Hockey Countries compared to Soccer Countries

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Gwyddbwyll

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Dec 24, 2002
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Cool thread.

The two comparisions that have been absolutely spot on for me have been Brazil-Russia. It sounded odd at first but made so much sense when you thought about the players. The other one was Finland - England. Hard working respected opponents that just lack a little elite class.

Canada-Germany just doesnt seem right considering how poor the Germans are now, especially in their depth. Although Canada is comparable in regard, Brazil isnt right either. My choice would be to compare them to the France of today (not of the past). France's football squad is extremely deep, extremely versatile, their players have won all the major European club trophies, and they have the elite players to go with it. Also the only team ever to hold both the WC and the EC. Like Canada, France could put out 2nd and 3rd very competitive teams.

I'll just add Cryuff is not indisputably the greatest European. He might be if you're Dutch but not for the rest of us.

Its also not a sure thing Holland have gone deeper more often. England, when they lose in the World Cup its almost always to the actual winner (I think only one time have they lost to a team that didnt go on to win the Cup)

And Slimo - you really need to get up to date on the US football team. Its a long way from when its best players just sat on the bench on minor European teams. In England for example there are more American first choice goalies than English. In fact the best comparision for the US hockey team might be the US football team. Both have made great advances in the last 20 years, have some high quality young players coming through.
 

JVR

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Stevex said:
I'll just add Cryuff is not indisputably the greatest European. He might be if you're Dutch but not for the rest of us.

I thought the same but I didn't write anything because I thought it might be my German bias against anything Dutch, lol!

To be honest I am too young to decide wheather Beckenbauer, Pélé, Cryuff is the best, I have never seen them play, just replays of classic WC games, but I can't judge them on 10 games or so.

The German team of 1972, 1974 were as dominant as France is today but both aren't comparable to Canada because Canada has always been and will always be seen as the No1 as Brazil imo.
 

Habs Icing

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Sampe said:
I can't think of a hockey player to compare to Johan Cruyff; someone sublimely skilled and incredibly versatile. Kharlamov had the skill but lacked the versatility. Any help here?



Ignila?
 

OC Kings Fan 24

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Hold on a minute. If you compare Lemieux to Maradona you probably either dont know anything about soccer or hockey. Maradona got away with murder on the soccer field. Referres always looked the other way. Theres a little incident called "The hand of God" 86 world cup in Mexico City. Preety much grabbed the ball with his hands and put it on his foot. If soccer was a fair sport ie, if money wasnt involved in the officiating part of it, Maradona wouldnt be half the player people think he is ......
 

Sampe

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OC Kings Fan 24 said:
Hold on a minute. If you compare Lemieux to Maradona you probably either dont know anything about soccer or hockey. Maradona got away with murder on the soccer field. Referres always looked the other way. Theres a little incident called "The hand of God" 86 world cup in Mexico City. Preety much grabbed the ball with his hands and put it on his foot. If soccer was a fair sport ie, if money wasnt involved in the officiating part of it, Maradona wouldnt be half the player people think he is ......

Are you serious?
 

Strizzi

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OC Kings Fan 24 said:
If soccer was a fair sport ie, if money wasnt involved in the officiating part of it, Maradona wouldnt be half the player people think he is ......
Wrong. Have you ever seen him play other than in the incident you're referring to? Of course he always tried to bend the rules (like many others too btw.), but his vision and creativity with the ball have not been matched by any other player ever.
 

beckis

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Jun 3, 2004
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hand of god

hmm the hand of god ... was against England ....

and he went after a high bouncing ball against the goalie ... and jumped up and "put" his hand above his head to reach it before the goalie .....
i remember watching the game and thinking damn he can jump high to :)

then after a few replays ... you saw his hand .....
the ref missed it ... but so did most people watching on tv to ......

maradona was so great .... man he did things you could not believe .....

and to say he got away with murder ??

hmmm wc in 82 ? anyone saw that ?
thats when he was supposed to get his breakthrough .....
he was kicked down everytime he got the ball ......
the refs did not "help" him out the least ... in 86 they played in argentina .... and the refs would have been killed if they did not call the things people did to him ....

and i am from sweden :)
 

Ajacied

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Stevex said:
I'll just add Cryuff is not indisputably the greatest European. He might be if

Cruijff got named the European Soccer player of the century a few years ago. Chosen by a panel of highly respective soccer anylists and experts who know even more about the game of soccer than you and me combined. He pretty much is the undisputed top European player of all time. Maybe you're judging him on the number of Cups he has won, which is understandable but plain out wrong. Winning Cups has nothing to do with one player, it's a team game. However, Cruijff was greatly responsible getting the Dutch to their first WC final ever (a team that got named the best of he tournament) and finishing 3rd in the European Championship thereafter. Furhter more, on club level, he pretty much goes unmatched, winning the Dutch League title a record 9 times (eight with Ajax, one with Feyenoord), also winning the Spannish Primiera Division with Barçalona in 1974. He won the League Cup 7 times, another nearly impossible accomplishment to match. And he won the European Cup for teams 4 times, and the World Cup once.

