Hockey mom wants daughter allowed in boys' change room

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mydnyte

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Sep 8, 2004
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do they let boys play in the womens leagues ...nope ...so, i dont know why/how society can permit this type of bias.
 

4thLineGoon

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Ogopogo said:
Why do we have separate men's and women's bathrooms in society? It ain't proper for opposite sexes to get dressed together.

I thought we had seperate bathrooms so I wouldn't have to smell/listen to some girl taking a nasty dump, which would cause me to be unable to ever have sex with her.
 

McDonald19

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4thLineGoon said:
I thought we had seperate bathrooms so I wouldn't have to smell/listen to some girl taking a nasty dump, which would cause me to be unable to ever have sex with her.

yeah like the scene from "Harold and Kumar go to WhiteCastle"
 

LaLaLaprise

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RedK said:
I'm with Canadahockeygirl. I'm a female player. I've been on teams where I've changed with my male teammates, and I've been on teams where we were separate. It's never been a big deal when I want to change with the guys. Changing away from them makes it very difficult to be a full part of the team.

As for the risks, if your team is going to focus and bond around sex, they are going to do it no matter who is in the locker room or where the female player is. Will she have to ride to the game in a separate car so she won't be the only girl on the bus with them? Not attend team functions so she won't be the only girl?

Girls and women take risks merely by existing. There's nothing we can do to make ourselves completely safe from ****, assault, harrassment, theft, murder or anything else. But if a girl has to worry about this sort of stuff from her teammates, then the team has a whole lot bigger problems than whether there is a girl changing on the bench next to you.


Ok first of all youve never been in a change room with ALL guys (no girls) so you dont know how the guys act WITH and WITHOUT a girl in there. You may think the way they act with a girl is normal and how they act all the time, but i can GAURENTEE you that they let up.
 
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LaLaLaprise

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What people are missing is it DOES NOT MATTER how comfortable a woman is in the guys change room. If guys were comfortable in the womens change rooms would we be allowed in? Hell no.

Having a girl in the guys change rooms makes some guys nervous. You dont know where that fine line is and how the girl will re-act. 20 guys in a change room act differently than 20 guys and 1 girl. Girls will dispute this but they have never been in the room when girls arent present. If you think a hockey locker room is bad when a girl is in the room, multipy that by 5 and thats how it is when its all guys.

There are Male and Female restrooms for a reason.
 

FearTheFlyers

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The argument that if women can play with men then men sshould be able to play with women is laughable. There is simply nowhere else for an average female hockey player to play if she wishes to move to a different level of competition. Whereas men who need to take a step down can simply slide into a beer league or low level hockey, not switch into women`s hockey.

Kids, no. You don`t want a 12 or 13 year old girl in a locker room because it creates a potentially dangerous situation.

But if anyone thinks someone like Canadahockeygirl shouldn`t be allowed to play in a men`s league they are nuts.She and her teammates are clearly mature enough to not let a stupid situation like this overcome the team.
 

Anthony Mauro

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La-La-Laprise said:
What people are missing is it DOES NOT MATTER how comfortable a woman is in the guys change room. If guys were comfortable in the womens change rooms would we be allowed in? Hell no.

Having a girl in the guys change rooms makes some guys nervous. You dont know where that fine line is and how the girl will re-act. 20 guys in a change room act differently than 20 guys and 1 girl. Girls will dispute this but they have never been in the room when girls arent present. If you think a hockey locker room is bad when a girl is in the room, multipy that by 5 and thats how it is when its all guys.

There are Male and Female restrooms for a reason.

No doubt. Playing High School hockey was one of the most vulgar things I've experienced lol. With rich kids spouting their mouths when daddy and mommy weren't around it was a different type of say atmosphere. Name calling, inappropriate actions, all that jazz. I don't know how other types of leagues and teams would act with a girl around, but even with a toned down lockerroom version I'd have to call the parent's morons if they let their daughter be around that environment. I know for damn sure I wouldn't let mine or won't when the time comes.

I can't even believe this parent is pushing it. :cry:
 

canadahockeygirl*

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It could definetly be that way in europe or overseas but I know for a fact that 17 of 23 girls on my local college team were lesbians. They are very open and honest about it and a friend of mine (one of the 6 not lesbians) said they were very crude and nasty. And just when dudes think "yes hot lesbians" you are quickly assured that these are not of the hot variety but the " Hey is that your little brother? Ohhh my bad, thats Suzy from the hockey team" "when did she shave a buzz cut and start wearing army pants" :thumbd:
Oh there are definitely a bunch of lesbians on the female hockey teams I've played on. I think the last team I played on, only five (six if you include me) were not lesbians. However, on my HS team, only three were.
 

