Hockey is dying!!

statistics

Registered User
Dec 29, 2006
326
0
Finland
In the U.S. Soccer will never be popular...I'm in my mid 30's and growing up we looked at soccer as sport girls played like field hockey....

In the U.S. Soccer is a Fall Scholastic sport and the Fall is ruled by American Football.....You'll never in your life time see 20-30,000 fans for a High School Soccer game like you do for a High School football games in places across the U.S.

In High Schools around the U.S. we treat American football players as Royalty...Heck in my High School the soccer team wasn't even allowed to play on the main field because they didn't want it chewed up for the game on Friday night.


Why are you comparing american football to soccer? This topic is about soccer vs. hockey.
 

statistics

Registered User
Dec 29, 2006
326
0
Finland
In the U.S. Soccer will never be popular...I'm in my mid 30's and growing up we looked at soccer as sport girls played like field hockey....

In the U.S. Soccer is a Fall Scholastic sport and the Fall is ruled by American Football.....You'll never in your life time see 20-30,000 fans for a High School Soccer game like you do for a High School football games in places across the U.S.

In High Schools around the U.S. we treat American football players as Royalty...Heck in my High School the soccer team wasn't even allowed to play on the main field because they didn't want it chewed up for the game on Friday night.

Nobody care what happened in your high school 15-20 years ago. This topic is what is going to happen in the future. 10-20 years from now on. 15-20 years ago soccer virtually didn't exist in the USA.
 

Rocket

Registered User
Feb 3, 2007
297
0
New York, USA
Soccer is 90 minutes of scoreless futility, punctuated by bad acting (to draw penalties).

Frank Deford has soccer just right and explains why it will never take over the North American sports scene.

http://www.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/features/cover/news/2001/07/04/deford/

For every Frank Deford there's now one David Steele (Baltimore Sun) or Bill Simmons (known as the Sportsguy), who often claimed that he was a fan of every major sport except soccer but started following the English Premier league last year.


After years of rejecting it's pitch, I'm on soccer's side. - David Steele

Can a 41-year-old American male raised on football, basketball and baseball suddenly learn to love soccer?

Sure, one can. One just did.

One has just spent more time watching soccer in the past month than he had, collectively, in his entire life - and, with no warning and no preparation, suddenly gets what everyone has been talking about. Well, not everything. But the wall definitely is down.

I have crossed over. I like this sport - that's a notch below "I love this game," the slogan of my preferred sport, but I'm willing. I want to see more of it, at the highest level. I want to see where it might go in this country if a truce can somehow be declared and tensions eased between the fanatics and the haters. I may watch a Major League Soccer game. Better yet, I may attend one [that's even before Beckham's signing].

Times are definitely changing whether dinosaurs like Deford want to admit or not.
 
Last edited:

JimEIV

Registered User
Feb 19, 2003
65,688
27,889
Nobody care what happened in your high school 15-20 years ago. This topic is what is going to happen in the future. 10-20 years from now on. 15-20 years ago soccer virtually didn't exist in the USA.

The point is; In the U.S. and I would imagine this is true any place in the World, for a sport to take a foothold, it STARTS with Youth Sports.

All over the U.S. from the middle August to U.S. Thanksgiving Day everyone is focused on football in the U.S., our local newspaper cover the games, our local TV stations cover the power Rankings, the big College teams are looking for the next crop of recruits...Basically it dominates the entire Fall season.

That just happens to be the same exact time Soccer season is taking place here and no one here will ever care about any other sport being played during that time frame.


EDIT: Hockey on the hand begins when football ends in our youth sport seasons...So many of the kids who play football will also be playing hockey
 
Last edited:

Drewr15

Registered User
Jun 30, 2005
5,911
1
New Milford, CT
Nobody care what happened in your high school 15-20 years ago. This topic is what is going to happen in the future. 10-20 years from now on. 15-20 years ago soccer virtually didn't exist in the USA.

Actually I'd argue that it was more popular in the US then, as you had Pele in a US soccer league and a thriving indoor soccer league that got prime time national TV coverage in the 80s. Soccer was way more popular in the late 70s early 80s than it is now in the US. Its having a resurgence yes but I don't think its reached the levels it was back then.
 

GSC2k2*

Guest
The point is; In the U.S. and I would imagine this is true any place in the World, for a sport to take a foothold, it STARTS with Youth Sports.