His personal awards aren't too bad either:

- Finishing as the top scorer of the League, twice
- 5 time winner of the best soccer player in the Dutch league
- 3 time European soccer player of the year
- Got named best player of the WC in 1974
- Twice being named athlete of the year
- Twice being named American player of the year
- Got named the best manager in the world (1987)
- Winning the world coach of the year award, twice
- Dutch soccer player of the century (1998)
- European soccer player of the century (1999)
 

Sampe

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Modano = Dud said:
Cruijff got named the European Soccer player of the century a few years ago. Chosen by a panel of highly respective soccer anylists and experts who know even more about the game of soccer than you and me combined. He pretty much is the undisputed top European player of all time.

Just because he came on top of *one* list doesn't mean the selection was undisputed. I've seen plenty of lists with Beckenbauer ahead of Cruyff and if we consider Di Stefano a European, well, I've seen him ranked ahead of Pelé and Maradona themselves.
 

Ajacied

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Sampe said:
Just because he came on top of *one* list doesn't mean the selection was undisputed. I've seen plenty of lists with Beckenbauer ahead of Cruyff and if we consider Di Stefano a European, well, I've seen him ranked ahead of Pelé and Maradona themselves.

This is an official list published by the FIFA. I could make a list that has van basten at #1 as well, but it doesn't carry any credibility.
 

Gwyddbwyll

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Cruyff is a great player, I have no problem with that. However I think you may need to check the meaning of "indisputable".

There is Di Stefano (my choice), Puskas, Beckenbauer, Bobby Moore, Eusebio, Platini, Zidane and van Basten.

Incidentially could you provide a link to this FIFA list? I could only find a single World list and on it, Beckenbauer is ahead of Cruyff. Additionally, in the Internet award, Cruyff didnt even make the top 5 Europeans and was beaten by van Basten. I think there's enough right there on "credible" lists to say it isnt indisputable.
 

Ajacied

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Stevex said:
Cruyff is a great player, I have no problem with that. However I think you may need to check the meaning of "indisputable".

There is Di Stefano (my choice), Puskas, Beckenbauer, Bobby Moore, Eusebio, Platini, Zidane and van Basten.

Incidentially could you provide a link to this FIFA list? I could only find a single World list and on it, Beckenbauer is ahead of Cruyff. Additionally, in the Internet award, Cruyff didnt even make the top 5 Europeans and was beaten by van Basten. I think there's enough right there on "credible" lists to say it isnt indisputable.

Aside from Di Stefano and Beckenbauer, neither of those are close at Cruijff's level. Furthermore, the only list that counts is the official one, cause I too have seen several over the years, and believe it or not, some had Cruijff at #1. van Basten above Cruijff is quite laughable to say the least, (van Basten was voted 10th on the list), and I am Dutch, I should know.

Haven't been able to provide a link to the official list, but I'll continue looking for it.
 

Slime

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Stevex said:
And Slimo - you really need to get up to date on the US football team. Its a long way from when its best players just sat on the bench on minor European teams. In England for example there are more American first choice goalies than English.

Hmm... is that really true? I guess I'm living too much in the past. :blush: Sorry, cause I didn't want to underrate the US soccer team, I really want them to be a competitive team.
 

mach777

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Norseman said:
Canada = Germany

I think Gary Lineker said it best:
"Football is a very simple game. For 90 minutes 22 men go running after the ball and at the end the Germans win".

that is just an awesome quote! :jump: :lol:
 

ES

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Feb 14, 2004
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Finland
Canada=France
Usually one of the biggest favourites.

Russia=Brazil
Skillful team with good history

Sweden=Italy
Lots of famous names, pointed on defense.

USA=Spain
Good team but not the usual winner.

Finland=England
Popularity in own country, only one big win

Czech=Netherlands
Not so big on size but good team in both.

Slovakia=Portugal
Teams with a boom lately
 

Dr.HelmutKohl

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Stevex said:
Cool thread.

The two comparisions that have been absolutely spot on for me have been Brazil-Russia. It sounded odd at first but made so much sense when you thought about the players. The other one was Finland - England. Hard working respected opponents that just lack a little elite class.