Mxpunk

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No. I'm not trying to be sexist, but I think the benefits of such an arrangement are SEVERELY outweighed by the costs and potential problems. This can lead to sexual harassment, assault, etc. Not only that, but as boys get older, they'll surely tease the girl, or she will get those glances in the locker room...What is the benefit of allowing a girl to change in the same locker room? Can't she come in to the locker room when everyone is changed and listen in on the team meetings?

Moreover, do you think most girls would really want to be the only the girl in the locker room? I doubt it....

I've played on A LOT of hockey teams, and there are tons of sex jokes that go around the locker room before and after practice...Do you think the girls really want to be a part/target of that?
 

Air

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Moreover, do you think most girls would really want to be the only the girl in the locker room? I doubt it....

Well, sort of. (Read on)

I just want to point out that a lot of this is happening in the NHL. Sort of. Female reporters and journalists are allowed in dressing rooms, where players are just coming from the shower and barely dressed. (Remember that video a while ago of some guy being interviewed while his teammate was showering naked in the background?) I know it's not the same thing because journalists aren't getting naked, but it's still equally as embarrassing for the girls because these are, after all, bucknaked athletes.

What people are missing is it DOES NOT MATTER how comfortable a woman is in the guys change room. If guys were comfortable in the womens change rooms would we be allowed in? Hell no.

Male journalists go into female dressing rooms. I think that was on an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond once.

No doubt. Playing High School hockey was one of the most vulgar things I've experienced lol. With rich kids spouting their mouths when daddy and mommy weren't around it was a different type of say atmosphere. Name calling, inappropriate actions, all that jazz. I don't know how other types of leagues and teams would act with a girl around, but even with a toned down lockerroom version I'd have to call the parent's morons if they let their daughter be around that environment. I know for damn sure I wouldn't let mine or won't when the time comes.

I'm guessing you're talking about a "Junior Hockey Bible" (before they got sued) kind of environment? I don't know, I'm kind of uncomfortable with that because I've always heard it being described as wrong to be in that kind of environment, but I've never heard anything about that type of environment being ... ill-suited, itself, for kids that age, regardless of gender. Like, why would it be okay for guys to do that but not for girls to see it? (If I'm understanding you correctly?) Is the behaviour just universally accepted?
 

Vincent_TheGreat

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OilerNut said:
http://www.canada.com/ottawa/ottawa....html?id=2aa28604-33b0-4d73-951f-1e5d56eb62f4

Basically what the story says is that the daughters mother feels as though her daughter should be allowed to be in the same dressing room as the guys.

I think its complete ********, I happen to play rec hockey and after and before the game there are guys walking around the locker room nude, showering, getting changed, etc. How can you feel comfortable doing that when there are girls in there as well?

Absolutely not. Is this mom Pejorative Slured. Guys walking around naked in front of her daughter, ah no biggie! No seperations, come on its a change room. How bout we merge washrooms and change rooms in public places. You just know nothing good would come of this! I would go to no dress code, HA, I'd take off my equipment down till I'm naked and walk by the girls for the fun if it, how's that! Huh, how's that for camaraderie? Rights ar being violated, HA. Any bets that this girl is a feminist???
 

King'sPawn

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The mom wants her daughter to dress with the boys, and is okay if she's exposed to it. Did she ever think that, maybe, a couple parents of the boys would be uncomfortable with having their son dress with a girl or two? Seems fairly shortsighted and selfish on the mom's part.

Even if every parent agreed to it, I just do not think it's appropriate for girls and boys under 18 to dress with each other. When they're over 18, it's just a bad idea.
 

Bileur

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If this goes through i'm joining a womens rec league and insisting on changing in their lockeroom.
 

LaLaLaprise

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Air said:
Well, sort of. (Read on)

I just want to point out that a lot of this is happening in the NHL. Sort of. Female reporters and journalists are allowed in dressing rooms, where players are just coming from the shower and barely dressed. (Remember that video a while ago of some guy being interviewed while his teammate was showering naked in the background?) I know it's not the same thing because journalists aren't getting naked, but it's still equally as embarrassing for the girls because these are, after all, bucknaked athletes.

