GDT: Hockey is back! Pre-Season game 1. Jets vs. Wild 7:00pm

[Trilliann]

On plays along the boards. Nothing to do with points.

Huh??

the point is Scheifele wasn't in the NHL so we can't say he did better, we can't possibly know that

 

[Daximus]

Lets call a spade a spade. January of his draft year, I brought his name up in the draft thread we had running, and the feedback I got towards suggesting Stanley would be a potential draft pick was hostile and very critical.

There was hardly anything stated positively towards him on here, and it was not based on watching him.

It really does not matter I guess, we all want him to pan out for us, and he is looking very much like he will pan out.

I watched him quite a bit. More so for Sergachev as I thought he would be in our range for a pick before we won the lottom I identified him as a solid 3rd round target.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Lets call a spade a spade. January of his draft year, I brought his name up in the draft thread we had running, and the feedback I got towards suggesting Stanley would be a potential draft pick was hostile and very critical.

There was hardly anything stated positively towards him on here, and it was not based on watching him.

It really does not matter I guess, we all want him to pan out for us, and he is looking very much like he will pan out.

I really liked his progression from D+1 to D+2. I thought he should have been on the World Junior team. He was a nightmare to play against in Junior as a 19 year old. I just want him to be a solid number 4 guy in the NHL for us someday.

 

[Cellee]

the point is Scheifele wasn't in the NHL so we can't say he did better, we can't possibly know that

Scheifele was not in the NHL in his 2nd year? Huh? Plus you just said he played 11 games in his first year. Huh?

I think we are done here.

 

[Trilliann]

Scheifele was not in the NHL in his 2nd year? Huh? Plus you just said he played 11 games in his first year. Huh?

I think we are done here.

he played 7 games in his first year and 4 games in his second year.

 

[Cellee]

he played 7 games in his first year and 4 games in his second year.

So he played in the NHL. And Laine played a whole year in a men's league before coming over? He should have been more prepared to play against adult pro players.

That is the point.

 

[robertocarlos]

I think the Roslovic goal would of counted if preseason had reviews.

True, but we did not see the puck cross the goal line. It may have disappeared into thin air for all we know and only rematerialized when the goalie stood up.

 

[Daximus]

True, but we did not see the puck cross the goal line. It may have disappeared into thin air for all we know and only rematerialized when the goalie stood up.

That is possible. I always thought that if the opposing team knocks their own net off without help from the scoring team while the puck is about to cross the goal line it should count. That would have been a prime example of it last night.

 

[Trilliann]

So he played in the NHL. And Laine played a whole year in a men's league before coming over? He should have been more prepared to play against adult pro players.

That is the point.

Prepared enough not to get sent down.. Unfortunately we don't get to draft 25 year old finished products, we get teenagers and all of them have stuff to work on.

 

[robertocarlos]

That is possible. I always thought that if the opposing team knocks their own net off without help from the scoring team while the puck is about to cross the goal line it should count. That would have been a prime example of it last night.

Yes, It would have been a goal according to the rules as you mentioned. About to cross or did cross, it's a goal. Jets win! Oh wait, they did win. What are we arguing about?

 

[Howard Chuck]

On plays along the boards. Nothing to do with points.

Huh??

Lol, we need to dig up gifs of Scheif at 20 years old falling every time he was touched around the boards.

The GDTs where full of Schiefele Down! and cries of Bambi! and not to mention that he needed to be sent back to the A.

Actually that may have been his 21 year old year.

 

[Cellee]

For anyone who thinks being strong along the boards is not important to PM, check out what he had to say about Vesalainen after the game.

 

[Cellee]

Lol, we need to dig up gifs of Scheif at 20 years old falling every time he was touched around the boards.

The GDTs where full of Schiefele Down! and cries of Bambi! and not to mention that he needed to be sent back to the A.

Actually that may have been his 21 year old year.

Has nothing to do with me wanting Laine to be better along the boards.

I don't remember talking about how great Scheifele was in his first few years anyway along the boards. Scheifele fell down a lot all over, not just along the boards.

Laine needs to put the same work in to get better

 

[Atoyot]

He was not involved in as many playing Centre and I don't remember him having as hard a time as Laine.

Keep in mind Laine played in a men's league before coming over.

Do you not recall #ScheifeleDown and his affectionate nickname, Bambi? A soft breeze would knock him over. He redistributed his strength and lowered his center of gravity and now he's a beast on the boards. Takes longer for some more than others.

EDIT: Didn't see this all had been addressed.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Has nothing to do with me wanting Laine to be better along the boards.

I don't remember talking about how great Scheifele was in his first few years anyway along the boards. Scheifele fell down a lot all over, not just along the boards.

