Hockey fights - Tradition, Amusement, Deterrent, or Pure Evil? Discuss

[Chokingdogs]

I wouldn’t call it senseless, the fight. The fact it was OV made close tho.

That was a “welcome to the bigs” bout. The vet teaching the newbie what’s up. In the case last night, if a kid’s gonna play with a certain abrasive style, continuously, be prepared to answer the bell at some point.

Credit to him he did, and got whooped. He’ll think twice next time around. Doesn’t mean he won’t have that edge to his game, but should contain a little more.

 

[txpd]

You could make it a 5 game minimum and have it be longer for exceptional circumstances like if a dude jumps another guy from behind. There's no need to stand up for a teammate because Marchand, as crazy as he is, isn't going to fight Eller when he's staring down 5, 10, 20, etc. game suspensions.

You....don't know what you are talking about Twabs. I am trying to be on your side on this and you are making it impossible. Defending yourself in a fight is 5 games if you don't turtle? Dude. No

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Fighting would be far less prevalent at every level if refs did their jobs. I just watched Barzal get two minutes for whacking Dumoulin with his stick in retaliation for Dumoulin giving him 6-7 crosschecks across the back. That's when guys get mad and start looking at numbers. Similarly, the only fights I've ever seen in beer league happen when the refs are there just to collect their paycheck and they bury their whistles. Eventually guys are going to have enough and feel like they need to defend themselves. If NHL referees called penalties by the letter of the law and if the DOPS handed out appropriate suspensions that didn't seem like they were randomly picked out of a hat then the need for fighting would decrease pretty substantially, in my opinion.

 

[ALLCAPSALLTHETIME]

Fighting would be far less prevalent at every level if refs did their jobs. I just watched Barzal get two minutes for whacking Dumoulin with his stick in retaliation for Dumoulin giving him 6-7 crosschecks across the back. That's when guys get mad and start looking at numbers. Similarly, the only fights I've ever seen in beer league happen when the refs are there just to collect their paycheck and they bury their whistles. Eventually guys are going to have enough and feel like they need to defend themselves. If NHL referees called penalties by the letter of the law and if the DOPS handed out appropriate suspensions that didn't seem like they were randomly picked out of a hat then the need for fighting would decrease pretty substantially, in my opinion.

Yep. If proper reffing happened, I'd have no problem with getting g rid of fighting or phasing it out.

 

[twabby]

You....don't know what you are talking about Twabs. I am trying to be on your side on this and you are making it impossible. Defending yourself in a fight is 5 games if you don't turtle? Dude. No

I mentioned self-defense should go unpunished.

 

[Bananas]

Fighting is a great part of the sport, and now there are few if any goons who’s sole purpose is to fight. It’s in a good place in terms of how often it happens.

Your toughest players get in a handful of fights per year. Not sure why everyone is having a baby people have been punched in the face from time to time since the dawn of mankind.

Shit happens. Enjoy the ride.

 

[Calicaps]

Fighting would be far less prevalent at every level if refs did their jobs. I just watched Barzal get two minutes for whacking Dumoulin with his stick in retaliation for Dumoulin giving him 6-7 crosschecks across the back. That's when guys get mad and start looking at numbers. Similarly, the only fights I've ever seen in beer league happen when the refs are there just to collect their paycheck and they bury their whistles. Eventually guys are going to have enough and feel like they need to defend themselves. If NHL referees called penalties by the letter of the law and if the DOPS handed out appropriate suspensions that didn't seem like they were randomly picked out of a hat then the need for fighting would decrease pretty substantially, in my opinion.

This can't be overstated. And I would add that @Hivemind mentioned the NCAA which is a good point. College requires additional protective measures for its players such as face shields and automatic major and match penalties for head contact. Those provisions, along with pretty strict enforcement, effectively do a lot of the work that fighting does in the NHL. I would not personally want NHL players wearing full face protection and as far as majors for head contact, I'm not sure how realistic/workable it is at this level, but obviously there are many people who want to see it tried. Basically, to Abro's point, unless and until the league commits to much more stringent player protections, fighting will have a practical place in the game.

I should add that my formative hockey years were full of idiotic fights involving guys who couldn't do much else. I am not for that. I don't find it entertaining.

 

[txpd]

I mentioned self-defense should go unpunished.

I missed that. 5 games minimum isn't realistic. Next subject

 

[Hivemind]

I'm also onboard with full cages in the NHL (or cage/visor hybrids), even if for no other reason than it forces NHL players to actually strap on their helmet properly. Too many NHL players keep the chin strap far too loose, preventing the helmet from doing its job properly. Hell, there's a chance that Svechnikov's injury isn't as bad if his chin strap was actually secured properly last night, allowing his helmet to do a better job of cushioning impact when he fell to the ice (although it would have done nothing about Ovie's solid right connecting with his face).

