protection (he asked for Marty Mac to be included in the LA trade).What a guy.

He was never slashed and hacked at like Mario was; remember David Shaw - when did you see anything like that against 99? Thats why Mario scored more goals on the PP - he DREW penalties unlike Mr. Defensive Liability.Wayne almost never was slashed (must be his great vision :biglaugh: ) or tripped or hooked or boarded.

And for all the stats hounds, take 92/417 (99's best goal year /# his team scored)and you get a number thats lower than Marios best years divided by the number of goals Pittsburgh scored. What about the fact that Mario has more goals in his last 12 years than Wayne did? So what you say? Well Mario didnt play in 3 of those years! Mario had some superb years after 30 when 99 was clearly just a protected flip passer. Or did Mario get better with age and injury. :biglaugh:

There are all sorts of stats that "prove" Mario was a better scorer - or you can close your eyes and rely on raw numbers like some of 99's fanatics.

The "chose to be a playmaker" argument is laughable! Yeah he chose to score 9 goals a year.

38 goals at the age of 33 huh? well Bobby Hull had 50 at 33; mario had 35 in 43 games after not playing for 3 years!

His job wasnt to play defense? well duh! we're not talking about defense but defensive responsibility like Yzerman, Messier, Howe, Lafleur, Mario, Rocket, Jean etc etc. These guys all came back. I never saw a guy hang out at centre like 99 did. Even when Mario was on 1 leg/hip he came back. (btw did Orr's coach ask him to play defence or offence?)

As for asking a player like Carbonneau to play offense - check his junior stats!!!; he was a terrific offensive player (almost 200 points his last year of junior! )but the Habs asked him to play defense and forgo offense. Ask and ye shall receive victory. Something 99 cared less for than endorsements.

Excellent post. Mario was obviously better goal scorer then Wayne that's for damn sure. Mario's goals were actually great goals like dekes and incredible top corner shots while Gretzky were more ugly looking 5 hole goals and lucky bounces or simply getting great passes and finishing it off. Was Gretzky great? Hell yeah. Was he a better scorer then Mario? Hell no!

Plus Mario in 1991 and 1992 played a great 2 way game. That playoff year Mario played more defense then Gretzky ever did!
 

arrbez

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Jun 2, 2004
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KOVALEV10 said:
Excellent post. Mario was obviously better goal scorer then Wayne that's for damn sure. Mario's goals were actually great goals like dekes and incredible top corner shots while Gretzky were more ugly looking 5 hole goals and lucky bounces or simply getting great passes and finishing it off. Was Gretzky great? Hell yeah. Was he a better scorer then Mario? Hell no!

lol, who cares? does it matter who makes fancier plays? It's all worth the same on the score sheet. Is Alexei Kovalev a better goal scorer than Mark Recchi just because he has nicer dekes? There's something to be said for reading a play and being in the right place at the right time.
 

arrbez

bad chi
Jun 2, 2004
13,352
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chooch said:
The guy was protected from day 1 by not only the cementheads but also the NHL; unlike Orr, etc he was the kind of guy who asked for protection (he asked for Marty Mac to be included in the LA trade).What a guy.

He was never slashed and hacked at like Mario was; remember David Shaw - when did you see anything like that against 99? Thats why Mario scored more goals on the PP - he DREW penalties unlike Mr. Defensive Liability.Wayne almost never was slashed (must be his great vision :biglaugh: ) or tripped or hooked or boarded

you almost seem happy that Mario was "man enough" to take a beating and miss half his career due to injury. if I had an asset like Gretzky or Lemieux on my team, I would make damn sure I protected him.
 

KariyaIsGod*

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KOVALEV10 said:
Excellent post. Mario was obviously better goal scorer then Wayne that's for damn sure. Mario's goals were actually great goals like dekes and incredible top corner shots while Gretzky were more ugly looking 5 hole goals and lucky bounces or simply getting great passes and finishing it off. Was Gretzky great? Hell yeah. Was he a better scorer then Mario? Hell no!

Plus Mario in 1991 and 1992 played a great 2 way game. That playoff year Mario played more defense then Gretzky ever did!

Yeah, he scored great goals on the powerplay...