Canada-Germany just doesnt seem right considering how poor the Germans are now, especially in their depth. Although Canada is comparable in regard, Brazil isnt right either. My choice would be to compare them to the France of today (not of the past). France's football squad is extremely deep, extremely versatile, their players have won all the major European club trophies, and they have the elite players to go with it. Also the only team ever to hold both the WC and the EC. Like Canada, France could put out 2nd and 3rd very competitive teams.

I'll just add Cryuff is not indisputably the greatest European. He might be if you're Dutch but not for the rest of us.

Its also not a sure thing Holland have gone deeper more often. England, when they lose in the World Cup its almost always to the actual winner (I think only one time have they lost to a team that didnt go on to win the Cup)

And Slimo - you really need to get up to date on the US football team. Its a long way from when its best players just sat on the bench on minor European teams. In England for example there are more American first choice goalies than English. In fact the best comparision for the US hockey team might be the US football team. Both have made great advances in the last 20 years, have some high quality young players coming through.

Hey, dunno if somebody already mentioned, but the bold phrase is not true. Germany won the EC in '72 and the WC in '74. So they held both titles 26 years before the French did :D

But I highly agree to the italic phrase. Cruyff is surely the best soccer player ever from the Netherlands, but to place him in the top5 worldwide is ridiculous.
 

Digger

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Dr.HelmutKohl said:
Hey, dunno if somebody already mentioned, but the bold phrase is not true. Germany won the EC in '72 and the WC in '74. So they held both titles 26 years before the French did :D

But I highly agree to the italic phrase. Cruyff is surely the best soccer player ever from the Netherlands, but to place him in the top5 worldwide is ridiculous.

I guess this is a little bit unfair because Cruyff definetly is one of the best players ever. I don't care if he's dutch or whatever. He really was that good!
 

InstantFunk

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Slime said:
Hmm... is that really true? I guess I'm living too much in the past. :blush: Sorry, cause I didn't want to underrate the US soccer team, I really want them to be a competitive team.

It's easy to overlook the US Soccer team, especially considering the fact that they came in dead last in the 1998 World Cup (which included a loss to Iran...not good). But the fact remains that they have undergone some serious improvement in the last 10 years. They lost to Germany in the quarterfinals in the 2002 Cup, 1-0. The US had some big victories in that cup, including a win over a highly touted Portugal team, and an awesome win over Mexico to open the second round. On top of that, the US does have some great talent playing in the English Premier league (albeit mostly goalies only). Brad Friedel won the award for best goaltender in the premier league a couple of years ago, Casey Keller has been holding his own for quite some time, and now Tim Howard is starting for Man U. I think one of the reasons why you don't see many of the field players in the foreign leagues is that the MLS is making a strong attempt to try and keep the best US players in the US league, so as to make the MLS a stronger league over time. That's why you see guys like Landon Donovan and now Freddy Adu signing deals to stay in the US. The goal for US soccer here is to develop a strong brand of US football that will enable them to compete on the world stage. The 2002 cup was the first time I can ever remember the US team having a "style" of play, and while the US may not be able to repeat their quarterfinal appearance in the next cup, I think it's only a matter of time (2-4 World Cups) until they start to make some semifinal and final appearances.
 

beckis

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hmm well the only way i see the US make a great impact is if either they work with the leagues in europe or ... hmm they do as it is in the other sports hockey/basketball/baseball and create a league that has the best players ......

i think they should try and work something out like the UEFA championships they need to play the best team/players or they wont get any much better ......

its been tryed before .... ala the 70:s and they got pele and a few others .... hmmm they went over to get some "easy" money ..... in the end of their careers ...

anyway ... hoping for some improvement for you guys :yo:
 

Ajacied

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ES said:
Canada=France
Usually one of the biggest favourites.

Russia=Brazil
Skillful team with good history

Sweden=Italy
Lots of famous names, pointed on defense.

USA=Spain
Good team but not the usual winner.

Finland=England
Popularity in own country, only one big win

Czech=Netherlands
Not so big on size but good team in both.

Slovakia=Portugal
Teams with a boom lately

Mix Spain with Holland and you're quite accurate..
 

psycho_dad*

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Rabid Ranger said:
I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say here, especially when it comes to soccer. Are you saying the U.S. is worse than Finland in soccer or what? :help:

Well it seems the poster is saying that, and I agree with him totally. U.S is worse than Finland in soccer.
 

Slick Nick

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Russia=Russia

In the same year, we lost to Latvia in hockey, and to Albania in football...we simply are russians! Look at my avatar, what did you expect?

«Canada=France
Usually one of the biggest favourites.» whaaa? France, usually favorite?
 
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