All over the U.S. from the middle August to U.S. Thanksgiving Day everyone is focused on football in the U.S., our local newspaper cover the games, our local TV stations cover the power Rankings, the big College teams are looking for the next crop of recruits...Basically it dominates the entire Fall season.

That just happens to be the same exact time Soccer season is taking place here and no one here will ever care about any other sport being played during that time frame.


EDIT: Hockey on the hand begins when football ends in our youth sport seasons...So many of the kids who play football will also be playing hockey
Again, there is no evidence of a connection between pro sports interest and youth sports. The reverse is more probably true.
 

Rocket

Registered User
Feb 3, 2007
297
0
New York, USA
Soccer was way more popular in the late 70s early 80s than it is now in the US. Its having a resurgence yes but I don't think its reached the levels it was back then.

I'm not sure about that. Few teams like New York, Tampa Bay and Vancouver had huge crowds that brought the average attendance up while majority of the teams struggled to get 10,000. Even in the league's best year (1980), three teams drew less than 6,000 fans per game. I don't remember seeing an MLS team ever drawing less than 6k a season, even in it's worst. The median attendance was less than 12,000 that year, despite the teams spending themselves toward oblivion. Give me a billion dollars and I can make even a new cricket league 'popular' for couple of years. I won't be able to guarantee you any money back or the league's survival past year three though.

NASL Attendance: http://www.kenn.com/sports/soccer/nasl/index.html

Plus, if you compare the national team's popularity between the '70s/'80s and now it's not even close. A typical Team USA home game used to draw less than 2,000; a good portion of those were the players' friends and relatives. The games now average ten times that easily at a high ticket price, even for meaningless exhibitions.
 

OG6ix

Registered User
Apr 11, 2006
4,453
1,350
Toronto
There was an article I read in one of those business magazines a few months ago that said Hockey players were the hardest to market because they were groomed to be boring. I'm trying to see if their is an internet version of it. MLS players are more marketable being mostly from the U.S and well they seem to have more personality.
 

Drewr15

Registered User
Jun 30, 2005
5,911
1
New Milford, CT
I'm not sure about that. Few teams like New York, Tampa Bay and Vancouver had huge crowds that brought the average attendance up while majority of the teams struggled to get 10,000. Even in the league's best year (1980), three teams drew less than 6,000 fans per game. I don't remember seeing an MLS team ever drawing less than 6k a season, even in it's worst. The median attendance was less than 12,000 that year, despite the teams spending themselves toward oblivion. Give me a billion dollars and I can make even a new cricket league 'popular' for couple of years. I won't be able to guarantee you any money back or the league's survival past year three though.

NASL Attendance: http://www.kenn.com/sports/soccer/nasl/index.html

Plus, if you compare the national team's popularity between the '70s/'80s and now it's not even close. A typical Team USA home game used to draw less than 2,000; a good portion of those were the players' friends and relatives. The games now average ten times that easily at a high ticket price, even for meaningless exhibitions.

A team USA game yes but if you compare the average league attendance in the last 7 years of the NASL that you linked above and the current MLS the difference is a couple of thousand, and that's with alot less marketing money behind it than there is now. They gave season tickets away in the beginning to help boost the league popularity, as a matter of fact some teams still do. And as I said you had an indoor soccer league playing on network TV on friday nights (at least the NY arrows were in NY) so my response to the previous poster who claimed that soccer was not on the map in the US in the past still stands I feel. It was on the map, died out and has had a resurgence but when I compare the kids in my family and friends who don't watch soccer at all compared to myself (who never played it) but can still name tons of old NY Cosmos and Arrows players, I'd say the popularity is forced and not real. Not to mention that to do a true comparison you'd have to adjust for population growth in the country and in certain areas to level the playing field so really a three thousand average attendance difference 20 to 30 years later is not an increase in the end.
 

Joe MacMillan

Registered User
Aug 10, 2005
4,882
102
Helsinki
Soccer taking over in Finland? Can an average finnish person even name half of the teams that play in our so called soccer league? I know I can't.

The Champions League and English Premiership (or whatever it is called) are the only leagues that get attention and popularity to some extent in Finland, but the crappy 'Veikkausliiga' will never take over in here.
 

Butch 19

Go cart Mozart
May 12, 2006
16,526
2,831
Geographical Oddity
True - the Ducks hardly register at all here. But - they
It doesn't help that Versus is hardly distributed here at all and the Ducks local tv station is KDOC (some channel harder to find then versus).