Spectacular. He scored far less goals than Wyane and a significantly higher percentage of his were on the powerplay...

Wayne's a fluke though. One of the best slapshots of all-time, but he's a fluke.... And all of his goals were great passes from Dave Semenko and Mike Krusheylniski too right? Please watch a game instead of making really stupid remarks continuously...

You and chooch are complete jokes. Mario came back..
:biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh: Are you kidding? When's the last time Mario killed penalties, the QMJHL?
 

Bring Back Bucky

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KOVALEV10 said:
Excellent post. Mario was obviously better goal scorer then Wayne that's for damn sure. Mario's goals were actually great goals like dekes and incredible top corner shots while Gretzky were more ugly looking 5 hole goals and lucky bounces or simply getting great passes and finishing it off. Was Gretzky great? Hell yeah. Was he a better scorer then Mario? Hell no!

Plus Mario in 1991 and 1992 played a great 2 way game. That playoff year Mario played more defense then Gretzky ever did!


I think a lot of Gretzky's terrible decline may be attributed to Canada Cup 81. Admittedly, he looked up to Guy Lafleur. I wonder if Guy introduced him to cancer sticks and hitting the bottle hard before and after and in between games. Could this be the real key to Gretzky being such a poor player? Is that why he cared only about his own personal stats and not the team- did he learn from Guy walking out on his mates in the middle of the season??
 

mcphee

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Bucky, the walking out part's below the belt [he ignores the obvious pun]. You don't hate or even dislike Lafleur, your problem's with Chooch and Kovy. Let's have more personal attacks on posters and less shots at a great player. Sometimes I wake up wanting to pour gasoline on the fire. As I'm pretty sure nothing productive is coming out of this, did anyone see Larry Robinson and JR on Off The Record the other day ? Larry was wearing shorts and sitting in the chair in a very compromising position. The cameraman seemed mesmerized with this part of Larry. I was yelling at the screen 'don't move Larry,stay still'. One false move and we'd see more of a hof'er than we bargained for. Please, someone confirm they saw this, so I can rest easy that I wasn't having some sort of homo erotic dream ?
 

Zopust

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Jun 27, 2005
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How did yet another thread get hijacked by Chooch's anti-Gretzky crusade?

If the guy were French-Canadian and played on the Habs he'd be le Dieu.

Why don't you just create a Gretzky-bashing thread and just leave all this talk there. It's getting annoyingly repetitive.
 

Bring Back Bucky

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mcphee said:
Bucky, the walking out part's below the belt [he ignores the obvious pun]. You don't hate or even dislike Lafleur, your problem's with Chooch and Kovy. Let's have more personal attacks on posters and less shots at a great player. Sometimes I wake up wanting to pour gasoline on the fire. As I'm pretty sure nothing productive is coming out of this, did anyone see Larry Robinson and JR on Off The Record the other day ? Larry was wearing shorts and sitting in the chair in a very compromising position. The cameraman seemed mesmerized with this part of Larry. I was yelling at the screen 'don't move Larry,stay still'. One false move and we'd see more of a hof'er than we bargained for. Please, someone confirm they saw this, so I can rest easy that I wasn't having some sort of homo erotic dream ?


McPhee, that has to be the post of the year!! :) Luckily, you, and likely most posters here know damned well I don't dislike Guy Lafleur in any way, shape or form. I respect and admire almost all of the greats. I am also smart enough to know that posting silliness like that makes me look like an ass and fools no one. Knowing I'm being a jackass diferrentiates me from others.

Getting back to your Larry Robinson fantasy, I'm sorry that I can't help you. In my house the television is firmly glued on "Treehouse". Knowing you, however, I'm pretty confident that the cameraman was the pervert and you were just an innocent bystander / peeper.
 

mattihp

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DrMoses said:
You and chooch are complete jokes. Mario came back..
:biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh: Are you kidding? When's the last time Mario killed penalties, the QMJHL?
Mario's been an effective penalty killer for his entire career.

He also holds the league record for most shorthanded goals in a single season.
 

KariyaIsGod*

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mattihp said:
Mario's been an effective penalty killer for his entire career.

He also holds the league record for most shorthanded goals in a single season.

You're right, he has 13 in one year. Boatload compared to Wayne's seasons of 12 and 11...

