Hockey evolution: 90's -> 10's

[Zil]

Agreed. Especially when you are comparing a goalie with a couple of great but not all-time great regular seasons like Lundqvist with a first ballot HHOFer like Ed Belfour. If you're going to make an absolute statement like that which goes against what everyone who actually watched Belfour should have seen (especially if your avatar makes it clear you are from New York), you probably should back up your statement.

It was a response to a comment about not having great goalies now. I could've put forward Miller too or mentioned several other young goalies on the upturn. The point of the post though was to counter the angle that there are no comparable or great goalies now. That's simply not true. Just because the best guys now are in the middle of their careers, and therefore don't have comparable track records, does not make them inferior.

For the record, I've seen both CuJo and Belfour play. My statement may have been overly emphatic, but I don't see how that makes it necessarily wrong. It's not like Lundqvist has never won a big game before (gold medal 2006). Belfour's got the Vezinas, but I don't really see what CuJo has over Lundqvist at this point besides longevity. Regardless, I was more offendeded by the idea that we have no great goalies anymore.

And that is why we don't see you on the history board very often.

I post here a decent amount actually, but I appreciate the welcome.

 

[seventieslord]

I post here a decent amount actually, but I appreciate the welcome.

I like your avatar, and you came back and backed up your statement, so good on you. Consider the matter closed.

 

[Hardyvan123]

There have been changes, as described already, but to me they are so much less pronounced than the changes from the 80s to the 90s, or from the 70s to the 80s.

Fully agreed and it makes me wonder how the game will like in the 2020's and beyond.

Hopefully the shootout will be gone or minimized by then.

 

[straka91*]

Men league to wussy league to almost no contact league

 

[jkrx]

I'd say that, so far, Lundqvist has put up consistable stronger seasons than Belfour when it comes to playing for an average to above average team. Belfour didn't exactly turn heads when Chicago started to decline. He wept a bit when being traded to Sharks and posted horrible numbers and then cried with tears of joy when being signed by one of the best defensive teams in the league.

Belfour has better playoff runs (4) though. So I don't think the comparison is that ridiculous.

 

[mrhockey193195]

On top of goalies, I think the defensemen of the late 2000s are absolutely no comparison to the defensemen of the 90s:

Bourque, Stevens, Chelios, Leetch, Coffey, Murphy, Blake, etc.

versus

Lidstrom, Chara, Niedermayer, Pronger, Boyle, Zubov.


Not to derail the thread, but this is the reason why I don't necessarily rate Lidstrom as high as most on my all time list (I usually have him in the 6-9 range, behind the big 4 and Potvin, and battling with Kelly, Park and Robinson). Too many people just point to Lidstrom's 6 norris's and immediately say that he deserves to be a top 5 defenseman of all time. It needs to be taken into consideration that his competition was considerably worse than that of defenseman playing in the 70s, 80s, or 90s.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Shot-blocking has gotten much better.

So has the poke-check. I remember a lot more danglers being there in the 70s and 80s. Defensemen and players close the gaps so quickly now and use the poke check so well, that it is simply harder to dangle out there.

The league went through a cycle where there were few star goalies and many star defensemen to having many star goalies and few star defensemen, to now where is looking like there will be more star defensemen and fewer star goalies...

 

[Ishdul]

Goaltending has improved, but goaltenders overall are less skilled, are not?
I dont know.. Remembering 90´s and thinking about names like Belfour, Hasek, CuJo, Brodeur, Roy.. Today we have only Brodeur. Maybe by improving goaltending overall became gap so small, that fewer goalies can reach the extra level and make gap between them and rest of the NHL bigger.
What do you think?
Are these things in some relations or not?

Couldn't you have said the same in the 80's? No one outside of Roy was a First Team All-Star at goalie more than once and he came in very late. Guys like Smith and Fuhr were Hall of Famers but they weren't seen as among the very best players in the game the way Hasek, Brodeur and Roy have been. I also think it's an early call to make since there has been a changing of the guard. A guy like Lundqvist might have steady but unspectacular career now but maybe he hasn't hit his peak yet and wins 4 Vezinas or something. Or maybe Miller replicates last year's numbers a few times and is seen as a first ballot Hall of Fame type. I think with Brodeur going out as a top notch player it creates a bit of a hole there but I don't necessarily think it's some indication that the superstar goalie is a thing of the past.

 

[Fredrik_71]

I do not think the skill gap is that big when comparing the 90s to the 00s. But a team from the 80s or earlier would have zero chance today. I hated the clutch and grab era but the players started to reach their potential then. Training, tactics, medical, professionalism, bigger talent pool and so on. The big difference is the rule change and as many already said the goalie equipment and the goalies them self.

/Cheers