Hockey of the past vs today

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by Sentinel, Dec 10, 2018.

  1. Mike Farkas

    Mike Farkas Grace Personified

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    Who said peewee?

    "Destroy" = opposite of create. Use short shifts/speed to curtail opponent creation. Easier to destroy than create.
     
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  2. wetcoast

    wetcoast Registered User

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    No it really doesn't.

    A simple eye test of goalies and their equipment size is a more rational explanation.

    Also it's weird to use Ovechkin as an example of not scoring when his dominance in that reguard is probably the best of all time over a sustained and prolonged period.
     
  3. wetcoast

    wetcoast Registered User

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    No you are right those players didn't need a signature spot due to much more open net and lesser goalie equipment and less structured defences.
     
  4. TheEye

    TheEye Registered User

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    If you feel the need to straw man your way out of this, that's fine, as I'm not going to begin debating this topic on multiple fronts. That said, from a historical perspective, Ovechkin does indeed execute his shot incredibly quickly and even when he doesn't he's still a remarkably dangerous shooter. I have a hard time accepting that one could not see that, as it's patently obvious to an impartial observer.
     
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  5. Canadiens1958

    Canadiens1958 Registered User

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    Not reflected by league results at midseason. Last season TG/G 5.94, 2018-19 to date 6.12. SV% are down- 0.904 from 0.908.

    Ovi,S% at 18.8% from 13.8%, last year trending to the 320-325 range.

    Reflects an improvement in Ovi's game , not league trends.
     
  6. Canadiens1958

    Canadiens1958 Registered User

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    Watching more hockey lately. Defences are even more structured.Players with a signature spot become easier to find and defend.

    Other factors you list are very marginal with almost zero impact.
     
  7. wetcoast

    wetcoast Registered User

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    Your original comment was about signature spots on the ice and why earlier players didn't need them.

    Goaltending equipment and systematic defense hasn't changed much at all during Ovechkins career.
     
  8. wetcoast

    wetcoast Registered User

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    So the size of the goalie equipment has had almost zero impact?

    That's a very weak arguement to defend with the facts.
     
  9. streitz

    streitz Registered User

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    Well he just defended it with facts.
     
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  10. Canadiens1958

    Canadiens1958 Registered User

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  11. wetcoast

    wetcoast Registered User

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    The original comment was about other players or needing "signature spots" in comparison to Ovechkin

    Obviously goaltendng equipment and team defensive schemes have drastically altered in the last 40 years.
     
  12. wetcoast

    wetcoast Registered User

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    See the post above.
     
  13. Canadiens1958

    Canadiens1958 Registered User

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    No the comment was about signature spots being a recent 20+ year phenomena. Previously players were adept at finding open in the offensive cylinder defined by the two defensive faceoff dots.
     
  14. wetcoast

    wetcoast Registered User

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    And they still are, the biggest differences being the goaltending equipment combined with the defensive schemes and shot blocking ect.....
     
  15. Canadiens1958

    Canadiens1958 Registered User

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    So if in vogue you should be able to name signature spots for three forwards per 2018-19 NHL team.

    Meanwhile 1967 Bobby Hull 3 goal game.

     
  16. wetcoast

    wetcoast Registered User

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    Well you were the one bringing up signature spots not me.

    I can't even see the goalposts anymore that's how far you have moved them.
     
  17. Canadiens1958

    Canadiens1958 Registered User

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    Signature spots were introduced by another poster.

    Good luck in life.
     
  18. wetcoast

    wetcoast Registered User

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    well this is emberassing....for you.
    You are the one that brought it up before the moving of the goalposts and avoidance of what you wrote.

    Your take on Ovechkin the last 2 pages really describes a much lesser player than the one we all see out there.

    It will be very interesting to see the voting results after the top 100 players is done.
     
  19. BraveCanadian

    BraveCanadian Registered User

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    Because you're picking and choosing to try and make your argument. Nova Scotia is still Canada, probably as many countries are down as up (the USA fills in the gaps with mostly depth players).. meanwhile the baby boom has passed and hockey is more expensive than ever. Oh, and there are way more professional teams. Both in the NHL and competing leagues like the KHL etc.

    It is not nearly as simple as people think when they believe (not backed up by the facts) that somehow today's pool of available hockey talent is automatically better than the past.
     
  20. wetcoast

    wetcoast Registered User

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    Yes but you are really missing the boat here in that BC and Novia Scotia radically had more elite players post 1970 in the NHL.

    The only country down from the 70's is Canada, that despite increased elite talent from BC and Novia scotia.

    Not sure on how this is all that relevant.

    Is not the NHL choke full of talent right now?

    Really the not backed up by facts part?

    My whole argument(s) was about the facts I presented.
     
  21. Theokritos

    Theokritos Moderator

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    Not in the first place, no. It was originally brought up in the following post, which you BTW liked:

     
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  22. Canadiens1958

    Canadiens1958 Registered User

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    Thank you..
     
  23. wetcoast

    wetcoast Registered User

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    Sure which was in response to this quote.

    So technically the post before brought it up and then he responded, still doesn't take away the shifting responses to avoid the initial assertions made.

    Then he went on to say this and then only responded to Ovechkin in 17-18 compared to 18-19 and not to the past (this following quote) that was brought up by him.

    I guess Esposito was called the slot machine for his love of Vegas not his positioning on the ice.

    If he doesn't want to answer the question and instead create more noise that's fine, readers can make up their own conclusions.

    My points still stand and the video provided was quite clear in 1967 goalies and defenses would never be confused with Ovechkin era goalies and defensive schemes.

    The distraction and avoidance of backing up assertions such as Ovechkin does not execute his shot quickly before the goalie makes his reads. Lost skill, as quite clear here.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
  24. Canadiens1958

    Canadiens1958 Registered User

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    Slot is a fairly large area not a signature spot, which is a very limited area.

    Also Esposito was not a blaster, no one talked about his shot. Esposito was a master of re-directs, quick release on rebounds( forehand and backhand) and passes from the boards, getting his shot on net before the goalie was set.
     
  25. wetcoast

    wetcoast Registered User

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    And Ovechkin scores plenty of goals outside of his "signature spot" as well.

    The claim that he doesn't execute his shot quickly and that it's a lost skill (executing ones shot) really doesn't translate into actually watching NHL games currently.
     

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