That's not true.

I get KDOC (basic cable service, no extra charge)

I will not pay one extra dime for VS (extreme high ladder pay to view cable service)

I think the Ducks go to KDOC only when they get bumped off FSN by the Clippers or some women's Oregon/Cal basketball game or poker. I know, pretty embarassing.
 

johnny_rudeboy

Registered User
Mar 20, 2006
19,566
418
Karlstad
Soccer taking over in Finland? Can an average finnish person even name half of the teams that play in our so called soccer league? I know I can't.

The Champions League and English Premiership (or whatever it is called) are the only leagues that get attention and popularity to some extent in Finland, but the crappy 'Veikkausliiga' will never take over in here.


Teemu Tainio :bow:
 

vbet*

Guest
There was an article I read in one of those business magazines a few months ago that said Hockey players were the hardest to market because they were groomed to be boring. I'm trying to see if their is an internet version of it. MLS players are more marketable being mostly from the U.S and well they seem to have more personality.

If boring is staying out of jail, not beating up their wives or get weapons/drug charges, I'll take boring.

Or maybe we can have the new Cin Bengals hockey team. The problem is that you have to cross the border to play. Personally I'm amazed the NBA gets 1/2 the players into Canada to play the Rapters.
 

Greschner4

Registered User
Jan 21, 2005
871
222
You are reading it wrong. According to the graph, 3 of the 5 games had more English language viewers than Spanish. Two games that drew more Hispanic viewers had the Mexican national team involved (as expected). The final game also had 12 million English lang. viewers, compared to 5 million on Univision. And, even if you take out the Hispanic viewers completely the numbers still easily beat anything NHL had to offer. Imagine a first round game between Ecuador and England or Australia and Brazil drawing more English language viewers in America than the average Stanly Cup final game. Who would have predicted it 20 years ago? One of the most important facts about these numbers is that they continue to increase with each event when the ratings for other sports are in decline. As a soccer fan I'm very excited to think what another 20 years will bring.

I have nothing against hockey. I used to be a huge fan, about 10 years ago. There were seasons I had not missed a single Rangers game. I still miss those Gretzky, LaFontain, Graves, Leetch days even though the team was usually struggling to make the playoffs. But for some reason my interest waned every year until 2 years ago when it stopped completely with the lockout. NHL probably has a lot of work to do to win former fans like me back.

Why did you leave?
 

Greschner4

Registered User
Jan 21, 2005
871
222
I think the Galaxy are already getting a ton of press here in Southern California, not to mention Nationally, due to the signing of David Beckham. I think the day after he was signed the Galaxy sold 1000 more season tickets. That may sound like peanuts now but coupled with Beckham starring in that big Disney Ad campaign, his super bowl commercial and the exposure that comes from hanging around Tom Cruise and other celebs I think its safe to say that the Galaxy and the MLS will definitely get some added exposure. I spoke with Helene Elliott of the LA Times right after the signing and she said she'd be covering the Galaxy A LOT now with the signing of Beckham. The MLS is definitely headed in the right direction while the NHL seems to be headed in the wrong direction (in terms of exposure and ratings) The All Star game ratings were down 76%, the national contract with Versus gets a rating of just .2. The NHL definitely needs to promote itself better.

Hockey's got only itself to blame if it lets itself get bypassed in the US by soccer, of all sports. (And I'm speaking only business; I actually like soccer).

There's a loud chorus of sports commentators in the US who affirmatively DETEST soccer and have said so over and over. Hockey never had that disadvantage.
 

Greschner4

Registered User
Jan 21, 2005
871
222
Look I like hockey, but your are wrong. Soccer beats hockey in America in the future, because of:

- It's cheaper to play, than hockey
- It's less violent
- American population is changing (hispanic population is growing fast)
- Global warming (if global warming is not real. It's neutral, so at best hockey can break even)

Let's face it: hockey has been in America what 90 years? and it's not been very popular ever.

Hockey was more popular than the NBA in almost every US city that had both until the early 1990s. It wasn't even close in the 60s, 70s, and early 80s. The Bulls used to draw flies; the Blackhawks sold out all the time. The Bruins drew much better than the Celtics even though the Celtics won the championship all the time. The Red Wings outdrew the Pistons by light years. The Rangers outdrew the Knicks (and the pendulum has shifted back this way), and on and on.

The NHL has to answer the question of how it let this happen. First step to recovery.
 