And ask any of those female reporters and they will tell you they are uncomfortable to be in that position and they get harassed.
 

Holly Gunning

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La-La-Laprise said:
And ask any of those female reporters and they will tell you they are uncomfortable to be in that position and they get harassed.
Any? That's quite presumptuous. No, very.

I do both things under discussion here, reporting in the locker room, and dressing with my team. Neither are as big of a deal as all of you are making them. Amongst adults at least, which is what I can speak to.

I do prefer the player I am writing a feature on to shower, dress and come into the hallway to talk to me, but mostly because then we are in a quieter place, and can take more time talking. Locker rooms are loud and busy and not conducive to any good conversation. But I have less pressing deadlines than most reporters, so I have that luxury.

I play rec hockey on a mostly men's team. Of course I dress with them, the locker room is assigned to the team, not to the men on the team. Half the fun of playing hockey is the friends you make. I wouldn't miss it.

Now, of course I'm an adult dealing with adults. It's no problem. Teenagers, I would agree are a completely different animal. But forcing someone to dress in the hall is crap, that's for sure. Until there is equal space for everyone, there may not be a way around having everyone on the team dress in the same place.
 

LaLaLaprise

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Holly Gunning said:
Any? That's quite presumptuous. No, very.

I do both things under discussion here, reporting in the locker room, and dressing with my team. Neither are as big of a deal as all of you are making them. Amongst adults at least, which is what I can speak to.

I do prefer the player I am writing a feature on to shower, dress and come into the hallway to talk to me, but mostly because then we are in a quieter place, and can take more time talking. Locker rooms are loud and busy and not conducive to any good conversation. But I have less pressing deadlines than most reporters, so I have that luxury.

I play rec hockey on a mostly men's team. Of course I dress with them, the locker room is assigned to the team, not to the men on the team. Half the fun of playing hockey is the friends you make. I wouldn't miss it.

Now, of course I'm an adult dealing with adults. It's no problem. Teenagers, I would agree are a completely different animal. But forcing someone to dress in the hall is crap, that's for sure. Until there is equal space for everyone, there may not be a way around having everyone on the team dress in the same place.

Amonst adults and amonst 14 year olds is completly different, I think that is what most people have a problem with. When youre an adult youre better equiped to handle situations that may arise, when youre 14 i doubt thats possible.
 

canadahockeygirl*

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Again, I think a lot of you are underestimating what women can handle.

Either that or you're so woman-like yourselves that you couldn't handle the "traumas" of the locker room despite being the same gender as what you're changing in.

The argument that "fine, well, I'll just go play with women" is stupid. The reason there is women's hockey (and I mean this to no offense to any women's hockey player reading) is that women NOW for the most part weren't introduced to the game at an early age and can't keep up with the men. Most women's teams are beginner level. Granted in the US (especially in MA) there has been a recent boom of girls hockey at both the beginner and competitive levels, so when they get older they will have the chance to continue playing on a competitive level with women. They won't have to cross over and play with men unless they're in an area that doesn't have that option. Case in point-- the only competitive womens teams in the Boston area are travel teams that play at least an hour from where I live. Why should I waste the time commuting when I have an equally competitive mens league at the rink at school? One day that won't be an issue. Men have tons of options available to them at any level. There is really no need for a man to be playing women's hockey unless he just wants the extra ice time. And I have been part of a team that allowed two men on it who weren't exactly the best players. They played in games and completely dominated since their "not being good" was heads and shoulders above the beginner level of these women.

Holly, you bring up another great point-- most rinks don't have enough changing rooms to segregate men and women if there are multiple teams using the facility. One of the rinks I used to play at had 3 rinks, 6 changing rooms, and a separate bathroom that wasn't attached by any runners to the rinks. I'd change down to skin in the bathroom, run all the way back to rinkside in my sports bra and shorts to where my skates and pads would be and put them on. If there was a line in the ladies room, it would take longer for me to get dressed. When the teams are changing and you want your female player to go elsewhere, her choice is very limited, and often less safe than a locker room.
 

Anthony Mauro

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canadahockeygirl said:
Either that or you're so woman-like yourselves that you couldn't handle the "traumas" of the locker room despite being the same gender as what you're changing in.