Not bad for a guy who "floats at center and can't score if not for the brilliant passes he recieves..."
 

mattihp

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DrMoses said:
You're right, he has 13 in one year. Boatload compared to Wayne's seasons of 12 and 11...

Not bad for a guy who "floats at center and can't score if not for the brilliant passes he recieves..."
Wayne Gretzky was awesome and a good penaltykiller. I have never doubted that.

And Wayne probably has more highlight reel goals than anyone else. BUT he also had a lot of straight out of the book-goals that were not that amazing. But he had ALL of those goals, which is what makes him so worth remembering.
 

octopi

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Dec 29, 2004
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mcphee said:
Larry was wearing shorts and sitting in the chair in a very compromising position. The cameraman seemed mesmerized with this part of Larry. I was yelling at the screen 'don't move Larry,stay still'. One false move and we'd see more of a hof'er than we bargained for. Please, someone confirm they saw this, so I can rest easy that I wasn't having some sort of homo erotic dream ?

Yep, he was wearing short shorts and sitting with his legs splayed, and they were doing full body shots. Wonder if they were trying to make up for the Jessica Simpson in a bikini video they keep showing.And don't get me started on Landsberg's obsession with then underage Kournikova 2 years ago_Or that he has to bring in supermodels. That show is really turning into a T& A parade, which is sad, because it really can stand by itself most days.
 

mcphee

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octopi said:
Yep, he was wearing short shorts and sitting with his legs splayed, and they were doing full body shots. Wonder if they were trying to make up for the Jessica Simpson in a bikini video they keep showing.And don't get me started on Landsberg's obsession with then underage Kournikova 2 years ago_Or that he has to bring in supermodels. That show is really turning into a T& A parade, which is sad, because it really can stand by itself most days.

A T&A parade. I'm trying to imagine the show director yelling to the camera guy,'quick,his crotch, we need a shot of Larry's inner,upper thigh.' I actually enjoy the show in spite of the host.
 

octopi

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mcphee said:
A T&A parade. I'm trying to imagine the show director yelling to the camera guy,'quick,his crotch, we need a shot of Larry's inner,upper thigh.' I actually enjoy the show in spite of the host.

Yeah, I generally enjoy the show in spite of all the T&A stuff, which I think, ummm...tarts it up more than need be.
 

Big Phil

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Nov 2, 2003
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ChillyWilly said:
Gretzky

Someone that nice and everything usually has the most issues that are hidden away in the closet, he could be a bigger freak than Michael Jackson and we would never know because he had a Master lock on his closet door chock full of his weirdness. Also pisses me off how he is considered great, the guy was sheltered on the ice and scored bunches in an era where scoring was the biggest joke, of course he would get 200pts no one freakin touched the guy. He was literally playing pond hockey with body guards protecting him. You can kiss my you know what if people have a problem with me not liking "The Great One."


Yeah you're right what's up with that! 200 pts is NOTHING! Who cares if no one else has that. He is WAY overrated. Eveyone has 4 Cups 10 scoring titles and 8 Hart Trophies! By the way just for fun I'll look at how bad Gretzky was in his prime, take a look!

'82: 212 points, next Best Bossy at 147
'83: 196 points, next best Stastny at 124
'84: 205 points, next best Coffey at 126
'85: 208 points, next best Kurri at 135
'86: 215 points, next best Lemieux at 141
'87: 183 points, next best Kurri at 108
'91: 163 points, next best Hull at 131

Terrible eh? Do you know that their are four of those seasons that Gretzky would have led the league in scoring just based on his assists? And all of those guys that are second to him in scoring are all HOFers or in Hull's case going to be. Also in '86 Gretzky had 163 assists. Only Lemieux has ever had that many POINTS in a season. Like him or not you HAVE to respect his stats they are insane! And if 200 points is so easy then why hasnt anyone else done it? Lemieux had 199, but that's it. So even in the 80s of those point totals were so easy then why did no one come in the same universe as him?

Please man, understand Hockey before you make a fool of yourself this is supposed to be a board for Hockey educated people.
 