Greschner4

Registered User
Jan 21, 2005
871
222
Look I like hockey, but your are wrong. Soccer beats hockey in America in the future, because of:

- It's cheaper to play, than hockey
- It's less violent
- American population is changing (hispanic population is growing fast)
- Global warming (if global warming is not real. It's neutral, so at best hockey can break even)

Let's face it: hockey has been in America what 90 years? and it's not been very popular ever.


The cost is a huge factor. The NHL should be investing huge money in the inner cities. Those kids are the future players and their parents are potential fans and the NHL does next to nothing to get them. You simply aren't going to be a major league sport -- inasmuch as you are never going to really "sink in" to the culture -- in the United States if you're perceived to be the white guy's sport and you'll have even more trouble if you actually are.

The number of non-white faces on the ice and in the stands at NHL games is pathetic ... and horrible for business.
 

statistics

Registered User
Dec 29, 2006
326
0
Finland
Soccer taking over in Finland? Can an average finnish person even name half of the teams that play in our so called soccer league? I know I can't.

The Champions League and English Premiership (or whatever it is called) are the only leagues that get attention and popularity to some extent in Finland, but the crappy 'Veikkausliiga' will never take over in here.

Veikkauliiga's average attendance has gone up last 4 season's and it's going to go up this season too, making it 5th straight season. SM-LIIGA's average attendance went down last season and it's going down again this season.

Soccer is getting more and more media time every year (check out Ilta-Sanomat and Iltalehti they write probably more about soccer than hockey nowadays).

National team is playing better than ever and they sell more tickets than ever. There's never been so many supporters who travels away games than nowadays. In Poland we had 500 supporters.
 

statistics

Registered User
Dec 29, 2006
326
0
Finland
Soccer taking over in Finland? Can an average finnish person even name half of the teams that play in our so called soccer league? I know I can't.

The Champions League and English Premiership (or whatever it is called) are the only leagues that get attention and popularity to some extent in Finland, but the crappy 'Veikkausliiga' will never take over in here.

Finns ain't what they used to be: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/feature?id=394704&cc=5739
 

statistics

Registered User
Dec 29, 2006
326
0
Finland
There was an article I read in one of those business magazines a few months ago that said Hockey players were the hardest to market because they were groomed to be boring. I'm trying to see if their is an internet version of it. MLS players are more marketable being mostly from the U.S and well they seem to have more personality.

+ Chicks like soccer more, than hockey. They can see more skin and players face better.
 

Jussi

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
91,022
10,992
Mojo Dojo Casa House
Congratulations - I'm now firmly convinced that you're trolling.

That's because he is. He's from a Finnish soccersite called Futisforum (1 or 2?). He already tried this thing over at the Finland board but we wouldn't have any of it so that thread died down rather quickly. I think you guys were much easier targets.
 

OG6ix

Registered User
Apr 11, 2006
4,453
1,350
Toronto
If boring is staying out of jail, not beating up their wives or get weapons/drug charges, I'll take boring.

Or maybe we can have the new Cin Bengals hockey team. The problem is that you have to cross the border to play. Personally I'm amazed the NBA gets 1/2 the players into Canada to play the Rapters.

Actually no, Personality as in they don't do interviews like complete stiffs filled with endless cliches. For example Jeremy Roenick is gold when it comes to personality, Sidney Crosby on the other hand is lame. You can see that Ovechkin has a good personality, but his lack of English is a killer.

You must have seen Crosby on Leno, it was one of the worst interviews I think Leno has ever had to endure. You can tell he was trying to wrap it up so he can get Crosby to shoot the puck into the Dryer.
 

statistics

Registered User
Dec 29, 2006
326
0
Finland
That's because he is. He's from a Finnish soccersite called Futisforum (1 or 2?). He already tried this thing over at the Finland board but we wouldn't have any of it so that thread died down rather quickly. I think you guys were much easier targets.

Please, go read my post (most are in hockey history board, check out my WHA vs. Europe post it's nothing but pure love to hockey statistics) and you can see, that I'm not a troll. You know what it's not illegal to like more than one sports. I love hockey and also love soccer. It's also legal to post more than one messageboard.

People usually call other people trolls, when they are run out of arguments.

It's a fact that veikkausliiga's average attendance is gone up 4 straight seasons. SM-LIIGA's average attendance is going down again this season. It's a fact too.

So can you show me some evidences how soccer is not getting more popular in Finland?
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->