I dont know what kind of a butch, manly woman you're pretending to be but its not about "handling" anything. Anyone who likes hockey would put up with some pretty bad things to play the game they love. Its about subjecting women to this nature of the mens lockerroom. Its not ladylike and feminine to have a woman cursing and jerking around with the guys no matter what you say you're comfortable with. Nor is it right to have a women there listening in and getting that junk thrown around in front of her. There's a place for women and thats not one of them MO. It shouldn't be about pretending to be one of the guys.

Either way you cut it, that was a poor attempt at making fun of guys who are trying to shed light and make sure little girls aren't put in a situation that could be harmful.
 

DJmastamind

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Balej's Dance said:
I dont know what kind of a butch, manly woman you're pretending to be but its not about "handling" anything. Anyone who likes hockey would put up with some pretty bad things to play the game they love. Its about subjecting women to this nature of the mens lockerroom. Its not ladylike and feminine to have a woman cursing and jerking around with the guys no matter what you say you're comfortable with. Nor is it right to have a women there listening in and getting that junk thrown around in front of her. There's a place for women and thats not one of them MO. It shouldn't be about pretending to be one of the guys.

Either way you cut it, that was a poor attempt at making fun of guys who are trying to shed light and make sure little girls aren't put in a situation that could be harmful.


Again i agree. I've played hockey since I was 4. I've played men's and women's hockey. I'm a high level player, and men play at that level. Women's hockey isn't usually that competitive, but this isn't about who is competitive or not.

This is about sharing lockerroom and the consequences that come with it. Yea I know the women want to be equals, but what goes on in a men's lockerroom isn't appropriate for women to be around, and vice vera. Guys, women can be just as vulguar, BUT that still doesn't mean I think shared lockerrooms is a good idea. Just too much could happen. Mental abuse, and quite possibly physical abuse, whatnot.

Plain and simple isn't NOT a good idea
 

LaLaLaprise

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Has anyone ever thought that the guys may be nervous about this? Ok so some girls are fine with it, and this 14 year old giorls mother is fine with it but what about the 20 other 14 year olds boys and their 40 parents. What if they arent fine with it?


Its a 2-way street that some people are failing to recognize.
 

santiclaws

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Putting aside any issues of being or not being able to "handle" it, any league which allowed girls to dress in the same locker room with boys would be begging to be sued--for a remark, some lewd act, not to mention even worse scenarios.

I would not want the future of a league to rest on the shoulders of dozens of 14-year-old boys in the hopes that they behave themselves. Even if every single one of them does behave, that hardly means that lawsuits won't happen.
 

Rusty Shackleford

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Well just 3 years ago when I was 14 there a girl on my rep team and apparently one time at a pratice( I wasn't there) this bonehead on our team let his urges get to him and got charged with Sexual Harrassment AND Sexual Abuse.

Apparently it was rather sick according to some players and I'm glad I wasn't there.
 

kingsfan

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GagneOwnsYou said:
The argument that if women can play with men then men sshould be able to play with women is laughable. There is simply nowhere else for an average female hockey player to play if she wishes to move to a different level of competition. Whereas men who need to take a step down can simply slide into a beer league or low level hockey, not switch into women`s hockey.

Women's hockey is non-contact, where as most men and beer leagues aren't. What if a guy wants to play in a non-contact league and his only option is the woman's league? I guess that's laughable rather than fair though. Bottom line is, what the goose wants, the gander should be able to get too. If women want to play with the men, the men should have the option to play with the women.

And as for there being no where else for an average female player to go, maybe that average female player should stick around to help develop the women's game rather than jump to the men's league. It's one thing if you want to do it so as to make a career out of it and make a living, like Wickenheiser did when she tried played in Europe a while back, but if we are talking 14-year-olds, try and help the women's game by playing with other women and helping them improve their game rather than jumping ship to the men.
 

Anthony Mauro

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kingsfan said:
And as for there being no where else for an average female player to go, maybe that average female player should stick around to help develop the women's game rather than jump to the men's league. It's one thing if you want to do it so as to make a career out of it and make a living, like Wickenheiser did when she tried played in Europe a while back, but if we are talking 14-year-olds, try and help the women's game by playing with other women and helping them improve their game rather than jumping ship to the men.

Thats another thing I was thinking about. Maybe if the leagues aren't up to your standards you could actually do some work and talk to your local rink about trying out and making a new league. If not alot of women show up and the league can't function, then jump ship to mens. But it seems like some women just wanna leave others in the dust.
 
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