Bring Back Bucky

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KOVALEV10 said:
Excellent post. Mario was obviously better goal scorer then Wayne that's for damn sure. Mario's goals were actually great goals like dekes and incredible top corner shots while Gretzky were more ugly looking 5 hole goals and lucky bounces or simply getting great passes and finishing it off. Was Gretzky great? Hell yeah. Was he a better scorer then Mario? Hell no!

Plus Mario in 1991 and 1992 played a great 2 way game. That playoff year Mario played more defense then Gretzky ever did!


You guys love to talk out of both ends of your mouths. So was Gretzky surrounded by goons on the ice or was it great playmakers?? Seems like it is whatever supports whichever simple-minded middle school attack you are launching on Gretzky at the time.

I have to agree with Zopust, there should be a "Gretzky Bashing Thread". You and Chooch could spend all day in there calling Wayne a poopy head whooper upper and high five each other in cyberspace all the time, without ruining every blessed thread in the history forum. You could even send each other cute little messages via your own secret code. Back under the bridge with the billy goats gruff, trolls..
 

chooch*

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Ogopogo said:
I have no problem with you not liking Gretzky. Just admit the real reasons.

He pounded the crap out of the Canucks every time he stepped on the ice with them. It was embarrassing to watch the Oil and Vancouver in the 80s. I remember the 13-0 games. Stan Smyl and Thomas Gradin were helpless against the Gretzky onslaught.

You are jealous that Edmonton had the greatest player in the world and he beat you to death year after year after year.

There are actually nice, decent people in this world. Trying to conjure up some stupid Michael Jackson syndrome just shows the extreme level of your jealously. It's OK, you are not alone in that.

This is the post above that hijacked this thread , bucky. So long as you guys jump in with idiocies to pump up your hero, there will be counterpoints most of them intelligent.

You guys always miss the point about 99 so i'll lay it out for you:

he was not a god by any stretch as IMG has managed to convince guys like you.
Dont be fooled by stats


in fact ..bla bla bla...edmonton thought so highly of him they won the cup after dumping him..bla bla bla

he was a good player like many others in the 80's. They also deserve some credit.

btw werent you gonna give me a definition of "libel" - well here's one:how about implying Guy Lafleur had a drinking problem or was drunk when he had his accident. Care to back that one up, bucky? From news accounts of the day he fell asleep at the wheel at 4 in the morning on hwy 40; he wasnt swerving; wasnt charged with drinking; not a lot of kids playing on the road and at that time of day (maybe you?). also he didnt hit a pole. You owe an apology.

wheres your fizzle shizzle viagara (sic) avatar? cat got your tongue, bucky?
 
chooch said:
This is the post above that hijacked this thread , bucky. So long as you guys jump in with idiocies to pump up your hero, there will be counterpoints most of them intelligent.

You guys always miss the point about 99 so i'll lay it out for you:

he was not a god by any stretch as IMG has managed to convince guys like you.
Dont be fooled by stats


in fact ..bla bla bla...edmonton thought so highly of him they won the cup after dumping him..bla bla bla

he was a good player like many others in the 80's. They also deserve some credit.

btw werent you gonna give me a definition of "libel" - well here's one:how about implying Guy Lafleur had a drinking problem or was drunk when he had his accident. Care to back that one up, bucky? From news accounts of the day he fell asleep at the wheel at 4 in the morning on hwy 40; he wasnt swerving; wasnt charged with drinking; not a lot of kids playing on the road and at that time of day (maybe you?). also he didnt hit a pole. You owe an apology.

wheres your fizzle shizzle viagara (sic) avatar? cat got your tongue, bucky?

Sad. :shakehead
 

Bring Back Bucky

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chooch said:
This is the post above that hijacked this thread , bucky. So long as you guys jump in with idiocies to pump up your hero, there will be counterpoints most of them intelligent.

You guys always miss the point about 99 so i'll lay it out for you:

he was not a god by any stretch as IMG has managed to convince guys like you.
Dont be fooled by stats


in fact ..bla bla bla...edmonton thought so highly of him they won the cup after dumping him..bla bla bla

he was a good player like many others in the 80's. They also deserve some credit.

btw werent you gonna give me a definition of "libel" - well here's one:how about implying Guy Lafleur had a drinking problem or was drunk when he had his accident. Care to back that one up, bucky? From news accounts of the day he fell asleep at the wheel at 4 in the morning on hwy 40; he wasnt swerving; wasnt charged with drinking; not a lot of kids playing on the road and at that time of day (maybe you?). also he didnt hit a pole. You owe an apology.

wheres your fizzle shizzle viagara (sic) avatar? cat got your tongue, bucky?