I get shit from Canadian fans when I suggest this every so often on the main boards. But I don't see why US fans would be so alienated to the concept, considering playing youth hockey in the US is pretty much entirely played with full cages. I've literally never played hockey with anything but a full cage on.

I also don't buy "marketability" arguments, considering the NFL does just fine marketing players wearing caged helmets all the time, and there are plenty of cage/visor styles that enable people to see the players face.

 

[txpd]

Fighting would be far less prevalent at every level if refs did their jobs. I just watched Barzal get two minutes for whacking Dumoulin with his stick in retaliation for Dumoulin giving him 6-7 crosschecks across the back. That's when guys get mad and start looking at numbers. Similarly, the only fights I've ever seen in beer league happen when the refs are there just to collect their paycheck and they bury their whistles. Eventually guys are going to have enough and feel like they need to defend themselves. If NHL referees called penalties by the letter of the law and if the DOPS handed out appropriate suspensions that didn't seem like they were randomly picked out of a hat then the need for fighting would decrease pretty substantially, in my opinion.

Crosschecking is often pushing. Those were not penalties most of the time. Nobody gets hurt or taken out of a play with those. Swinging your stick is another thing entirely

 

[txpd]

I get **** from Canadian fans when I suggest this every so often on the main boards. But I don't see why US fans would be so alienated to the concept, considering playing youth hockey in the US is pretty much entirely played with full cages. I've literally never played hockey with anything but a full cage on.

I also don't buy "marketability" arguments, considering the NFL does just fine marketing players wearing caged helmets all the time, and there are plenty of cage/visor styles that enable people to see the players face.

Nobody watches hockey where cages are worn. They don't. Most NHL fans have never seen a youth or ncaa game or even a women's Olympic game. The NFL frame of reference is face masks. The NHL frame of reference is not. You can see the player's faces.

 

[g00n]

The puck is hard, you know. Maybe the boys need Nerf pucks for their little hockey game.

 

[g00n]

Nobody watches hockey where cages are worn. They don't. Most NHL fans have never seen a youth or ncaa game or even a women's Olympic game. The NFL frame of reference is face masks. The NHL frame of reference is not. You can see the player's faces.

Plus NFL players wear facemasks because there is constant impact there. Virtually every play some hand or other helmet is smashing into your face. It's a regular part of the game. In hockey how often is a guy hit in the face with anything? It's not part of the game. It's accidental.

At lower levels and in leagues with smaller audiences the cages are probably about LIABILITY for the organizers more than any indication of superior tactics.

 

[Hivemind]

Nobody watches hockey where cages are worn. They don't. Most NHL fans have never seen a youth or ncaa game or even a women's Olympic game. The NFL frame of reference is face masks. The NHL frame of reference is not. You can see the player's faces.

Hell, might as well take away goalie masks since they cover way more of the face than anything else. Protective gear is clearly only for wimps who want to play with nerf pucks.

 

[g00n]

LOL

 

[txpd]

Hilarious. Yea, goalies wear masks. What was I thinking?

 

[Hivemind]

Hilarious. Yea, goalies wear masks. What was I thinking?

Just pointing out how ridiculous the marketability/see their face perspective is. Goalies are still marketed heavily, despite the masks. The full cages used today can maintain far better face visibility than you gave them credit for. Faces will still be plenty visible for all the close-up action shots and bench shots in the broadcast.

And this is the perspective we get for 95% of the game anyway. It's not like any type of helmet/face shield is going to significantly impact how much of the players face we see, because the bottom line is we hardly see it now whenever the puck is in play.

 

[Calicaps]

Plus NFL players wear facemasks because there is constant impact there. Virtually every play some hand or other helmet is smashing into your face. It's a regular part of the game. In hockey how often is a guy hit in the face with anything? It's not part of the game. It's accidental.

At lower levels and in leagues with smaller audiences the cages are probably about LIABILITY for the organizers more than any indication of superior tactics.

you are correct, sir.

 

[txpd]

 

[txpd]

 

[g00n]

OMFG.

Goalie's paint their masks. That's a marketable, recognizable, personal trait on its own. It's not like they're wearing plain old school masks anymore.

Yikes.

 

[txpd]

 

[txpd]

 

[Hivemind]

 

[Bananas]

Don’t players have the choice of whether or not to fight, whether or not to wear a mask?

Let these men use their own judgement.