Laine needs to put the same work in to get better

I'm sure he will. Laine is light years ahead of Scheif and most other players at his age. I just think we need to temper our expectations a bit. He may win the Rocket, he may break more records, he may contribute more points this year, BUT he still has some work to do....... that's scary potential.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Do you not recall #ScheifeleDown and his affectionate nickname, Bambi? A soft breeze would knock him over. He redistributed his strength and lowered his center of gravity and now he's a beast on the boards. Takes longer for some more than others.

EDIT: Didn't see this all had been addressed.

It isn't taking Laine longer than Scheif though. How old was Schief when he finally could battle along the boards? 22? 23? We all keep forgetting how young and gangly Patrik is.

 

[garret9]

Lets call a spade a spade. January of his draft year, I brought his name up in the draft thread we had running, and the feedback I got towards suggesting Stanley would be a potential draft pick was hostile and very critical.

There was hardly anything stated positively towards him on here, and it was not based on watching him.

It really does not matter I guess, we all want him to pan out for us, and he is looking very much like he will pan out.

If we're calling a spade a spade, then we should appropriately attribute opinions as they were actually placed.

The vast majority of those who did not want him were all fairly similar:
Nothing against the player but viewed him as have low chance of being BPA where he is picked.

To me: He always looked like a guy who could make the NHL but viewed the combinations of risk/reward/ceiling/floor making him far less appealing to me than other players who could have been selected. It was about opportunity cost/value rather than the actual specific value. Thus far, I haven't had anything to suggest to me that I was wrong with that assumption.

^Most people were like this. They noticed the growth but the growth was along the lines of what many expected/projected of him when they had their reserves against drafting him at that position.

Now, some people after the draft view prospects as "what's done is done" and only watch the progression, others look at the work of each selection and the process behind it so they will comment and critique the specific decisions afterward, and continue to do so as more information arises. I don't think either way is wrong for a fan.

 

[garret9]

Double post. Dumb computer.

 

[koth]

Just putting it out there, but PCS viewed all 3 years as somewhat similar scoring rates relative to age... although the second year was viewed slightly, relatively better.

I don’t think people viewed him only drafted for size but merely size is an overvalued variable and so he was overvalued... overvalued doesn’t mean it has no value.

I think a lot of Jets fans holding PCS as holier-than-thou is big reason why so many were so down on Stanley even though they had never seen him play a game themselves.

 

[Spock]

Double post. Dumb computer.

This rather accurately describes Joe Morrow's "goal" last night; The computers could not speak.

 

[Cellee]

I'm sure he will. Laine is light years ahead of Scheif and most other players at his age. I just think we need to temper our expectations a bit. He may win the Rocket, he may break more records, he may contribute more points this year, BUT he still has some work to do....... that's scary potential.

I agree, but it is fine to point out things that are currently weak points that you hope improve.

 

[Cellee]

It isn't taking Laine longer than Scheif though. How old was Schief when he finally could battle along the boards? 22? 23? We all keep forgetting how young and gangly Patrik is.

This is not just a board battles thing. This is a making good plays along the boards with the puck thing. Not fighting for possession. Gotta be able to process and make quick decisions to move the puck out of your zone along the boards.

 

[Whileee]

Just putting it out there, but PCS viewed all 3 years as somewhat similar scoring rates relative to age... although the second year was viewed slightly, relatively better.

I don’t think people viewed him only drafted for size but merely size is an overvalued variable and so he was overvalued... overvalued doesn’t mean it has no value.

When will we see results from better models, that account more for context in junior production? This is particularly valid for production for junior defensemen. PP production is the simplest adjustment, which could be easily incorporated. Beyond that, I would think that production at a particular age is determined substantially by who else is on the team's defense, the style of play (defensemen in some systems score a lot more than in other systems), and the overall offensive productivity of a team.

I know that in statistical analyses a lot of these factors get evened out in the averages, but when you start to apply those averages to individuals it starts to become very dicey.

Stanley was clearly an underdeveloped "project" when drafted, but I think his statistical progress is underestimated because of context (lack of PP production by D on his team, lack of overall point production by D on the team, etc.).

I am certainly not arguing against statistical analysis - quite the opposite. I wish the statistical analysis was more refined.

 

[Daximus]

I think a lot of Jets fans holding PCS as holier-than-thou is big reason why so many were so down on Stanley even though they had never seen him play a game themselves.

There are likely a lot who never saw him play. I don't know a damn thing about PCS I just used my eyes. I must of watched him over a dozen times that season. And quite a few more in Kitchener. Didn't get any live viewings but to me it was always more about we likely could of had Clague and Johansen if we so wished, instead we got Stanley and Green which I don't see as being an equal pair. An opinion I still hold to this day. That is no knock on Stanley more a knock on the drafting strategy used.

 

[ijuka]

On plays along the boards. Nothing to do with points.

Huh??

How do you know how well Laine would do along the boards in a junior league? I think he'd do quite well.