I'm sure your pharmacist or physician would be happy to help you understand the benefits / risks of viagra.
 

God Bless Canada

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Jul 11, 2004
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I'll get a couple more names in before another thread gets closed:

*David Frost. If Danton had succeeded in his murder for hire plot against Frost, then Danton should have received the Order of Canada. Frost is one of the biggest low-lifes ever associated with the game, up there with Eagleson and Graham James. Teams refuse to take players associated with him. (Witness Sheldon Keefe falling to the 2nd round in 1999). In perhaps one of the most reprehensible acts in recent memory, Keefe's older brother (a Danton associate) sneak attacked and beat senseless Danton's younger brother (who won't associate with Frost). No connection here, eh?
*Graham James. Perhaps the most reprehensible act in hockey history. He twice violated the sacred trust between a player and a coach. The guy should still be in prison, but Canada's lenient justice system released him a few months after the trial. Believe it or not, he was once named Inside Hockey's Man of the Year for his quest to remove fighting from the game and have proper off-ice conduct from his players. Even more shocking is he was coaching in Spain a few years ago.
 

Bring Back Bucky

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God Bless Canada said:
I'll get a couple more names in before another thread gets closed:

*David Frost. If Danton had succeeded in his murder for hire plot against Frost, then Danton should have received the Order of Canada. Frost is one of the biggest low-lifes ever associated with the game, up there with Eagleson and Graham James. Teams refuse to take players associated with him. (Witness Sheldon Keefe falling to the 2nd round in 1999). In perhaps one of the most reprehensible acts in recent memory, Keefe's older brother (a Danton associate) sneak attacked and beat senseless Danton's younger brother (who won't associate with Frost). No connection here, eh?*Graham James. Perhaps the most reprehensible act in hockey history. He twice violated the sacred trust between a player and a coach. The guy should still be in prison, but Canada's lenient justice system released him a few months after the trial. Believe it or not, he was once named Inside Hockey's Man of the Year for his quest to remove fighting from the game and have proper off-ice conduct from his players. Even more shocking is he was coaching in Spain a few years ago.


Yeah, Frost is a real peach, isn't he?? Danton's behavior certainly appears more bizarre than evil..
 

KOVALEV10*

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Bring Back Bucky said:
You guys love to talk out of both ends of your mouths. So was Gretzky surrounded by goons on the ice or was it great playmakers?? Seems like it is whatever supports whichever simple-minded middle school attack you are launching on Gretzky at the time.

I have to agree with Zopust, there should be a "Gretzky Bashing Thread". You and Chooch could spend all day in there calling Wayne a poopy head whooper upper and high five each other in cyberspace all the time, without ruining every blessed thread in the history forum. You could even send each other cute little messages via your own secret code. Back under the bridge with the billy goats gruff, trolls..

Gretzky played with Jari Kurri who was a great playmaker and 2 way player who created space for Wayne and so did the left winger who was mostly one of the goons. Gretzky was like in an all star game every night. Kurri and Gretzky fed off of each other very well and both owe each other their success. Dont make it sound like Gretzky did everything by himself.
 

mattihp

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KOVALEV10 said:
Gretzky played with Jari Kurri who was a great playmaker and 2 way player who created space for Wayne and so did the left winger who was mostly one of the goons. Gretzky was like in an all star game every night. Kurri and Gretzky fed off of each other very well and both owe each other their success. Dont make it sound like Gretzky did everything by himself.
As a finnish fan I'd say that Kurri had problems entering his own zone before pretty late in his career... And his playmaking wasn't his forté, it was his shooting. He is also the only known player in the league to complain on Gretzky's passes ^^

"The positioning is perfect and so... But I need hard passes, like shots on my blade to get some skating speed without having the weight of the puck on my blade" would be a translation of something he once said to a finnish newspaper a looong time ago.
 
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